Passwords: Isn't ONCE enough?

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Fred Barclay
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Re: Passwords: Isn't ONCE enough?

Post by Fred Barclay » Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:54 pm

Pjotr wrote: I repeat: it's not the question that causes flames (although I think it shouldn't be answered). It's the attitude of the asker.
Compare these two users who ask the same question:

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is this Vista again? I thought you people had it all figured out!!! Everyone says "Linux is better than Windows"--well then PROVE IT! I shouldn't have to type in my password 15 times a day just to browser email. This is what's wrong with Linux. No wonder it never conquered the desktop!!! All you Linux fanboys keep your toy OS in your parents' basement, but fix your problems with your precious Linux before you try to go mainstream again! And while you're at it, don't tell me to use the command prompt! This isn't the 1980s, people!
At Least Windows Makes Sense! Now that Windows 10 is FREE, Linux has nothing going for it!
Ima Whiner


I'm trying Linux for the first time and I really don't like having to type my password in so many times. Is there a way to reduce the number of times I have to do this, or is there a reason that it's set up this way?
Thank you!
Ima Newbie2

See a difference? The first one (I've seen in various iterations a dozen times over) will get no useful replies, the second one will at least get a friendly explanation why authentication behaves in a certain way. Someone might even reply with how to reduce the number of authentication requests while only lowering security slightly (though I agree with Pjotr that I, at any rate, will not explain how to do this on the Mint forums, which are geared towards newbies who haven't learned much about Linux yet. If it were somewhere like the Arch forums where the OP isn't going to be a newbie and understands Linux, then I might reply...)
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Re: Passwords: Isn't ONCE enough?

Post by coffee412 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:18 pm

I have to agree that not discussing how to defeat password protection should not be talked about in the forums. There are just certain things that should never be done and this is one of them. Once more, Someone searching might come across the single post in the thread and take it as a cool idea to 'make their lives easier'. Of course nothing is farther from the truth.

There are just those kinds of users out there that just do not get it. They have no idea what could happen and when it does your sure to read about it here at some time in the form of "Linux is terrible" or "Where did all my files go?".

I wonder if the the OP has found away yet to remove the locks from his house and car ? :wink:
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Cosmo.
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Re: Passwords: Isn't ONCE enough?

Post by Cosmo. » Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:47 pm

chipps61 wrote:This week's distrowatch comments, #38 and #50. Nothing further to say.
It would make sense to not only link something, but also to read. In comment # 50 - which you commented yourself with "nothing further to say" it reads:
People should be allowed to make their own informed decisions on how to run their system.
Nobody here needs to give you the allowance to do run your system as you like; you are absolutely free to do what you want, whether it is silly or not. The sentence "people should be allowed" insinuates something, what does not exist.
This cry for "freedom" or "be allowed" gets a farce, if you ask for something and you want to rule what experienced users have to reply.

So in reality the lack of "freedom" and "allowance" is on the site of those, who want a recipe for something, where they either are not able to understand the consequences and relationships or are to lazy, to investigate in something, which cannot be found on every website for good reasons.

Saying the opposite is a distortion of facts.

chipps61

Re: Passwords: Isn't ONCE enough?

Post by chipps61 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:00 pm

The world was certainly a different place when I started with Linux, back around 1995 when I administered a Slackware 3.0 box for our company – all the way back at kernel 1.2.13. Secure, that release and kernel were not… and nobody particularly cared back in those days, at least until you got rootkitted, or your domain blacklisted as a spammer due to Sendmail’s default (at the time) of having mail relaying turned on, or any number of other things. But I sure have fond memories of that system, I had a blast with it – that lone little 386 box was our sole internet server for years, and went many months between reboots.

Over time, much has changed and much has been tightened up. Today things are different, to the point of overkill, in my opinion. But I feel it is important to remember that this “Linux Way” to which many of you hold dear is nothing more than a set of defaults, set by your choice of distribution, to an extremely configurable and complex system.

While I certainly understand the mentality of “Don’t touch the security defaults!”, I will never agree with it. I find it hard to sit by and say nothing every time I see a thread like this, because setting my system up the way I want it to behave is something I’m fairly passionate about, have been doing for decades, and will probably continue to do until I pass into whatever’s next.

But many times it simply isn’t worth it to state your opinion, advice, or question in one of these forums, when the subject matter touches any level of security at all. We all know and see here what happens when you do, especially if you don’t word it carefully.

For the newbies reading this, know that there are ways to accomplish what you’re looking for - you can run your system as securely or openly as you want, nobody cares about the ramifications of it except you, and perhaps the vocal members who believe that changing security in any way is bad for Linux. Nothing you can do about that, live with it. It's your system, just be prepared to start over from scratch if you muck something up beyond all repair during your learning and experimentation.

Changing things will require research, which you will be better off having done anyway. Be considered and careful with your security questions and the wording of them – they hit a nerve with many otherwise very helpful forum members, and there’s probably a good reason for that – even if my old eyes see it in a fuzzy way at best.

I will say that if you are not comfortable with a command line, or find Linux in any way intimidating to configure or change, you’re better off leaving things like security and passwords as much alone as possible. On the other hand, if you’re into it, and don’t mind potential reinstalls from scratch as you live and learn and go against the currently established grain (something I'm a big fan of), I say keep your stuff backed up, dig in and go for it. You’ll have nothing to lose but time. I do hope you enjoy your time with Linux. It can be as much of an adventure as you want it to be.

That’s all I’ve got. You all have a good evening.

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Re: Passwords: Isn't ONCE enough?

Post by Moem » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:07 pm

chipps61 wrote:While I certainly understand the mentality of “Don’t touch the security defaults!”, I will never agree with it.
I've never read it that way. I've always interpreted it as "Don’t touch the security defaults until you know what you're doing!", which is a lot closer to your opinion as stated here.
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Re: Passwords: Isn't ONCE enough?

Post by Fred Barclay » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:33 pm

chipps61: while you may be right on certain aspects, remember that:
1. Linux Mint is a distro aimed at newbies, or rather, user-friendly enough that it's great for newbies. Since these inexperienced users make up a large part of our userbase, this really isn't the place to discuss things that can lead to potentially disastrous consequences for said newbies. In fact, this is expressedly prohibited by the forum rules, Section I. 5b
Suggesting commands that could harm or destroy another user's system, even in jest, is strictly off-limits.
Even you admit that messing with security controls is dangerous and can "harm or destroy" another user's system ;)

2. Linux (and computers) nowadays aren't like those of the 90s. I'm fairly conservative and cautious on my own machine, for example, yet if someone were to gain root access to my computer they could steal my personal identity, some private information I don't want released, my GPG keys, and many (though not all) of my passwords. For someone else, their bank information, financial info, and government-issued IDs (such as the American's Social Security Numbers, which as I understand are pretty important) could all be stolen in a successful hack, due to a user running with high privileges. Not a Good Thing!
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Re: Passwords: Isn't ONCE enough?

Post by Old Ruler » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:13 pm

I got quite a lesson in system security on a BBS early nineties. I didn't have a clue about command lines, so I really shouldn't have been trying to learn on someone else's system. I knew how to copy and paste though, and I inadvertently pasted in a fairly large document which was in the paste buffer :oops:

I didn't realise what could have happened, and why it didn't, until years later. I got to know the sysop and he later managed Internet services for the company for whom he worked. They used FreeBSD and I developed a great interest in that very fine OS, from about version 3.0...

Something they used to say, in regard to the copy[left|right] question, about FreeBSD - was that it's "copy-centre". You can take it to the copy centre and make as many as you like.

I like fault finding. Don't get many problems with my own systems, so when I haven't got much else going on I like to try to find solutions to others' (technical) problems. Having said that; I do have a weird thing with my steering wheel which I should get down to fixing. It's somewhere between kernel and X and seems to apply to all ubuntu 15.04 derivatives and newer. I'll ask if I get stuck. Sorry to have gone a bit OT.

deleted

Re: Passwords: Isn't ONCE enough?

Post by deleted » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:31 pm

Well.. if you look at all the posts that say "mint boots to black screen after I ...." or "I accidentally did.... after I modified..." or "mint no longer boots..." once is definitely not enough. If it is enough for you, then you'll know how to make it only ask once when you log in. Otherwise, the question is moot.
-H

chipps61

Post by chipps61 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:47 pm

Fred: I actually didn't intend to say it that way at all at the end of your point #1, but these are the downfalls of trying to carefully word a considered response and having it taken the wrong way. I've kind of stated through all this that that's why I don't normally post on here. I do stand by that last long post, I may have not made my point as eloquently or generically as I could have, but I tried. If what I said was against forum rules, my apologies.

Old Ruler: I ran a multiline bbs myself in the 90s. Learned a lot of life lessons, and the programming skills I use in my job today while doing so.

All: I truly was not trying to start anything here or step on forum rules. I feel like I've made my point, and I'm good with that.

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