Not another Mint anti virus question.

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iampuzzled
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Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by iampuzzled » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:36 pm

OK I know the do I need av with Linux is frequently asked and the answer is, not really needed. But, I am concerned my internet banking provider (in the UK) will not be impressed if my on line banking accounts are hacked and when they ask me 'what av have you got?' and I say none, they'll say hard luck if your account has been emptied.

Now people say just be sensible and av is a waste of time anyway but, that answer will not wash with financial institutions in the UK. I only use Firefox for Linux as my internet browser and although I have once or twice used Chrome as an alternative, have never used it for online banking transactions.

I take the usual precautions of never opening dodgey emails although like most, am plagued by spam.

Ive enabled the firewal via the sudo command but can I really just surf and do my on line banking with no need for some form of AV? I started to read this https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/814 but to be frank, it flew over my head and I didnt follow anything except the firewall. Advice would be appreciated.

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Moem
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by Moem » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:15 pm

I'd install ClamAV, never run it at all, and have a name to tell them when they'd ask.

Yes, you can do online banking on Linux without any form of antivirus. There are no virus infections known to happen on Linux. Doesn't mean it could never happen, but so far it hasn't.
Phishing is another matter and common sense is the best weapon against that; also, some browser hardening won't go amiss. Personally I like Noscript, but it's a bit hardcore. Privacy Badger has a good reputation, as does UBlock Origin; these three can be combined.
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whm1974
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by whm1974 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:15 pm

There is ClamAV, and you can install extra anti-malware plugins as well.

Cosmo.
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by Cosmo. » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:23 pm

The problem is: Those employees get trained for the usual customers, who use at 90 to 95 % Windows. They use a Windows computer or a smartphone themselves and no idea about Linux. They cannot imagine, that a Linux system without an AV is far more secure than a Windows computer with AV.

I am not a lawyer; only they can answer the question, if the bank can in case of an emptied account make its life so easy.

Do they ask, if you use an on-access scanner or an on-demand scanner? If they do not I would think - as a non-lawyer - that they are on bad luck, because you could say, that use an on-demand scanner and would have fulfilled what they want.

I can partly understand, that the bank does not want to get responsible, if on the customer's system is a malware, perhaps with the account password stored on the computer and perhaps without 2 way authentication in case of a transaction. But they use a too simple equation: without AV = bad, regardless of the OS.

My bank says, that I have to ensure, that my system is secured. Well with my up-to-date Mint it is; I know that, if they know this alone is their problem.

P.S. Regarding ClamAV: A very current example how such software can do the opposite of security!

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sammiev
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by sammiev » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:58 pm

If you really want to run a anti-virus program.

Look at Sophos, it's free and you can run it on demand. No need to have it running all the time, start a scan before you do your banking.

https://www.sophos.com/en-us/products/f ... linux.aspx

Been using it for years and only ever had a few malware hits within Firefox.

Look at Firejail and run your browser within a jail.

Here's some info on Firejail.

https://firejail.wordpress.com/

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jimallyn
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by jimallyn » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:52 pm

Been using Linux since 2002, and never got any virus or other malware on any of my Linux computers. Nor has any Linux user that I know of, and, since I have been active on Linux forums the entire time I have been using Linux (much of that time as a moderator or administrator), that would take in a LOT of people. I won't say that it can't happen, just that I have never heard of it happening.
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whm1974
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by whm1974 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:38 pm

I never had any viruses or other malware either during the 12 years I've used Linux.

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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by stormryder » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:09 pm

iampuzzled wrote:But, I am concerned my internet banking provider (in the UK) will not be impressed if my on line banking accounts are hacked and when they ask me 'what av have you got?'
I think I would be more concerned about the security of your bank's servers, they are certainly more likely to be a target of skilled hacks than you may be.
Sure you can install antivirus software that searches for windows viruses on your linux system in case your bank account gets emptied by a hacker, you can also search for tropical islands for sale in case you win the lottery.
If you already own an island, then you should definitely ask your bank about the security of their servers.

Mattyboy
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by Mattyboy » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:33 pm

Just use a none-persistent ( after you've updated it ) Linux VM for banking if it really concerns you.

My UK banks have no issue with me using Linux neither does my accountant. Keep records, as you should do anyway, of everything banking related you do ( screenshot with date metadata ).

UK banks are in no position to dictate what OS you use anymore than what brand of coffee you drink. There are legal rules in place that protect you from loosing money if hacked. Unusual account activity, 'paper' ( digital ) trails etc.... people logging in from an unusual IP address. They have a bigger responsibility to protect your money than you do.

You can't fix the stupidity of poorly trained staff, if they tried to make an issue tell them then that they need to provide you with a copy of Windows 10 and antivirus program or you'll take your business elsewhere.

Take all the usual precautions that you should but there is no argument for 'not' using an 'antivirus'.

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sammiev
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by sammiev » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:34 pm

It's impossible I guess to get malware or a virus in Linux. :roll:

https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1992822

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Pjotr
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by Pjotr » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:44 am

Don't install AV in your desktop Linux. That would be idiotic, because that would actually decrease your security.

In order to prevent endless and useless discussions with ignorant bank employees, you can always say that you do have it. A lie, but a practical lie. You have to protect those fools from themselves.

If any bank employee would want to check that on your computer for himself, just install ClamAV before you take your computer to him (and remove it when you're back home again). Problem solved. :mrgreen:

Note that this is all highly theoretical: what are the chances of your secure Linux desktop falling prey to malware?
Last edited by Pjotr on Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Sir Charles
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by Sir Charles » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:58 am

Pjotr wrote: Note that this is all highly theoretical: what are the chances of your secure Linux desktop falling prey to malware?
But are there any chances at all? I mean, can one be 100 % sure that there are no Linux-specific malware in the wild? So if there is a tiny chance that there are some then there is a tiny risk that my Linux might be or might get infected. In that case what method should I use to find out that this is not the case?
I suppose that's one of the ironies of life, doing the wrong thing at the right moment -C.C.

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Pjotr
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by Pjotr » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:05 am

Marziano wrote:
Pjotr wrote: Note that this is all highly theoretical: what are the chances of your secure Linux desktop falling prey to malware?
But are there any chances at all? I mean, can one be 100 % sure that there are no Linux-specific malware in the wild? So if there is a tiny chance that there are some then there is a tiny risk that my Linux might be or might get infected. In that case what method should I use to find out that this is not the case?
It doesn't help being paranoid about this. :mrgreen:

None in the wild. And as I said: installing antivirus in your desktop Linux lowers its security. Please read this article that I wrote on security in Linux Mint: https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... t/security
Why on earth would anyone want to decrease his security?

Installing a normal application, any normal application, increases your attack surface. Installing antivirus increases your attack surface dramatically. Don't do it.
Last edited by Pjotr on Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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pjc123
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by pjc123 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:09 am

I am also using Sophos antivirus. Even if I were naive enough to think that Linux could never get a virus in the future, there is also the possibility of transferring a Windows virus via a USB flash drive.

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Sir Charles
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by Sir Charles » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:13 am

Pjotr wrote: Installing antivirus increases your attack surface dramatically. Don't do it.
Yes, I have understood that. But I mean, are there somethings one can do with the resources already present in Linux to minimize the risk of an even so tiny chance of getting infected. I guess the answer is yes and you have probably answered my question already in your article.
I suppose that's one of the ironies of life, doing the wrong thing at the right moment -C.C.

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Pjotr
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by Pjotr » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:14 am

pjc123 wrote:I am also using Sophos antivirus. Even if I were naive enough to think that Linux could never get a virus in the future,
The naivety is in thinking that you increase your security with antivirus in desktop Linux. The reverse is true: you decrease it. A lot. And not in some hypothetical future, but right here and now.
there is also the possibility of transferring a Windows virus via a USB flash drive.
A common misconception:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... dows-users
(item 4, right column)
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by BigEasy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:40 am

iampuzzled wrote:OK I know the do I need av with Linux is frequently asked and the answer is, not really needed. But, I am concerned my internet banking provider (in the UK) will not be impressed if my on line banking accounts are hacked and when they ask me 'what av have you got?' and I say none, they'll say hard luck if your account has been emptied.
And if as soon as you say the name of any AV they will return the money to your account without any other questions? I'm afraid - not.
You can ask them first instead: "sorry, guys, but what AV have YOU?". I'm perfectly sure ther servers not Windows server based.
Hacked account means not you was hacked, but their system.
Windows assumes I'm stupid but Linux demands proof of it

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Moem
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by Moem » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:04 am

Mod note:
Discussion of virtual box has been moved here.
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

DAMIEN1307
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by DAMIEN1307 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:44 am

in 20 years or so of doing on line banking, i have never ever been asked or heard anyone say you have to prove your AV status in order to be covered by your bank...where does this stuff come from...just for giggles i called my bank on this...they told me straight out that internet security is all on them...they also admitted that any and all banking problems they have seen on internet transactions was 9 times out of ten, windows operating systems, 1 out of 10 is mac...they cannot recall any linux system using there on line services as ever being a problem...is this post possibly surmising a problem that doesnt even exist?...call your banks and ask them...DAMIEN
ORDO AB CHAO

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Pjotr
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Re: Not another Mint anti virus question.

Post by Pjotr » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:52 am

DAMIEN1307 wrote:is this post possibly surmising a problem that doesnt even exist?...call your banks and ask them...DAMIEN
It's standard procedure for Dutch banks to require AV on the computers of their customers, and from the looks of it, for German and British banks as well.

So it's a problem for some Linux users alright, but it can be tackled as I described earlier in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=262921&p=1423978#p1423871
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