How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

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ManTaRa
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How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by ManTaRa »

Previously in LM if I wanted to upgrade the kernel I would run "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" in the Terminal; since upgrading to LM 18 MATE I'm noticing that command is not retrieving the kernel updates . . . which are showing up in the GUI Software Services?? I tried the "sudo apt full-upgrade" yesterday, and again the kernel upgrades didn't show, but, they were there in the GUI updater . . . . Only last week I used the GUI updater to move up the kernel, and I ticked the "show kernel updates" (something like that) in the Software Sources GUI window . . . doesn't seem to have made any difference.

Certainly there is the GUI Updater option, but, a tad bit more fun to use the Terminal . . . but, wha happen, mon? Special secret handshake to get LM to update the kernels? I'm not trying to move to the Sid kernels, just update the current . . . possibly 4.4xxxxx??

TIA

MTR

Penn
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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by Penn »

Special secret handshake? A kernel update shows in GUI? How much less "special secret" can you get?

I'm on LMDE so it isn't there for me but unless something changed LM 18 and the other Ubuntu based versions have a GUI version for Kernels that aren't part of the more standard update method. Under "view" in the Update manager should be a way to look at, install and remove Kernels. A nice aspect of that is you can really see all the kernels available.

But just the last 2 days someone else bumped a thread for those who choose to ignore the recommendation to NOT use dist-upgrade in Mint with a possible solution. A person should pay heed to the disclaimer in the post. viewtopic.php?f=47&t=224968&hilit=cli+kernel+update

Curious question (and yes, I'm just curious), why do some people avoid GUI solutions that Mint offers like those solutions have leprosy?

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jimallyn
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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by jimallyn »

It is recommended that you NOT use apt-get dist-upgrade in Linux Mint. The proper way to install new kernels is to start the Update Manager, then click View, Linux kernels. Pick the kernel you wish to install, then click the Install button.
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ManTaRa
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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by ManTaRa »

Penn wrote: But just the last 2 days someone else bumped a thread for those who choose to ignore the recommendation to NOT use dist-upgrade in Mint with a possible solution. A person should pay heed to the disclaimer in the post. viewtopic.php?f=47&t=224968&hilit=cli+kernel+update

Curious question (and yes, I'm just curious), why do some people avoid GUI solutions that Mint offers like those solutions have leprosy?
@Penn: server issue, wiped my reply . . . back again. OK, thanks for the link to the other thread, I will check it, including the warning/disclaimer, etc. Sorta answered your question, following the linux "purist" tradition of eschewing the GUI for just about anything . . . but, historically in linux the various GUI options were not as thorough as using the Terminal . . . and were less "reliable." I developed the habit of using the Terminal . . . also a little more amusing.
jimallyn wrote:It is recommended that you NOT use apt-get dist-upgrade in Linux Mint. The proper way to install new kernels is to start the Update Manager, then click View, Linux kernels. Pick the kernel you wish to install, then click the Install button.
@jimallyn: OK, interesting, this is news that using the Terminal would be "not recommended" . . . which I guess would be LM "exclusive feature"??? Clearly so far it isn't working, but also no apt "error" report on the operation either, like the usual "command not found, and possible solution to the error, etc.

I still like working in the black . . . of the Terminal window . . . .

MTR

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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by jimallyn »

ManTaRa wrote:@jimallyn: OK, interesting, this is news that using the Terminal would be "not recommended" . . . which I guess would be LM "exclusive feature"??
I'm not sure that it's a Mint exclusive feature. Somebody posted the reason for it on the forums once, but I don't remember exactly what it was.
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ManTaRa
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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by ManTaRa »

jimallyn wrote:
ManTaRa wrote:@jimallyn: OK, interesting, this is news that using the Terminal would be "not recommended" . . . which I guess would be LM "exclusive feature"??
I'm not sure that it's a Mint exclusive feature. Somebody posted the reason for it on the forums once, but I don't remember exactly what it was.
@jimallyn:

Ah, well, I'm just catching on to this issue in LM, so from 17 to 18 there has been a change. Also, I have a few PPC apple units running various forms of 16.04 Xenial, and there "dist-upgrade" works to bring in the kernel updates . . . and if I want to go all sid on it, I can use "synaptic" to find the options that would work for my computers . . . and, use it, or just get the names and dependencies to run in the Terminal. Don't know if other distros are following this new LM style as well or not . . .

mtr

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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by Moem »

jimallyn wrote:
ManTaRa wrote:@jimallyn: OK, interesting, this is news that using the Terminal would be "not recommended" . . . which I guess would be LM "exclusive feature"??
I'm not sure that it's a Mint exclusive feature. Somebody posted the reason for it on the forums once, but I don't remember exactly what it was.
Quite simply: updating/upgrading through the terminal disregards the update levels as presented in the Mint Updater. As far as I know, those levels are indeed an exclusive Mint feature.
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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by jimallyn »

That sounds about right. Thanks, Moem.
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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by ManTaRa »

Moem wrote:
jimallyn wrote:
ManTaRa wrote:@jimallyn: OK, interesting, this is news that using the Terminal would be "not recommended" . . . which I guess would be LM "exclusive feature"??
I'm not sure that it's a Mint exclusive feature. Somebody posted the reason for it on the forums once, but I don't remember exactly what it was.
Quite simply: updating/upgrading through the terminal disregards the update levels as presented in the Mint Updater. As far as I know, those levels are indeed an exclusive Mint feature.
@Moem:

It's a bit more complicated than that "levels ignorance" idea . . . it seems to "ignore" the kernel updates . . . entirely; and as posted earlier is "not recommended" to use the Terminal to do them . . . i.e., it doesn't work. I checked the other thread and "scorp123" seems to have a "work around" on the problem, caveat "this may break your system" . . . .

mtr

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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by JeremyB »

I would use the Synaptic Package Manager and search for installed Packages with linux in the name and see which one includes the kernel image and headers. Post the result here

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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by AscLinux »

Curious question (and yes, I'm just curious), why do some people avoid GUI solutions that Mint offers like those solutions have leprosy?
Because doing it from CLI is easy. Just SSH into computer you need to upgrade and do it. Making remote X connections is more hassle.

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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by ManTaRa »

JeremyB wrote:I would use the Synaptic Package Manager and search for installed Packages with linux in the name and see which one includes the kernel image and headers. Post the result here
@JB:

Thanks for the suggestion . . . at work now . . . I'll check it later and post back, unless someone else gets there first . . . . Of course, the relative difference between synaptic and Updater is somewhat moot . . . .

mtr

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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by Penn »

AscLinux wrote:
Curious question (and yes, I'm just curious), why do some people avoid GUI solutions that Mint offers like those solutions have leprosy?
Because doing it from CLI is easy. Just SSH into computer you need to upgrade and do it. Making remote X connections is more hassle.
Did you even look at the Mint GUI I am referencing before responding? It's been about a year since I last did it on 17.2 but I didn't have to make remote X connections.

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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by jimallyn »

Penn wrote:I didn't have to make remote X connections.
If you were remote, you would have to. Not everybody operates their computers locally all the time.
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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by ManTaRa »

It seems that for some there is an added layer of effort to have to use the GUI to upgrade the kernel . . . which I tend to agree with . . . even though I have yet to explore SSH-ing . . . . Seems like for those who only use the GUI to do stuff then being able to use Updater is fine; but to make it so that the Terminal won't do basic kernel upgrades is only creating issues for those who use the Terminal--people who would tend to have more experience with linux . . . ???

mtr

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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by AscLinux »

Actually, I think was wrong. The simple fact is Mint is not for me, so I shouldn't be here complaining. Sorry, folks. Mint is a great distro and certainly has wide userbase, deservedly. It's me, I find it difficult to configure and maintain. I registered here because I had a custom keymap problem, and this problem is still unsolved. :( It seems there is no way to do what I want in Mint without hacking the system. I am a spoiled long time Gentoo user, Mint just does not cut it for me.

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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by jimallyn »

AscLinux wrote:The simple fact is Mint is not for me
Different strokes for different folks, you know. I suspect Gentoo is not for me!
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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by Penn »

jimallyn wrote:
Penn wrote:I didn't have to make remote X connections.
If you were remote, you would have to. Not everybody operates their computers locally all the time.
FYI - I understood he was talking about remote. It is entirely irrelevant to the conversation as it was before that interjection.

I fully understand sometimes CLI is the only logical or even possible way to do things. The original issue prompting the question is of a user refusing to use GUI in a situation that indicated he had access to the wider internet but not wanting to use point and click, just because..what?

I could be wrong, but the GUI for kernels wasn't designed for remote so I get it in that situation. I am referencing situations where GUI is adequate but some people seem to despise that existence. An example of simple GUI solution to avoid an issue just came up recently in down in the chat section. A user failed to find the GUI for formatting USB sticks. Trying to use the complex line commands caused a loss of data.

Shortened version of what I am saying and asking about - If simple point and click GUI is adequate, why not use it? If simple point and click is adequate when someone is asking for support, why not advise that?

But maybe my question was fully answered by the person I queried later in the thread - maybe Mint just isn't for everyone. It is for me because I'd rather GUI and Clem and team seem to know most people prefer it. I'd be even more satisfied if I never needed CLI. Speaking of which, maybe I should post a thread to find out why even though I have "xset b off" in my startup I still have to run it again in terminal at unpredictable times in LMDE2. That is one loud beep.

BTW - to the question of other reasons for not using "dist-upgrade", my understanding is there is also a potential of pulling Ubuntu files other than level 4 and 5 updates that conflict with Mint but Update Manager knows not to use those.

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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by WharfRat »

I just have to add my two cents about dist-upgrades.

I've had occasions when not doing a dist-upgrade crippled a system which is the reason I've always done them.

This is one from last month: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=233306&hilit=dist+upgrade#p1238078

I also find it annoying that kernel upgrades now have to be done via the update manager :(
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Re: How to "dist-upgrade" the kernel in LM18?

Post by ManTaRa »

Penn wrote:
BTW - to the question of other reasons for not using "dist-upgrade", my understanding is there is also a potential of pulling Ubuntu files other than level 4 and 5 updates that conflict with Mint but Update Manager knows not to use those.
@Penn, et al:

I don't disagree about using the GUI, if it is simpler to use the GUI then for many things that would be fine. Whether now LM is making the upgrade from the ubuntu base repos more complicated, then perhaps that is a good argument for using the Updater.

But, since in most linux distros upgrading is "routine" . . . happening regularly . . . the traditional . . . very simple "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" brings historically the relevant upgrades . . . including basic kernel updates . . . and also generally in LM it all goes well . . . . It just seems like the Updater only way is a "solution" where there was no problem.

Again, GUI is always an option, but, rather than having to check off a whole list of items in the Updater, just running the apt-get command is faster, easier, and generally bullet-proof. It now seems like that simple process has now been made more complicated . . . which I guess these days is considered "progress."

MTR

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