It's not ready to replace Windows yet

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Yownanymous
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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by Yownanymous » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:46 pm

Just read this. Heh, typical idiotic Windows user. Now I remember when I first came to Linux, it was through Wubi, and it had to be one of the simplest things ever. Now, what happens with Windows is that everything doesn't "just work", Windows just masks where it doesn't work, whereas Linux doesn't in the hope that it'll prompt you to do something about it. Basically, apathetic people choose Windows because it's easier for them to take the workings of their OS for granted and then wonder why it breaks down...
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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by Husse » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:55 am

I have not come upon this topic before and hokkers999 clearly passed the line for what's appropriate in this forum
This user will be warned but I won't lock the topic unless more stupid comments are added
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emorrp1
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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by emorrp1 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:33 am

Husse wrote:I have not come upon this topic before and hokkers999 clearly passed the line for what's appropriate in this forum
This user will be warned but I won't lock the topic unless more stupid comments are added
Hmm, seems you have - http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 45#p128169 :roll:
EDIT: everyone's only human, obviously, Husse gets much more right than wrong (and he gets anything that matters right which is the main thing)
Last edited by emorrp1 on Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by Fred » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:13 pm

WOW... I can't believe it. Husse made a mistake? And in only 15,000 plus posts too! You would think that in only 15,000 or so posts he could remember them all and get it right. :-)

This kind of sloppiness is just unacceptable Husse. No gold star for you today my friend. I would say to bed without supper too, but I am not sure you ever have time to sleep. Besides, you need your nourishment. :-)

EDIT: @emorrp1... It is always wise and useful to try to keep things in perspective. :-)

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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by emorrp1 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:50 pm

lol, I love heavy sarcasm, it does seem unreal what Husse does for the forum. I musn't have made my post clearly (wrong smiley perhaps?), I was correcting a minor mistake (I am extremely pedantic, so this is normal for me), but I didn't intend for it to be taken especially seriously, sorry if it was taken this way.
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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by Husse » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:12 pm

@ Fred LOL
It's not the 15235 posts this one included - it's the fact that this topic is five pages :)
And i got p-ssed of this time too :)
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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by cebalrai » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:58 pm

My experience with Linux has been kind of unfortunate. About once per year I try it out, only to be frustrated by hardware that I can't get the OS to use correctly. Last year I was here trying to get help for monitor support (NEC FP955). After trying about 20 different things that nice, friendly people suggested, I gave up. None of them worked. I spent probably 8-10 hours on the thing before giving up. People that were helping me finally suggested emailing the devs to request that they officially support my monitor in the next release, but it didn't happen. :(

So here I am back a year later with a different computer, this time a Dell E1505 laptop. I cannot get the wireless connection to work after spending about three hours scanning forums all over the web for suggestions. Most of the time when I find a thread with possible solutions I'm too Linux illiterate to even understand how to actually do what they're suggesting.

Linux always looks so cool and I wish I could use it. And I always think that since I've got plenty of skill in Windows and access to Linux forums that I should be able to do some basic troubleshooting. But I can't...
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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by kei84 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:38 pm

Although Linux and Windows are both OS, you could say they are two completely different things. They both have advantages and disadvantages.

I don't think Windows is easier than Linux. Try formating Windows for example or using a firewall and antivirus.
What made me replace Windows for Linux was "control". Have you ever tried to remove Windows Media Player? It's my computer so I want to install and uninstall any program. The first time you install Windows it takes about 10 GB of your hd but 1 month later it's taking 30 GB. confused!?
In Linux you know in which folder you'll find what you want and it doesn't happen in Windows.

I am a designer and I use only opensource softwares to make all my projects especially Gimp, Krita and Inkscape. Somebody said in one of the posts that Photoshop it's not worth $ 200,00 and it's true. If it was $ 50,00 I would consider buying it but never for $ 200,00

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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by Husse » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:48 pm

@ cebalrai
Have you ever installed Windows from the ground - not some Dell special disk
I have - so many times that I don't really remember how many (Win98 and XP not Vista)
I tell you there are as many problems as you find when installing Linux but the normal computer user never installs Windows from the ground up - it's already installed with all the right drivers and tweaks for the hardware in place
Problems that you have to straighten out yourself when you install Linux
Post in the wifi section of the forum and include which version of Mint you use and the result of the command lspci in the terminal (l is a lower case L)
Someone - perhaps me - will help you, wifi has been much easier to get working
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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by cebalrai » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:07 pm

Yes I have built about a dozen computers and installed OEM versions of Windows on them. I've never had any problems at all, at least not ones that I couldn't fix easily. With Linux I consistently have problems with it not recognizing certain hardware. I find that the GUI in Windows is much easier to use for troubleshooting than having to type in all sorts of things in the Linux terminal.

Of course if I knew the language of Linux then it would probably be a lot easier. So the problem isn't necessarily Linux - but more that I simply have no idea how to use it. Learning Linux terminal commands is fairly difficult for the average person, and virtually impossible for many casual computer users.

I was able to basically teach myself the Windows interface by exploring the GUI. In Linux I apparently have to learn a whole new language from scratch. Having to learn all sorts of foreign commands and stuff for the terminal is a daunting task for a lot of people, including those with a fair amount of experience on computers.
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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by almigi » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:46 pm

How someone experiences GNU/Linux can very greatly per person and per distro. That's why it's entertaining when I see heated debates about Windows vs Linux. For me, Linux has always been a pleasure to use. However, I have hardware that is somewhat modern, an cable Internet connection with the cable modem connected to my computer (no wireless issues), and I stick with distros where ease of use is a priority.

What I like about Linux is the "culture" of respecting that you know what you want on your computer. For example, on my computer, which came with Windows Vista pre-installed. When I fired up Internet Explorer for the first time, I saw that the Yahoo toolbar was preinstalled. Internet Explorer has a search tool also which is similiar to the one in Firefox. I changed my default search engine from Yahoo to Google. What did I get? I got a pop up that warned me that I made a change to my browser's configuration, and it asked me if I wanted to "fix" it (i.e. go back to the default). That irritated me. I didn't break anything. Don't ask me if I want to fix it.

Also, I have a HP Deskjet printer. When I want to install the printer under Vista, I have to insert the CD-ROM that came with the printer. This installs the driver, and then runs an installer program. The installer program (if I chose the "easy (recommended)" option) installs a bunch of extra programs on my computer and makes me reset. The total process takes about 10 min.

With Linux, I just leave the printer turned on when I install a distro. Most distros detect my printer, and sure enough I have a working HP Deskjet printer after installation (or even on the LiveCD).

Just some of my thoughts...

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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by kansasnoob » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:46 pm

After about 1 1/2 years I can't imagine going back to Windows for surfing the net!

But I'm still multi-booting! Sometimes I need Windows & Gates, because others refuse to play unless you have it!

I'm currently running Win XP + Ubuntu 8.04.2 + Ubuntu 9.04 + Mint Gloria, and from time to time I need them all!

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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by kei84 » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:23 am

Change an configuration or uninstall a default program is a big problem in Windows.

In most cases, installing a printer or another device is easier in Linux. You don"t have to insert a CD or reboot your system.

And the command line is a little harder because most users are now used to only using mouse in Windows. Let's face it, average users use keybord only for sending e-mails or chating most of the time. Sometimes you have to open prompt in Windows to solve an issue and they don't know what to do. It didn't happen when we had Windows 3.1

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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by Seventh Reign » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:29 pm

I could not disagree with this 'rant' more. Linux is faster, easier to use, more stable, more customizable, uses less system resources, FREE, and is just better than Windows in every way except one. If you are a Die-Hard PC gamer that is the ONLY problem Linux has. And I believe that issue will be moot in less than 2 years time. Linux has advanced more in the past 2 years alone than Windows has from Win95 to 7.

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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by Fred » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:14 pm

This thread and threads like it are pretty much worthless. They are basically irrational rants. Well... wait a minute. That isn't completely true. I guess there is individual therapeutic value in verbalizing your frustrations. A stress reliever one might say. So I guess the opening sentence isn't entirely correct. In all honesty, as many of you know, I take the bait occasionally too and respond to the nonsense, just like many others. But when you actually step back and look at it, it is like two people arguing different topics together. One putting forth that the earth is flat and the other being adamant that the coffee bean crop in Brazil is going to be great this year! Trying to figure out the connection just makes my head hurt.

Let's take the topic. "It's not ready to replace Windows yet." If there was ever a false premise, this has got to be it. It's implied that that is a Linux goal. Wrong! It isn't, and never was intended to replace Windows, at least not by the people that count.

In order to be competitive with, or be a viable replacement for, Windows for the masses, there would have to be a whole different culture and infrastructure in place. None of the key groups actually responsible have ever even tried to put the appropriate infrastructure in place. Apparently the people that count don't give a fat happy about Linux being ready to replace Windows. :-)

What would it take? I'll list a few.

1) Fixed APIs. Not there for the kernel, tool chain, DEs, or X Window system.

2) Fixed and consistent file system infrastructure. Not there.

3) Fixed availability of specific tools and libraries. Nope.

These three things mean, no backward compatibility and no stable base for software vendors to build on. There goes your commercial software offerings. They would/will never be able to justify expending the resources necessary to keep up, even if they could.

As far as open source software, most projects can and do keep up but their offerings never have a chance to mature and stabilize the way Windows or Mac software does. Besides, they are usually moving at warp speed too.

4) Consistent feature set and look and feel over time. Again, not there.

Joe Six Pack takes at least 4 months to find the "Shut Down" button in the "Start Menu"! Most Linux aggregaters update the entire distribution, including the user software, every 6 months to a year. That is completely irrational if you are catering to the mass market. Your average Windows user isn't even used to the wallpaper yet, let alone mastered the system well enough to make it function without making his head hurt.

Just look at Windows XP. It has been around now for what, 8 years, more or less? And it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The standard to be compared to, met, and surpassed for success in the mass market. That is what the average user has finally become use to so that is what they want.

I say, let them have it. You see, I don't give a fat happy if Linux is ready to replace Windows yet either. The price is too high. The rewards too few. :-)

Fred
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Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.

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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by cebalrai » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:38 am

kei84 wrote:Change an configuration or uninstall a default program is a big problem in Windows.

In most cases, installing a printer or another device is easier in Linux. You don"t have to insert a CD or reboot your system.

And the command line is a little harder because most users are now used to only using mouse in Windows. Let's face it, average users use keybord only for sending e-mails or chating most of the time. Sometimes you have to open prompt in Windows to solve an issue and they don't know what to do. It didn't happen when we had Windows 3.1
What if I installed Mint while my Cannon printer wasn't connected? All I have is the driver with the Windows drivers (and crapware) on it. Will it auto detect?
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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by Lantesh » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:45 am

Fred wrote:I say, let them have it. You see, I don't give a fat happy if Linux is ready to replace Windows yet either. The price is too high. The rewards too few. :-)

Fred
I'd like to see Linux capture about 8% to 10% of the desktop market, and then flat line. That may be just enough for the hardware vendors to give us better support, but not quite enough to make us an attractive target for malware and virus's. Windows can have the mass market. We don't need it.

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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by emorrp1 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:49 am

Lantesh wrote:I'd like to see Linux capture about 8% to 10% of the desktop market, and then flat line. That may be just enough for the hardware vendors to give us better support, but not quite enough to make us an attractive target for malware and virus's. Windows can have the mass market. We don't need it.
If we were on slashdot right now, I'd mark that up as "Insightful"! I'd also add that that wouldn't make us as susceptible to social engineering, which is the unstoppable method of malware distribution.
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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by Husse » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:22 am

What if I installed Mint while my Cannon printer wasn't connected?
The first time it is connected it will be detected and a driver installed
For some printers - like my Brother DCP7010 - that driver is no good so I have to take a few steps extra but it's still easier than in Windows
I suddenly remember that it took some 20 minutes to install it in Win XP and not much else could be done in that time....
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Re: It's not ready to replace Windows yet

Post by markcynt » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:25 am

Fred wrote:Let's take the topic. "It's not ready to replace Windows yet." If there was ever a false premise, this has got to be it. It's implied that that is a Linux goal. Wrong! It isn't, and never was intended to replace Windows, at least not by the people that count.Fred
I'm not sure if this is an official Ubuntu position but according to this site it's an Ubuntu goal.

http://ubuntuindex.com/website/what-is-ubuntu/
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