Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

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Pepi
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Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by Pepi » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:31 am

Any way to get the old Cinnamon window borders back? On Mint 19 you only have three for default and I like using the 'Atlanta' window border. I tried renaming the 'themes' directory in Mint 19 and copying my 'themes' directory from Mint 18.3 to Mint 19. This gave me a few new windows boarders but not any I like.
Old Cinnamon default window borders
Old Cinnamon default window borders
WindowBorders.png (21.24 KiB) Viewed 6490 times

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by Pepi » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:04 pm

Doesn't look promising :cry:

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by srpohl » Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:06 pm

I too have been asking this question without any results. A lot of info on themes, but nothing on specific windows borders. What is strange is that there are folders in /usr/share/themes for the missing borders.

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by JosephM » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:49 pm

Old metacity-1 and metacity-2 themes are no longer fully supported by Cinnamon. Some of them were poorly designed and depended on certain behaviour in Muffin. We needed to change that to fix some other issues so removed support for showing them in the theme settings. You can probably still set them via gsettings but some of them WILL have issues.
When I give opinions, they are my own. Not necessarily those of any other Linux Mint developer or the Linux Mint project as a whole.

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by Pepi » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:32 am

JosephM wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:49 pm
Old metacity-1 and metacity-2 themes are no longer fully supported by Cinnamon. Some of them were poorly designed and depended on certain behaviour in Muffin. We needed to change that to fix some other issues so removed support for showing them in the theme settings. You can probably still set them via gsettings but some of them WILL have issues.
Yeah ... I pretty much figured this out. After adding the old Themes back to Mint 19 I had some real weirdness going on. I may just switch to MATE down the road. It still has a lot of options for configuration for tired old men's eyes. :mrgreen:

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by Pepi » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:51 am

JosephM ... since the 'windows boarders' are not located in the metacity folders any more where are the window borders located now with C3.8 :?:

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by Hoser Rob » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:33 am

Pepi wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:31 am
... I tried renaming the 'themes' directory in Mint 19 and copying my 'themes' directory from Mint 18.3 to Mint 19. ...
Never ever do that sort of thing in Linux, there's little backwards compatibility. ANd since Mint 19 is beta, and DE theming is a real bucket of worms, you'd be much better off avoiding 3rd party themes until 19 goes non beta (i.e. actually supported).

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by smurphos » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:59 am

Pepi wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:51 am
JosephM ... since the 'windows boarders' are not located in the metacity folders any more where are the window borders located now with C3.8 :?:
@pepi - if you look inside the theme folder at for example Mint-Y or Mint-X you will see a metacity-1 folder, inside of which are a metacity-theme-2.xml and a metacity-theme-3.xml files

Cinnamon 3.8.x still explicitly supports metacity-theme-3.xml format metacity themes, it's the older 1 and 2 formats that are not explicitly supported. Looking at the roadmap https://github.com/linuxmint/Roadmap it looks like the intention is to move towards the GTK theme handling the window decoration by Mint 19.1 and Cinnamon ?4.0.x? and dropping metacity theme support entirely.

If you do want to experiment with some of the type 1 or 2 metacity themes from 18.3 the command line way of setting them is...

gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme <THEME_NAME>

e.g.

gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme Mint-Y

Results of any experimenting will be interesting... :)
For custom Nemo actions, useful scripts for the Cinnamon desktop, and Cinnamox themes visit my Github pages.

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by smurphos » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:04 pm

JosephM wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:49 pm
JosephM - I noticed in gsettings that the back-up metacity theme is supposed to be Adwaita but it looks like only GTK2 and GTK3 themes are included in the install?
For custom Nemo actions, useful scripts for the Cinnamon desktop, and Cinnamox themes visit my Github pages.

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by smurphos » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:50 pm

A short list of additional themes including metacity-theme-3.xml available from the official repos. There may be more.....

blackbird-gtk-theme
greybird-gtk-theme
mate-themes
numix-gtk-theme
numix-blue-gtk-theme
materia-gtk-theme (although I'd recommend the PPA version from https://launchpad.net/~dyatlov-igor/+ar ... eria-theme - it's more up to date and includes a Cinnamon theme, whereas the repo version is prior to Materia supporting Cinnamon)

Themes available on Cinnamon Spices including metacity-theme-3.xml

The various Cinnamox variants
The Adapta variants
Ambiance-Crunchy
iOS-X
Jade-1
For custom Nemo actions, useful scripts for the Cinnamon desktop, and Cinnamox themes visit my Github pages.

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by lmuserx4849 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:17 pm

JosephM wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:49 pm
Old metacity-1 and metacity-2 themes are no longer fully supported by Cinnamon.
...
Is this true for Mate too?

I'm currently using clearlooks-phenix, which is suppose to be a "GTK3 port of Clearlooks, the default theme for Gnome 2", but it hasn't been updated in awhile. Internet searches seem to indicate GTK themes are tied to a version of GTK. It seems to be working with a few deprecated properties errors.

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by JosephM » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:26 pm

smurphos wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:04 pm
JosephM wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:49 pm
JosephM - I noticed in gsettings that the back-up metacity theme is supposed to be Adwaita but it looks like only GTK2 and GTK3 themes are included in the install?
That's because Adwaita no longer supplies a metacity theme. Since gnome-shell/mutter now use the gtk3 theme info to draw these, they decided to quit providing it quite some time ago. We include an old version of Adwaita in muffin directly but it's only there so that muffin has a theme to use on first install on distros like Arch that use Adwaita by default.
Looking at the roadmap https://github.com/linuxmint/Roadmap it looks like the intention is to move towards the GTK theme handling the window decoration by Mint 19.1 and Cinnamon ?4.0.x? and dropping metacity theme support entirely.
That's the tentative plan. There is already a working branch here: https://github.com/linuxmint/muffin/pull/324 I realize not everyone is going to love that idea but it solves a few issues. One is better support for the window decorations under HiDPI. Another is the constant question about why some apps follow the window border theme and some do not. For example, xed will follow the border theme but calculator will not. We get this reported constantly and can't do anything about it. The metacity theme format seems to be slowly dying. I'm not sure what DE even still uses it outside of Mate and Cinnamon.
When I give opinions, they are my own. Not necessarily those of any other Linux Mint developer or the Linux Mint project as a whole.

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by JosephM » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:27 pm

lmuserx4849 wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:17 pm
JosephM wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:49 pm
Old metacity-1 and metacity-2 themes are no longer fully supported by Cinnamon.
...
Is this true for Mate too?

I'm currently using clearlooks-phenix, which is suppose to be a "GTK3 port of Clearlooks, the default theme for Gnome 2", but it hasn't been updated in awhile. Internet searches seem to indicate GTK themes are tied to a version of GTK. It seems to be working with a few deprecated properties errors.
No it isn't. In fact Mate doesn't even even support metacity-3. Only one and two. This is all part of the hassle of the metacity theme format and is a bit of a PITA for theme devs.
When I give opinions, they are my own. Not necessarily those of any other Linux Mint developer or the Linux Mint project as a whole.

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by Pepi » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:39 pm

smurphos wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:50 pm
A short list of additional themes including metacity-theme-3.xml available from the official repos. There may be more.....

blackbird-gtk-theme
greybird-gtk-theme
mate-themes
numix-gtk-theme
numix-blue-gtk-theme
materia-gtk-theme (although I'd recommend the PPA version from https://launchpad.net/~dyatlov-igor/+ar ... eria-theme - it's more up to date and includes a Cinnamon theme, whereas the repo version is prior to Materia supporting Cinnamon)

Themes available on Cinnamon Spices including metacity-theme-3.xml

The various Cinnamox variants
The Adapta variants
Ambiance-Crunchy
iOS-X
Jade-1
From what I've tried none of these themes will change the Window Borders. So it appears you have a choice of three ONLY and the only way to make them bigger is by increasing the Title Font :| Think I'm sticking to the old Cinnamon

lmuserx4849

Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by lmuserx4849 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:05 pm

JosephM wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:27 pm
...
No it isn't. In fact Mate doesn't even even support metacity-3. Only one and two. This is all part of the hassle of the metacity theme format and is a bit of a PITA for theme devs.
That's what I've been reading on the Net. I have great empathy and appreciation for theme devs. It is confusing as an end-user too :-) I don't understand fully what components make up a GTK theme. Thought it was CSS and if there wasn't a Control Center option, we could make changes via .config/gtk-3.0/gtk.css if we knew the classes. But then saw Metacity, and then something about engines. I think the later is referring to the Window Manager under Control Center > Desktop Settings > Windows > Window Manager > Manager. On LM19 Mate, the dropdown contains Marco+Compositing, Metacity, Compiz, plus others. If one is using a Metacity theme, does the window manager have to be changed? If not changed what happens? If I do a locate on metacity, I see a number of metacity-1. Is that an indicator that the theme is version 1?

According to Mate Release 1.20:
MATE Themes have seen significant improvements to fully implement all style classes exposed by GTK 3.22
And the LM blog indicates Mate 1.20 is installed.

If I search the Mate page, I see references to Metacity, but nothing about version 1, 2, or 3.

From what I've read we can only use themes that are specifically designed for a specific version of GTK, because it has been changing frequently. I don't like to stray from the distro, but I ventured off to https://www.gnome-look.org, and they make it seem as simple as selecting GTK3 or Metacity on the left-hand side.

If a theme is written for GTK 3.22, does that mean it could be used on Cinnamon or Mate?

Like Pepi, the oiginal poster, I'm chasing window borders. I need to clearly distinguish one window from another and from the desktop, and window borders from the window content (i.e., Terminal).

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by JosephM » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:41 pm

Ok. I'll try to do my best to answer a couple questions.

First you have to understand all the pieces that make up a full desktop theme. The main one is the gtk, or in Cinnamon terms, the "Controls" theme. This controls the styling of application content inside the window borders of you applications. Depending on the desktop environment, it can also control the styling of of things like your main panels on the desktop. Mate and Xfce for example, use gtk for creating the panels and are thus themed by the gtk theme. Other desktops like Cinnamon or Gnome shell use a custom toolkit that allows hardware accelerated drawing of these elements and have these parts controlled by a separate theme. That's why in Cinnamon you have the option to choose a separate "Cinnamon" theme.

Gtk themes have two parts. A version to cover gtk2 apps and one to cover gtk3 apps. That's why when you look inside a theme you will typically find a gtk-2.0 and gtk-3.0 folder. One for each version. Linux mint actually ships very few gtk2 apps now but a couple of major linux apps are still gtk2 based, such as gimp and inkscape. Gtk2 themes did not use css and relied heavily on "theme engines" to get the desired results. Gtk3 does use css and offers a much larger amount of flexibility than what theme designers had under gtk2. During the years of development of Gtk3 up till 3.22 there was constant breakage and changes from release to release. Luckily gtk3 is now considered stable so we no longer have to deal with that and with gtk4 and moving forward the gnome devs are changing the way versioning and releases happen to hopefully mitigate a lot of that. When gtk4 support is needed you will then see themes having a gtk-4.0 folder.

In a way window border theming is just as bad. Different DE's support all kinds of different things. Mate and Cinnamon support metacity at different levels, Xfce uses what's known as a xfwm4 theme and things like gnome shell don't use a separate window border theme at all. Themes for window borders for Cinnamon and Mate will be found in the themes folder inside the metacity-1 directory. Inside you will find files called metacity-theme-1.xml. The one can be a two or three depending on the versions of metacity it supports. Like anything else the different versions support different "features" so many themes will include all 3. Cinnamon for example only officially supports metacity themes that provide a metacity-3 version. Mate with marco only supports ones that include a 1 or 2 version. Other window managers you can use in Mate like metacity or compiz probably support different levels. See what a pain this becomes :)

You can find other things in a themes directory as well and these are usually support for other DE's. You might find a Cinnamon folder, one for shell, openbox, emerald, etc. To be honest, it's a freaking mess.

Not sure if that helped at all or just made it worse :) Feel free to ask if you have more specific questions. I'll try to answer.
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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by JosephM » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:43 pm

If a theme is written for GTK 3.22, does that mean it could be used on Cinnamon or Mate?
Yes. However, as noted above, how much the actual gtk theme controls will depend on the desktop environment it's installed in.
When I give opinions, they are my own. Not necessarily those of any other Linux Mint developer or the Linux Mint project as a whole.

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by smurphos » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:12 am

Pepi wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:39 pm
From what I've tried none of these themes will change the Window Borders. So it appears you have a choice of three ONLY and the only way to make them bigger is by increasing the Title Font :| Think I'm sticking to the old Cinnamon
Well the good news that a very quick test of applying the unsupported 18.3 Metacity themes in 19 Cinnamon via gsettings is that they all apply with no immediate problems apparent.....

Having sourced the relevant theme folders from an 18.3 install /usr/share/themes and putting them into ~/.themes on a 19 install HighContrast is supported and available to select from the Themes App - the others need command line...

Code: Select all

gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme AgingGorilla
gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme Atlanta
gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme Bright
gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme Crux
gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme Esco
gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme Metabox
gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme Simple
@JosephM - thanks for taking the time for the detailed explanations.
For custom Nemo actions, useful scripts for the Cinnamon desktop, and Cinnamox themes visit my Github pages.

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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by JosephM » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:53 am

Well the good news that a very quick test of applying the unsupported 18.3 Metacity themes in 19 Cinnamon via gsettings is that they all apply with no immediate problems apparent.....
There are issues with some of those. Can't remember which exactly but you will see some of them being drawn with invisible/transparent areas where they should be colored by a background color. It's easily fixed in the themes themselves with just a bit of digging.
@JosephM - thanks for taking the time for the detailed explanations.
You're welcome though I'll freely admit I'm not the best at explaining things ;)
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Re: Window Borders with Mint 19 Cinnamon

Post by Pepi » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:33 am

smurphos wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:12 am
Pepi wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:39 pm
From what I've tried none of these themes will change the Window Borders. So it appears you have a choice of three ONLY and the only way to make them bigger is by increasing the Title Font :| Think I'm sticking to the old Cinnamon
Well the good news that a very quick test of applying the unsupported 18.3 Metacity themes in 19 Cinnamon via gsettings is that they all apply with no immediate problems apparent.....

Having sourced the relevant theme folders from an 18.3 install /usr/share/themes and putting them into ~/.themes on a 19 install HighContrast is supported and available to select from the Themes App - the others need command line...

Code: Select all

gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme AgingGorilla
gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme Atlanta
gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme Bright
gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme Crux
gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme Esco
gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme Metabox
gsettings set org.cinnamon.desktop.wm.preferences theme Simple
@JosephM - thanks for taking the time for the detailed explanations.
This is what I found also. Atlanta will work from the command line but the boxes are all Black ... Oh well and thanks JosephM for explaining all this. I actually understand how all this works now !!

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