Cinnamon menu looks different after update

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Mia
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Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Mia » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:22 am

Hi all.

After last update and restart, I have two different menus. One appears on menu button click is the same as before:
menu1.png
And on pressing Super (Win) key on my keyboard is the completely different menu. Another problem that it appears only after releasing the Super button, so to use shortcuts Super+something I need to press it, then release, then press again - and only then actually press a "shortcut key" before releasing Super. I can't even screenshot it:
IMG_20180206_164657_HDR.jpg
What can I do to get my old good menu back?

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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Dave B » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:44 pm

Hi Mia,

Which update are you referring to?

Second menu shown is the fall-back MATE menu, and is normally only visible if Cinnamon crashes.

In case helpful, you can still take a screenshot by launching Screenshot and using 'Grab after a delay of' setting, choose something like 4 seconds, click 'Take Screenshot', launch the menu and wait.

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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Mia » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:18 pm

Dave B wrote:Which update are you referring to?
Usual apt-get update && apt-get upgrade on my Mint 18.3.
Dave B wrote:Second menu shown is the fall-back MATE menu, and is normally only visible if Cinnamon crashes.
Oh, it was actually the second reboot, because after the first one Cinnamon didn't finish to start, and I restarted it with Ctrl+Alt+Esc, then rebooted my laptop again. Maybe the second time something went wrong also. I'll try to reboot once more or to re-login. I actually reboot very rarely, only after significant updates (several times per year maybe).
Dave B wrote:In case helpful, you can still take a screenshot by launching Screenshot and using 'Grab after a delay of' setting, choose something like 4 seconds, click 'Take Screenshot', launch the menu and wait.
Thank you, I totally forgot about it, used PrintScreen / Ctrl+PrintScreen only, for a long time.

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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Penn » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:24 pm

Mia wrote:
Dave B wrote:Which update are you referring to?
Usual apt-get update && apt-get upgrade on my Mint 18.3.
There is your issue. Mint is not intended to use the "apt-get upgrade" CLI method and it has been known to break things very frequently. The GUI update manager exists for a reason. Only use the line command option if something serious is already broken as a way to fix it, but even then it might have these adverse effects. It is even more of a potential to cause problems if you use "dist-upgrade".

Sorry, don't have a solution but I thought you might want to know "why" it happened.

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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Mia » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:44 pm

Penn wrote:
Mia wrote:Usual apt-get update && apt-get upgrade on my Mint 18.3.
There is your issue. Mint is not intended to use the "apt-get upgrade" CLI method and it has been known to break things very frequently. The GUI update manager exists for a reason. Only use the line command option if something serious is already broken as a way to fix it, but even then it might have these adverse effects. It is even more of a potential to cause problems if you use "dist-upgrade".

Sorry, don't have a solution but I thought you might want to know "why" it happened.
Thank you. Actually, it's my old habit from Debian. But I use Mint for several years now, and it's the first time I have some problems. Now I will know.

Can I use apt-get / aptitude to install or upgrade single packages, or it's also not recommended? I still can't get used to SoftwareManager / Synaptic.

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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Termy » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:19 pm

I think this not using apt-get thing in Mint is a myth, to be honest. They update the same things, except that whole kernel thing which I think they changed a while ago. The apt-get program is a sort of front-end for dpkg, and I'm guessing if I looked up the source code for mintupdate, that it'd be making use of apt-get, perhaps even dpkg. I imagine it's a python program using the apt module or something. I'd gladly accept it as truth if a Mint developer could confirm that apt-get shouldn't be used on Mint, but to me it just seems like something made up because of course every now and then things go wrong, so it's easy to point the blame at something which, for many, is mysterious and/or scary. :?

Keep in mind, by the way, that Mint have their own python script called apt, which is just a wrapper for apt-* tools; now why would they write that tool if it breaks their very own system? That would baffle me. :lol:
Last edited by Termy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by austin.texas » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:21 pm

Mia wrote:Can I use apt-get / aptitude to install or upgrade single packages, or it's also not recommended?
No problem with that. It is just the apt-get upgrade you want to avoid.
Mint is designed to use the Levels described in the Update Manager.
Mia wrote:I still can't get used to SoftwareManager / Synaptic.
Update using the Update Manager - not Software Manager or Synaptic.
Mint 18.2 Cinnamon, Quad core AMD A8-3870 with Radeon HD Graphics 6550D, 8GB DDR3, Ralink RT2561/RT61 802.11g PCI
Linux Linx 2018


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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Mia » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:49 pm

austin.texas wrote:
Mia wrote:Can I use apt-get / aptitude to install or upgrade single packages, or it's also not recommended?
No problem with that. It is just the apt-get upgrade you want to avoid.
Mint is designed to use the Levels described in the Update Manager.
Mia wrote:I still can't get used to SoftwareManager / Synaptic.
Update using the Update Manager - not Software Manager or Synaptic.
Sounds good. Update Manager feels more convenient for me. I just need to remember update is a separate operation from install/uninstall. So I will use Update Manager for updates, and aptitude for the rest. Thank you.

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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Termy » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:13 pm

Figured as much. I knew it bypassed the level system, but that's not something I need to worry about. I guess I can understand why someone else might want to, but if they are okay with it, it doesn't matter, IMO; similar to choosing all updates in mintupdate.
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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Cosmo. » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:20 pm

Mia wrote:I actually reboot very rarely, only after significant updates (several times per year maybe).
And here we have an additional problem.
A number of software does only get effective after reboot. Perhaps you can restart a daemon, that has been updated, but do you know which and how? Without that you might have the old, not updated code in your RAM for weeks or for months. If you now reboot after a long time, the updates of several weeks will possibly get effective and you have no idea, which of the updates - perhaps many weeks ago - is responsible for a regression.

Regarding aptitude: I warn against using it. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with aptitude by itself. But aptitude and apt-get use distinctive databases for the package management and sooner or later the one of them does not know, what the other tool did. Result: None of them work reliable. The Mint tools, especially the update manager use apt-get in the background, so you should stay with it.

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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Mia » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:20 pm

Cosmo. wrote:
Mia wrote:I actually reboot very rarely, only after significant updates (several times per year maybe).
And here we have an additional problem.
A number of software does only get effective after reboot. Perhaps you can restart a daemon, that has been updated, but do you know which and how? Without that you might have the old, not updated code in your RAM for weeks or for months. If you now reboot after a long time, the updates of several weeks will possibly get effective and you have no idea, which of the updates - perhaps many weeks ago - is responsible for a regression.
I usually reboot after significant upgrades. But if I upgraded only a user-space software (like web-browser, or text editor), and no daemons, - I thought it can't be a problem. Yes, this time I possibly made a mistake - I didn't update for a long time, and also I've installed a couple of new daemons.
Cosmo. wrote:Regarding aptitude: I warn against using it. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with aptitude by itself. But aptitude and apt-get use distinctive databases for the package management and sooner or later the one of them does not know, what the other tool did. Result: None of them work reliable. The Mint tools, especially the update manager use apt-get in the background, so you should stay with it.
It's not exactly the truth. A long time ago apt-get and aptitude really were using different databases (I actually don't remember if I was a Debian user myself that times or my (older) boyfriend told me about it). But as long as Ubuntu used apt-get as it's default tool, despite Debian recommended aptitude, they worked together to make the tools compatible. And now both use the same database (you actually can see it in their own dependencies - both 'aptitude' and 'apt' packages (the latter contains apt-get and apt-cache tools) depend on the same main library - libapt-pkg). There are some minor incompatibilities - like different 'hold' methods (which I don't use anyway) or 'auto' marks in aptitude (which can't affect versions compatibility). But the dependencies database is common.

But anyway, I'll think about it. Maybe I should forget about my old habits. (or come back to Debian - but I doubt it)

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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Cosmo. » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:02 pm

Mia wrote:And now both use the same database
Do they? A library alone is no proof for it. I don't use aptitude (out of obvious reason) and cannot look at it myself, but I warn against the risk.

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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Mia » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:18 pm

My bf says he's pretty sure it's exactly what did they change for the compatibility reason. But he doesn't remember where or even when did he read it, so I couldn't find it now.

Anyway, I think I will try to avoid using aptitude in Mint. Because now it really looks like I need to reinstall. It's less than one hour, but anyway I don't want to do it again. )

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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Cosmo. » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:47 pm

It is difficult to find in the web really current information, most is several years old. As a German I like to work much with the well reputed German Ubuntu Wiki. The page about aptitude is lastly updated in May 17 (comparably new). At the end there is still the warning which says (free translated by me), that using apt-get and aptitude concurrently is troublesome and it ends with the sentence, that a user should only the one or the other on the same system.

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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Termy » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:18 pm

This will solve your problem: apt-get moo

Run it, I dare you. Okay, y'all probably know about this, but I had to try. :P
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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Mia » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:21 pm

Found this in Debian reference:
Since apt / apt-get and aptitude share auto-installed package status (see Section 2.5.5, “The package state for APT”) after lenny, you can mix these tools without major troubles
https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debi ... ommandline
Last edited by Mia on Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Mia » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:23 pm

Termy wrote:This will solve your problem: apt-get moo

Run it, I dare you. Okay, y'all probably know about this, but I had to try. :P

Code: Select all

$ aptitude moo
There are no Easter Eggs in this program.
:P

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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Termy » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:26 pm

Lol There are actually. :P Was just reading about aptitude, and apparently adding some -vs will do cool stuff.
.lmscrot.jpg
I don't have aptitude, and don't fancy installing it, so I won't be trying it. lol
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Re: Cinnamon menu looks different after update

Post by Mia » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:32 pm

Termy wrote:Lol There are actually. :P Was just reading about aptitude, and apparently adding some -vs will do cool stuff.
Ha-ha, tried it:

Code: Select all

m $ aptitude moo
There are no Easter Eggs in this program.
m $ aptitude -v moo
There really are no Easter Eggs in this program.
m $ aptitude -vv moo
Didn't I already tell you that there are no Easter Eggs in this program?
m $ aptitude -vvv moo
Stop it!
m $ aptitude -vvvv moo
Okay, okay, if I give you an Easter Egg, will you go away?
m $ aptitude -vvvvv moo
All right, you win.

                               /----\
                       -------/      \
                      /               \
                     /                |
   -----------------/                  --------\
   ----------------------------------------------
m $ aptitude -vvvvvv moo
What is it?  It's an elephant being eaten by a snake, of course.

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