What is RPM?

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vladtepes
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What is RPM?

Post by vladtepes »

I gather it's some kind of package manager.

( I've heard of Synaptic package Manager refereed to as SPM... maybe it stands for Redhat or something?)

Elsewhere someone told me
If you use an RPM based distro I can probably help a bit.
Others are more Debian focussed.
Now I see LM has a 'Main Edition' and a Debian edition. So this leads me to assume (possibly incorrectly) that an RPM based distro would be an Ubuntu-based one (eg LM Main Edition).

So am I on the right track? When he says an RPM based distro would that be like LM Main Edition?


Thanks for your help.
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MintyO
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Re: What is RPM?

Post by MintyO »

By a very clever application of a search engine and "rpm distro" gives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_L ... #RPM-based :wink:
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jimallyn
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Re: What is RPM?

Post by jimallyn »

No, an RPM-based distro would not be an Ubuntu-based distro. There are several different ways to package and install applications in Linux. The two most popular are the Debian system, which uses .deb packages and the apt/dpkg system, and the RedHat system, which uses .rpm packages and the RedHat Package Manager. Ubuntu is based on Debian, and Mint is based on Ubuntu. Mint and Ubuntu do not use the RPM system. (Which is one of the reasons I use Mint. The first distro I ever tried used .rpm packages, and it was dependency hell. Although I understand that has changed a lot in the 15 years since I last used an RPM system.)
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Re: What is RPM?

Post by Cosmo. »

You can compare the packages for Mint somehow with the MSI files for Windows. It are kind of archives with the software as content with some instructions for installation. in Linux the mostly used packages are DEB and RPM. Which you need depends from the package manager (a little bit comparable with the Windows installer) of the used Linux distro; only the correct package manager can make sense of the included instructions. All flavors of Mint are directly or indirectly based on debian, so only the deb packages fit.
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Re: What is RPM?

Post by Hoser Rob »

This is just a guess but rpm may stand for Redhat Package Manager. And the one (and ONLY) time I installed Fedora, which is the free version of Redhat, it was broken.

There are a number of different package management systems in Linux. Far TOO many ... if you were ever wondering why there are so fewer Linux software titles than in WIndoze, this is a good place top start.

A quick search would give something like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Package_manager
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Re: What is RPM?

Post by vladtepes »

OK cool - thanks for the responses all ! :D



So I suppose as a segue from the above... if Mint is ultimately based on debian (via Ubuntu) ... why are there separate Mint 'main edition' and 'debian edition'. ?

Just getting my head around it all...
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BillV
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Re: What is RPM?

Post by BillV »

originally Red Hat Package Manager system for Red Hat and Fedora, similar to ubuntu's synaptic. Fedora its now invoked with dnf, used to be invoked with yum. Red Hat, Fedora, are rpm based distro's. Ubuntu is not an rpm based distro (its Synaptic).
https://wpollock.com/Unix/us__en_us__ib ... meline.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPM_Package_Manager

Debian Linux Mint is based on Debian Linux, the mainstream (for lack of better terms) Linux Mint is Ubuntu Linux based. Different Linux kernels. Debian for more advance linux users.
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Fred Barclay
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Re: What is RPM?

Post by Fred Barclay »

vladtepes wrote:So I suppose as a segue from the above... if Mint is ultimately based on debian (via Ubuntu) ... why are there separate Mint 'main edition' and 'debian edition'. ?

Just getting my head around it all...
Debian is one of the "upstream" Linux distros (for lack of a better word) - in other words, it is not based on another Linux distro. Debian takes the Linux source code and the source code for every application it offers and packages them into .deb files. Debian offers three releases at any given time
- Debian Unstable, or "Sid". This contains all-new code from software developers. All the programs in it are updated frequently to later releases - so, if package foo gets a new release, Sid receives an update soon. Because it's constantly changing, Sid is prone to bugs, ranging from minor glitches to full-blown breakages.

- Debian Testing, currently "Stretch" or Debian 9. After packages have been in Sid for a few weeks, if there are no major bugs they're sent to Debian Testing. The goal of Debian Testing is to provide a holding ground for packages and to be the environment from which each new Debian Stable release is built. This means that every few years Testing enters several months of "freeze", in which all the packages are held at their current version and tested heavily by the community. During the freeze, packages are only updated to fix bugs, and then only to the minimal version necessary.

- Debian Stable, currently "Jessie" or Debian 8. After months of the "freeze", if Debian Testing has no known serious bugs (and relatively few minor ones), a new Debian Stable is released. Debian Stable is called "stable" because packages are not updated except in the event of a security flaw (i.e. the package base is stable and does not change). This also means that Debian Stable is very, well,stable in terms of breakages and bugs. Without intentionally abusing Debian Stable with something like rm -rf /*, it's very difficult to break it. Stable is the Debian distro you could use equally well for a server or as your desktop OS, although the stability means that many packages are not the latest available version.
Stable is supported for several years: until the release of the next Debian Stable and then for at least one more year. There are no deadlines for the release of Stable; it's released when it's ready and not a moment before!
Stable is also considered secure because it's undergone so much review to get to be Stable.

Ubuntu is based on a mix of Debian Testing and Unstable. This allows it to offer newer packages than Debian Stable, but this comes at a cost of stability. Although Ubuntu is pretty stable, it's not as rock-solid as Debian Stable (though it's at least as stable as Testing or Unstable). A new version of Ubuntu is released every 6 months, and there are two types of Ubuntu releases.
- Ubuntu LTS. This is Ubuntu's equivalent to Debian Stable. LTS is supported for 5 years. Each Ubuntu LTS release version has an even major number, and the minor number is ".04" - i.e. 12.04, 14.04, 16.04, and (in 2018) 18.04. The major number is the year of release, and the minor number the month (April). As you can probably guess, LTS is released every two years.
LTS follows a similar philosophy to Debian Stable, in that packages are not updated except for security bugs. At release, the software in LTS is generally newer than in Debian Stable... but the forced deadlines and newer software can come at a price. LTS is stable, but it's not as stable as Debian Stable. That being said, it's fine for both desktop and low- to mid-value servers. I personally would not run a high-value server on Ubuntu, LTS or not, unless it were offline.

- All other Ubuntu releases. These releases have relatively new software, but they're only supported for 9 months. There's not really an analogue to them in the Debian world that I can think of. They're not unstable, but they're neither as stable as Ubuntu LTS or Debian Stable. That being said, thousands of people use 'em so they have to be pretty stable.

(Bear in mind this is all a bit of a simplification.)

Since version 17, Linux Mint is only based on Ubuntu LTS. This gives the Mint team two years without having to build on a new package base, freeing up a lot of development time for improving Mint itself.

So what we have here is:
upstream software bits and the Linux kernel >> Debian (Stable, Testing, and Sid)
Debian Testing + Sid >> Ubuntu (LTS and others)
Ubuntu LTS >> Linux Mint

LMDE skips the middle man and is based directly on Debian Stable. For me, it's the best of both worlds - a highly stable base, and all the goodness of Mint. This does mean that some things that work for "normal" Mint, such as PPAs, aren't compatible with LMDE. Drivers are also handled differently.
LMDE also gets all Mint-specific updates, without having to update to a newer version of LMDE. What I mean by this is that the software that is directly developed by Mint (Cinnamon, mintstick, the Update Manager, and so on) are provided directly to LMDE as ordinary updates in the Update Manager. For normal Mint, to get a new version of Cinnamon or the other Mint tools, you have to upgrade to the latest Mint release.
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Re: What is RPM?

Post by lmuserx4849 »

In the linux package management realm, it refers to Red Hat's packagement management system.

You have 3 items going on here and each of those items are hierarchical:
  1. distribution (lmde based on debian, linux mint based on ubuntu, ubuntu based on debian, redhat based on fedora, etc)
    You can make certain assumptions if you know what a distribution is based on.
  2. package manager (rpm, dpkg (deb), other)
  3. add-on tools that enhance the base/default package manager
    (dpkg -> apt -> aptitude
    --------> synaptic)
    (rpm -> yum -> packagekit
    ---------> zypper -> yast)
dpkg and rpm are the most popular package management systems used on Linux distributions, althought they aren't the only ones.
dpkg was created by debian and rpm was created by redhat and adopted by a number of other distributions.

Although there are hundreds of distributions, some argue there are fewer because they are based on another distribution.

At distrowatch you can search on "Based on" or "Package management".

Debian has a list: Software distributions based on Debian

Linux Mint download page shows available versions.

There is a wonderful book on Debian that you can read online or purchase, Debian Handbook. Chapters 5 and 6 take you up the ladder of available tools from dpkg, apt, aptitude, synaptic, etc. There's a web site dedicated to rpm. Click on the link to Fedora RPM Guide and see the ladder of available tools. If you goto OpenSuSE, which adopted rpm, it has some of the low-level tools, but it also has it's own zypper, yast.


Linux Mint @DistroWatch:

OS Type: Linux
Based on: Debian, Ubuntu (LTS) <----------------------
...
Scroll down to Features and you'll see "Package Management DEB".

Debian @DistroWatch:

OS Type: Linux, BSD
Based on: Independent <----------------------
...
Take the distrowatch search link from above and select "Based on - Independent". Fedora is in the list. Select and scroll down to see Package Management. Red Hat is based on Fedora. Opensuse is independent and uses rpm. This should give you a good overview. What you won't find are the programs that are built on top of the base packagement management system. For that, you have to ask questions, search, or read the distro doc.

You might be interested in the Linux Foundation course, Intro to Linux.

As a end-user you don't really need to know all the details. Although it helps, you'll pick it up as you go along. Bottom-line: Pick a tool and just be consistent.
vladtepes
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Re: What is RPM?

Post by vladtepes »

Thank you all very much for the time you've devoted to replying. Your explanations are very helpful. :D
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Re: What is RPM?

Post by stanley83 »

If you need to install it on Mint or Debian use alien to convert it from an rpm *.rpm to a deb *.deb then install it like any other deb package. Ian.
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Re: What is RPM?

Post by TI58C »

@vladtepes
If you need to install it on Mint or Debian use alien to convert it from an rpm *.rpm to a deb *.deb then install it like any other deb package. Ian.
Yes, you can do this. But you had better make sure you have a good backup of your system.
Converted rpm packages may work OK. But they may also destroy something, or ask for a lot of dependent packages to be installed, or simply break your mint install
For a novice user, it is asking for trouble.

Robert
Last edited by TI58C on Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is RPM?

Post by mr_raider »

TI58C wrote:@vladtepes
If you need to install it on Mint or Debian use alien to convert it from an rpm *.rpm to a deb *.deb then install it like any other deb package. Ian.
Yes, you can do this. But you had better make sure you have a good backup of your system.
Converted rpm packages may work OK. But thay may also destroy something, or ask for a lot of dependent packages to be installed, or simply break your mint install
For a novice user, it is asking for trouble.

Robert
For a advanced user it's asking for trouble. I would build from source before trying alien.
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Re: What is RPM?

Post by TI58C »

@mr_raider

Agree.

Robert
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