Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

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Fringe Wizard
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Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by Fringe Wizard » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:59 am

I have 3 partitions on my hard-drive, two are utterly screwed up, and Linux Mint is working sort of but full of problems such as:

>audio doesn't work most of them time and when it does, it's still messed up and will do things like play only through one side of headset, or not through the headset at all... randomly changes when I open other programs or mint goes in and out of sleep.
>sometimes my laptop goes into sleep, and then Linux Mint can never wake up again from it, so I have to power it down and lose everything and restart
>wireless networking is shit, sometimes lose the signal, the rest of the time it's incredibly slow... it's a very new / advanced network card btw
>I have a 4k monitor and games and video both when played there's this weird stutter thing where like half of an image is loaded at once and the other half isn't, I don't know what it is exactly but it's annoying
>various problems with the cinnamon UI which are further complicated by 4k resolution
>lots and lots of other problems with everything

So I've taken all my files and put them on a thumbstick and I'm thinking of just wiping out all my partitions and starting again. If I do this though, should I just Linux Mint 17.2 or 17.3? If I use 17.3, should I wait for it to come out of beta, or should I just ignore that it's in beta still and go ahead and use that and hope maybe doing so fixes some of my problems?

My laptop is an Alienware 17-R2 but every single problem it has and I've researched and tried to fix have been around for at least 5 or more years. None of the problems are new and most of the patches/fixes are half-assed and get things only barely functioning.

I don't know what I should do...
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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by konjad » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:32 am

Install 17.3 if you wish, beta will have only minor issues that should be fixed with the following updates. DO NOT install Cinnamon, it's a new and fairly unstable and far from being done user interface. It's default in Mint only because the same developers make it, however, you are better off using any of the alternatives (but I think Xfce won't work well with 4k as well. I don't know about MATE and I would suspect KDE to work, but please find the information on your own before installation, I only take a guess).

As for audio and wifi, I think these are drivers issues, and Mint won't fix it nor soon nor ever. Either find linux drivers if they exist or try some hack around Wine (the latter will be a pain in the ass). I have no idea what audio or wireless hardware you have, maybe it's a good idea to look around webbrowsers and check if anyone already found a solution. Don't expect the new Mint version to fix any of these.

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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by Ceilidh2 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:10 am

Install 17.2. The upgrade to 17.3 will be trivial.

I don't understand what Konjad's problem with Cinnamon is, and I'm not sure he should be posting such comments on this Forum.
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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by j03k3rr » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:45 am

@Fringe Wizard
I'm no linux expert but for wifi issues, I'd blame the kernel. Upgrade yours perhaps?
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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by Pjotr » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:04 am

By all means try the bèta of 17.3: minor issues only. And by all means install the Cinnamon edition: Cinnamon is a fine, mature desktop with hardly any issues. Has been so for years. A winner. :)
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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by Cosmo. » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:50 am

Although LM 17.3 appears to be rather stable, it is a beta. And beta means in general, not meant to be used in a productive system. If the latest beta version would be judged by the developers as stable, it would likely be released as stable version already.

Taken from the experience in the past, it will most likely not take much time, until the final release of 17.3 Cinnamon and Mate will be out. Perhaps a week, perhaps a few weeks later. So I would be patient for now.

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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by Alyana » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:38 am

Ceilidh2 wrote:Install 17.2. The upgrade to 17.3 will be trivial
Will there be any advantage from an installation of the final 17.3 release over the upgrade from 17.2 to 17.3?

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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by Cosmo. » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:46 am

From what is known at this time: No. Upgrades (from 17 or 17.1 -> 17.1 respectively 17.2) are known as working flawlessly.

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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by Alyana » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:56 am

ok thanks. The reason I am asking is this post from clem in the news section of the 17.3 cinnamon beta release, post #33
...The second option is much easier, go back to 17.2 and upgrade to 17.3. When 17.3 is stable, you’ll see an option to upgrade to it via the Update Manager. That will upgrade the tools, the Cinnamon desktop etc etc.. but it won’t upgrade the stack. So you’ll basically keep the same hardware support as in 17.2 but with the new features
After reading this post I thought that maybe if you install 17.3 fresh you get better or different hardware support compared to upgrading an existing 17.2 installation.

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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by kc1di » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:33 am

my hardware is not well supported in 17.3 beta as yet so I'm taking Clem's advise and waiting for 17.3 stable.
and will then do the upgrade.

I think that is sound advice if your talking a machine that is critical to business, that is sound advice.
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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by Pjotr » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:41 am

Yes, waiting is the safest choice. :P
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Post by acejavelin » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:44 am

17.3 "Beta" is actually an RC (Release Candidate) and not a real beta... The devs change the nomenclature because many people didn't understand RC, but it stable, I have been using it with no issues for a few days.

I also am puzzled by konjad's post about Cinnamon, it is an excellent, stable DE.

OP, if you can get a clean install of Mint working, post here with your issues like the sound not working and we can try to assist you. That being said, as much as I like Mint, use and recommend it, sometimes trying another distro for troublesome hardware can help, such as Fedora or OpenSUSE, and sometimes it won't, but it couldn't hurt to try something different just to see.

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Re:

Post by Cosmo. » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:11 am

acejavelin wrote:The devs change the nomenclature because many people didn't understand RC
Exactly, there where misunderstandings, but not in your sense. When 17.2 RC has been released Clem wrote
Clem wrote:RC stands for “Release Candidate”, it’s a “Beta” so to speak (its quality is almost stable but it’s yet to meet user feedback and it’s released for the specific purpose of finding bugs prior to releasing a stable release)
I don't know, how this could be said clearer. If a user is not interested in the specific purpose, (s)he can of course install it anyway, but then (s)he shall not complain, if (s)he gets into trouble. And obviously the OP wanted an advice about just that matter. IMO the question, if one should wait until the stable release, is already the answer.

The reason, that LM 17.3 Cinnamon may have better or worse support for a given hardware, may be caused by the differences in the OS (e.g. Cinnamon), but it may probably be caused by the fact, that LM 17.3 gets installed by default with another kernel. So updating or downgrading the kernel might help. In case, that LM 17.3 gets installed by upgrading from an older LM version of the 17-series, the kernel does not get updated automatically (at least I believe so, as this was the case in the previous upgrades); consequently in this regard the system will run with all positives or negatives of the older kernel.

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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by Fringe Wizard » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:41 am

I took all my files I wanted to keep, put them on my other thumbstick, then wiped out my 3 partitions and put Linux Mint 17.3 then went through the laborious process of fixing the hundreds of little things that STILL aren't fixed in Mint and ricing everything again.

Overall everything is running a LOT better and faster now with just Linux Mint only on the computer although I am rather disappointed in some stupid things that STILL haven't been fixed to this day that I have to go and do every time I put a new copy of Linux Mint onto anything. I still need to test some more things though before any final conclusions.

Fonts still suck in Linux Mint, I guess it's not going to get better until Linux Mint 18, and shift screencapping is still broken by default, and Firefox for Linux Mint has a really crap upload dialog with no thumbnail grids still.
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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by Pjotr » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:00 am

Fringe Wizard wrote:(....) the laborious process of fixing the hundreds of little things that STILL aren't fixed in Mint and ricing everything again. (....)

I am rather disappointed in some stupid things that STILL haven't been fixed to this day that I have to go and do every time I put a new copy of Linux Mint onto anything.(.....)

Fonts still suck in Linux Mint, I guess it's not going to get better until Linux Mint 18, and shift screencapping is still broken by default, and Firefox for Linux Mint has a really crap upload dialog with no thumbnail grids still.
Somehow I don't think that Linux Mint is the right operating system for you. :shock:
If I were you, I'd ask my money back.

Anyway: fonts: install ttf-mscorefonts-installer.
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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by Fringe Wizard » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:15 am

I know what that package is and already have it you know <offensive remark removed>. All that does is add extra fonts, it doesn't change that font rendering in Linux Mint is still terrible.

Edit: in case you don't realize btw I know how to fix everything I listed there, it's just sad it's not fixed by default.
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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by Oscar799 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:20 am

Descending into personal abuse is not a good idea
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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by mike acker » Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:17 pm

...The second option is much easier, go back to 17.2 and upgrade to 17.3. When 17.3 is stable, you’ll see an option to upgrade to it via the Update Manager. That will upgrade the tools, the Cinnamon desktop etc etc.. but it won’t upgrade the stack. So you’ll basically keep the same hardware support as in 17.2 but with the new features
hmmmmmmm

Me will update to 17.3

I have a brand new 2TB WD Black drive on the table waiting for 17.3 to clear Beta....
which is better: install a totally fresh system -- or -- based on this message I'll be able to simply accept the 17.3 update on the Software Update Manager ( this would save a lot of backup and restore time )
¡Viva la Resistencia!

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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by Pjotr » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:02 pm

If you don't mind the new default kernel of 17.3 (in fact, if you actually want that), and you don't want to wait for the official upgrade facility, you can already upgrade like this: https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... e-terminal
(item 2, right column)

At your own risk. :mrgreen:

The safe, cautious and most sensible approach is of course, to wait until the upgrade path has been made available officially.
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Re: Should I wait for Linux Mint 17.3 to stop being in beta?

Post by richmorehave » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:29 pm

Does anyone know the ETA of 17.3?

Who is in the know? Are we talking 1 week away or 1 month away?

How does the team feel the beta is going?

I was looking for a thanksgiving surprise. :)
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