Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

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Marziano
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by Marziano » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:12 pm

tovian wrote:
daniel wrote:Yes I am :D
Daniel,
Thank you very much for popping in to help us with this issue. I wasn't sure you received my message, but I am most grateful that you followed up.
Tovian
Thank you, Daniel! You are The Daniel!
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by daniel » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:15 pm

The comparison does not work. The configs for the removed text editor do neither affect the system nor any other text editor.
The config wont be broken after uninstalling grub customizer. Only possible breaks are new configs that are put from the update manager of your operating system (then you get some duplicate menuentries). But same happens on manually changed configs. Grub customizer provides an automated way to fix it but you can even fix it manually. You just have to move the new files to the old locations (30_os-prober to proxifiedScripts/os-prober for example - the new and original locations are stored at /etc/grub.d/.script_sources.txt).
And, if I am not mistaken, you could simply use GC to change those parameters back to their "defaults" and thats it or you can manually do that as stated above.
That's true. Usually you don't need the backup. However if you can't start the system for any reason (linux entry removed and warning ignored, for example) it may be the easier way just to restore some files.
When I checked the backup folder the file dates were current from using it, not when installed.
Hmm it isn't intended to work this way. Should contain the config that was present before clicking the save button the first time. I'll check this.

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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by G-Mo » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:17 pm

Oh that Daniel :) I missed your reference link 'til now. I did skim that paper a couples weeks ago but just spotted you authored it. Wow, subject matter expert indeed! It seems by that paper you can edit and restore the original Grub file(s) with a careful touch. One clue was "After you removed every proxy script, you can delete bin/grubcfg_proxy too". That would indeed be a clean removal and I missed that.

This forum is outstanding with the great replies and conversation. This may be the most intelligent group I've ever came across? No haters or Trolls - nice! Hopefully someday I'll be worthy up here. But now that I've mastered pressing the ESC key on boot (Doh!), I'll research a bit further next time before installing what sounds good. 'Til then, I'm Customized.

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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by Marziano » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:18 pm

G-Mo wrote:I checked out that built-in backup utility. I thought it took a snapshot of the original Grub and tucked it in that BU folder. Nice! Then I spotted it wrote out the first backup in its own language. Meaning you could revert back one (last) boot level if needed. This sounded great as I had a "virgin" backup from a fresh Grub Confuserator install. Nope, pretty sure performing the BU would restore the original file but with the GC modified code. That would not be the proper (non modified) Grub file I wanted.

Another GC trick is that it overwrites/updates the BU folder with any change or Save. The other mystery feature is a button to Write to MBR. That sounds scary, update it from "Save" only until you understand when to write to the Master Boot Record.

Experimenting last night I tried the Esc key on boot (Shift never worked) and it loaded the option screen first time. Doh, that's what started all this!
Sorry, G-Mo, I had missed this post. I would have understood your point :oops:
Last edited by Marziano on Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by Marziano » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:20 pm

daniel wrote:
When I checked the backup folder the file dates were current from using it, not when installed.
Hmm it isn't intended to work this way. Should contain the config that was present before clicking the save button the first time. I'll check this.
Well, I guess if the intention is to be able to restore the state of things back to the let's say Zero-Day!
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by daniel » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:31 pm

Ok, I checked the backup functionality ... but it worked as expected. The folder will never be updated. However if you delete it manually (sudo rm -r /etc/grub.d/backup), then... sure grub customizer creates it again but with changes (still the state before rewriting the config after clicking the save button).

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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by G-Mo » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:07 pm

^ Yes Marziano, something like you do have an original backup when GC is first installed. It remains until you make any significant changes in GC. Then it is overwrittian with the last known-good config. The "zero-day" original gets stepped on. I think should you have the original Grub intact, you still have to edit out the "proxy" language to restore to factory?
Last edited by G-Mo on Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by Marziano » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:10 pm

daniel wrote:Ok, I checked the backup functionality ... but it worked as expected. The folder will never be updated. However if you delete it manually (sudo rm -r /etc/grub.d/backup), then... sure grub customizer creates it again but with changes (still the state before rewriting the config after clicking the save button).
Is it the trouble you can get yourself in by uninstalling Grub Customizer prior to reverting changes, since the backup folder then is lost?
Last edited by Marziano on Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by tovian » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:12 pm

What are the implications (possibilities for corruption) if one installs multiple (3,4,+) Linux OS's on the same disk - AND - makes modifications with Grub Customizer?

I know other folks have other questions, but my real questions are these two:
I will have two (possibly three) OS's (including Windows) booting from the same HDD. I want to delete some of the Grub options I never use, and I occasionally want to change the (default) boot order. Is Grub Customizer safe to use in this scenario? If I ever need to remove Grub Customizer from the OS where it has run will I have problems?
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by Marziano » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:19 pm

@G-Mo

If I understand Daniel's last post correctly, the backup folder will not be updated, not even through several modifications by GC.
Ok, I checked the backup functionality ... but it worked as expected. The folder will never be updated.
Unless one removes it manually:
However if you delete it manually (sudo rm -r /etc/grub.d/backup), then... sure grub customizer creates it again but with changes (still the state before rewriting the config after clicking the save button).
Then and only then the "Zero-Day"-files are lost.
At least, that's what I can make of it.
Last edited by Marziano on Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by Marziano » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:51 pm

tovian wrote: I will have two (possibly three) OS's (including Windows) booting from the same HDD. I want to delete some of the Grub options I never use, and I occasionally want to change the (default) boot order. Is Grub Customizer safe to use in this scenario? If I ever need to remove Grub Customizer from the OS where it has run will I have problems?
You don't have to use it at the first place if you just want to change the Grub boot order. You can do it manually by editing the entries of grub.cfg file for the last installed OS. I would keep a backup of this in case things get out of hand and you end up with an unbootable system. It's very easy to delete just one "{" or whatever to mess things up. Make a backup and study how each menu entry for each OS looks like and where do they begin and where do they end. Then you will know how to edit it and change their order which will later be reflected in the Grub menu. I would keep all the entries, even those you think you might not want and put them under Advanced Options for each OS. They might come handy one day, you'll never know. That's how i have done it myself and it works. Remember keep that original grub.cfg safe because if you accidentally make a mistake and end up with an unbootable system, you can always use your live media to boot and replace the modified file with the original.

Disclaimer: Don't do this or do it at you own risk :!:
Last edited by Marziano on Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by tovian » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:25 pm

Marziano wrote:Disclaimer: Don't do this or do it at you own risk
Thus the reason for using a utility like Grub Customizer in the first place. If it's as safe as I believe it to be then I don't have to do ANY of the things you have spent time and energy describing to us. Whack me if I'm wrong, but I think that's the whole concept behind utilities, definitely the concept behind GUI's, perhaps even behind computers themselves. :wink:
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by Marziano » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:31 pm

tovian wrote:
Marziano wrote:Disclaimer: Don't do this or do it at you own risk
Thus the reason for using a utility like Grub Customizer in the first place. If it's as safe as I believe it to be then I don't have to do ANY of the things you have spent time and energy describing to us.
Do you want to change the order of the entries in your boot menu or what :D :?:
Last edited by Marziano on Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by Marziano » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:38 pm

tovian wrote:Whack me if I'm wrong, but I think that's the whole concept behind utilities, definitely the concept behind GUI's, perhaps even behind computers themselves. :wink:
Computers!?
I wouldn't use them.
They leak!
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by Marziano » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:38 pm

G-Mo wrote:
Thanks to Daniel - "write to mbr means: grub-install. Usually you only need it if your boot loader is replaced"... I thought that but it's good to see as not well documented.
That's kind of a boot-repair functionality, right? Should the tool then be run in a live environment?
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by all41 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:34 pm

fwiw:
I have never understood the compulsion to customize a screen which displays for 10 seconds. I even change grub to display less than a second--if I want to choose other boot options I can press space to pause the timeout. I don't need pretty pictures to accomplish this
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by Marziano » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:07 pm

all41 wrote:fwiw:
I have never understood the compulsion to customize a screen which displays for 10 seconds.
I think the discussion in this thread has rather been about getting clear about the functioning of a tool called Grub Customizer and not about any compulsion to customize a screen. At least not for me.

On the other hand I can understand that many would find it aesthetically more appealing to be presented with a nice background when they turn on their computers and not with a black screen with some white lines on. If they have any compulsory urge toward customizing Grub menu screens, I can't have any opinion thereof. They should speak up for themselves.
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by gld59 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:12 pm

all41 wrote:fwiw:
I have never understood the compulsion to customize a screen which displays for 10 seconds.
For me, the main reason to customise is being able to have dual booting handled by the bootloader of the non-default OS - default to Windows (on one machine) but have Grub handle the dual boot (on all I'm responsible for). I did it just by manually changing the sort-order number allocated to the Windows loader. A little fiddly, and I have to remember how / look it up every couple of years with each fresh re-installation, but it means things are simple and standardised between my primary machine (Win10/LM18.3), my secondary (LM18.3/WinXP), and my mother's machine (LM18.3/Win10).

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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by all41 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:13 pm

Marziano wrote:
all41 wrote:fwiw:
I have never understood the compulsion to customize a screen which displays for 10 seconds.
I can't have any opinion thereof. They should speak up for themselves.
Yes they should--this is a forum
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Re: Is the Grub Customizer a no, no?

Post by Marziano » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:19 pm

all41 wrote:
Marziano wrote:
all41 wrote:fwiw:
I have never understood the compulsion to customize a screen which displays for 10 seconds.
I can't have any opinion thereof. They should speak up for themselves.
Yes they should--this is a forum
Sure, then perhaps someone with compulsory urge towards customizing Grub menu screens, reading this thread will be inspired by your suggestion to open a new thread, preferably in the Open Chat to discuss with like-minded people.
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