Linux Mint and laptops

All Gurus once were Newbies
Forum rules
There are no such things as "stupid" questions. However if you think your question is a bit stupid, then this is the right place for you to post it. Please stick to easy to-the-point questions that you feel people can answer fast. For long and complicated questions prefer the other forums within the support section.
Before you post please read how to get help
trope
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:10 pm

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by trope » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:46 am

Reorx wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:19 pm
How many tabs do you routinely keep open in your browser (2GB?!?!?!?)
There is something wrong with the way the browser is designed, I looked it up and the issue of using too much memory has been reported. I typically use 8-10 tabs, I don't think it is too many. If it the memory usage is still high after I updated it, then will switch to another browser.

I use a couple applications frequently in Windows 7 that there are no linux equivalents to. For convenience I leave it open all the time. But if it is so memory intensive I will open and close it when needed.
Reorx wrote: 3) If you want to be able to hibernate your laptop, use a SWAP size a little larger than your RAM size. On my 8GB laptop I use a 9GB SWAP. If you don't ever hibernate, you could use a smaller SWAP and use the disk space in / or /home.
Don't increase your SWAP. In order to get more disk space available, delete or move data off the drive. Video files have a tendency to be bulky - remove as able.
These 2 pieces of advice seem to conflict. You said that to use hibernate, I would have to increase the swap? I am thinking it would be better and more efficient to use hibernate instead of suspend.

User avatar
Reorx
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3904
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: SE Florida, USA

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by Reorx » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:59 pm

trope wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:46 am
Reorx wrote: 3) If you want to be able to hibernate your laptop, use a SWAP size a little larger than your RAM size. On my 8GB laptop I use a 9GB SWAP. If you don't ever hibernate, you could use a smaller SWAP and use the disk space in / or /home.
Don't increase your SWAP. In order to get more disk space available, delete or move data off the drive. Video files have a tendency to be bulky - remove as able.
These 2 pieces of advice seem to conflict. You said that to use hibernate, I would have to increase the swap? I am thinking it would be better and more efficient to use hibernate instead of suspend.
Absolutely correct... I believe that to change your swap size at this point in the adventure is ill advised. You would have to manipulate partitions which is something that I am NOT recommending now. I was referring to if you were planning a new install, this might be a consideration. At this point, my best advice is to back up all existing data and then free up some space on the HD as I recommended earlier. If you don't hibernate already, I am not recommending that you start now... and hibernate vs suspend is not related to the original topic of performance...
Full time Linux Mint user since 2011 - Currently running LM17C64 on my production machines.
Currently testing LM19C64 - Lookin' good so far!
Image Image

trope
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:10 pm

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by trope » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:10 am

Reorx wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:59 pm
Absolutely correct... I believe that to change your swap size at this point in the adventure is ill advised. You would have to manipulate partitions which is something that I am NOT recommending now. I was referring to if you were planning a new install, this might be a consideration. At this point, my best advice is to back up all existing data and then free up some space on the HD as I recommended earlier. If you don't hibernate already, I am not recommending that you start now... and hibernate vs suspend is not related to the original topic of performance...
I am planning a new install/transfer of my data to another computer that has 4 GB of memory, but I will upgrade it to 8; should I initially create a 9 GB swap when installing mint? I don't remember making the decision before but since I have a 8 GB swap now, it must have been default in the mint installation. I did some reading online and see recommendations for the swap to be twice the RAM. This is not necessary anymore?

I see another post recommending 20% of RAM as swap: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=274157#p1504040

User avatar
BG405
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1545
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:09 pm
Location: England

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by BG405 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:59 am

trope wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:10 am
but I will upgrade it to 8; should I initially create a 9 GB swap when installing mint?
9 or 10 GB should be fine. As for the Win7 VM, you can save its state & quickly resume when needed, if you need to free up resources. One of my installs has a number of VMs "saved" ready to fire up.

On low RAM machines the RAM vs swap ratio changes a bit (especially with with modern usage); on my netbook with 2GB RAM, I've assigned 10GB swap. The Dell which I'm replying from really needs a bigger swap, having 3GB RAM & 4GB swap at present. Looking for more RAM for this one.
Dell Inspiron 1525 - LM17.3 CE 64-------------------Acer D255E 2GB - Manjaro KDE, LM17.3 KDE 32
Toshiba NB305 - Manjaro KDE------------------------K7S5A AMD 1.2GHz - LM17.3 Xfce 32 & WinXP-Pro
Acer Aspire E11 ES1-111M - LM18.2 KDE 64 ----Dell PII 350 64MB - Puppy 4.3 & Win98-SE

User avatar
Hap
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by Hap » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:29 am

Hi,

Got a 2008~2010 Dell Precision Core2Duo bought 20€ two year ago because "Windows is too slow, bought a new one". I cleaned it up, threw an SSD and 4 GB ram, Installed Mint XFCE with no problem whatsoever.

It got 6 USB, bluetooth, 5Ghz wifi and a GigaEthernet adapter all recognized directly by Mint. No HDMI though.
Everything still works perfectly for Web browsing, Youtubing, I don't Facebook but it should manage it, OpenOffice work like a charm and it starts in 5 secs.

I'm not really cautious with my laptops, I went through 2 Toshiba, 2 Msi, 1 Asus ( not in that order ) and all suffered various overheating, hinges and screen problems.

If you have nothing against second hand laptop, I can't recommend the Precision series enough. A bit heavy but tough and cheap.

User avatar
Reorx
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3904
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: SE Florida, USA

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by Reorx » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:12 pm

trope wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:10 am
I am planning a new install/transfer of my data to another computer that has 4 GB of memory, but I will upgrade it to 8; should I initially create a 9 GB swap when installing mint? I don't remember making the decision before but since I have a 8 GB swap now, it must have been default in the mint installation. I did some reading online and see recommendations for the swap to be twice the RAM. This is not necessary anymore?

I see another post recommending 20% of RAM as swap: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=274157#p1504040
Swap size is an interesting topic for conversation. MY formula (based on MY style of computing) for swap size is RAM + 1GB because, on a laptop, I want the ability to hibernate - this might be important if you are running on battery and you battery gets low and you don't notice it until the machine gives you the "I'm about to hibernate" warning and you know there is not enough time to shut down in an orderly fashion... the machine will hibernate and when you get it to AC power again, you can resume your session. I never intentionally hibernate any of my machines...

On a desktop machine that will never hibernate, for MY computing style, on a machine with 8GB of RAM, I would use probably about 2 GB of swap size.

Swap is the kind of thing that I want as little as possible that will still get the job done without crashing or disaster... You can change the size of the SWAP partition without consequence when it is not hibernated and not in use... with this in mind. On your new install, make the SWAP partition size initially as large as you could ever (within reason) need - 25 GB strikes me as a good initial size with 8 GB of RAM (but it's YOUR call). Then create all your other partitions and do the installation... After the installation is complete and updated, shut down without hibernating. Then boot the machine to the Live USB stick, start Gparted and shrink the SWAP partition to whatever size you want to test out... say 10 GB... apply the change and shut down... then boot the HD installed OS and run with your 10 GB SWAP partition. If it works great and you are happy, your done. If you are not happy with 10 GB of SWAP, boot that Live USB and change it to whatever you like. Rinse and repeat as necessary...

Best of luck with your new install! :mrgreen:

- R -
Full time Linux Mint user since 2011 - Currently running LM17C64 on my production machines.
Currently testing LM19C64 - Lookin' good so far!
Image Image

User avatar
catweazel
Level 17
Level 17
Posts: 7751
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: Australian Antarctic Territory

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by catweazel » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:32 pm

michael louwe wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:01 am
Avoid Acer, Asus and HP, ...

...an obstructive or pro-M$ BIOS Setup...
Why make an unqualified assertion like that just to promote FUD? I just installed Mint 19 on a brand spanking new HP Pavilion 15-cs0041nr and on a brand spanking new, high end Asus VivoBook Pro N580VD, without a single hiccup. Absolutely everything works, right out of the box.

Intel developed the EFI specification, not Microsoft.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

User avatar
michael louwe
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2780
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:18 pm

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by michael louwe » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:04 am

catweazel wrote:Intel developed the EFI specification, not Microsoft.
Yes, but who mandated UEFI in modern OEM computers.?

Linus Torvald developed Linux. Who mandated the Anti-Fragmentation Agreement for Android, a Linux derivative, in modern OEM smartphones and tablets.? Who trademarked Red Hat Linux Enterprise.?

User avatar
catweazel
Level 17
Level 17
Posts: 7751
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: Australian Antarctic Territory

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by catweazel » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:17 am

michael louwe wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:04 am
catweazel wrote:Intel developed the EFI specification, not Microsoft.
Yes, but who mandated UEFI in modern OEM computers.?
Someone has to make the first move otherwise we'd all still be using rocks and abaci.
Linus Torvald developed Linux. Who mandated the Anti-Fragmentation Agreement for Android, a Linux derivative, in modern OEM smartphones and tablets.? Who trademarked Red Hat Linux Enterprise?
I don't care enough to find out. What I care about is FUD not spreading on the forum.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

User avatar
michael louwe
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2780
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:18 pm

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by michael louwe » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:29 am

catweazel wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:17 am
michael louwe wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:04 am
catweazel wrote:Intel developed the EFI specification, not Microsoft.
Yes, but who mandated UEFI in modern OEM computers.?
Someone has to make the first move otherwise we'd all still be using rocks and abaci.
So says someone who is using open-source software.
.
Modern UEFI firmware is a closed-source, proprietary blob of software baked into your PC’s hardware. This binary blob even includes remote management and monitoring features, which make it a potential security and privacy threat.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2883903 ... mware.html

User avatar
catweazel
Level 17
Level 17
Posts: 7751
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: Australian Antarctic Territory

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by catweazel » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:43 am

michael louwe wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:29 am
catweazel wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:17 am
michael louwe wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:04 am

Yes, but who mandated UEFI in modern OEM computers.?
Someone has to make the first move otherwise we'd all still be using rocks and abaci.
So says someone who is using open-source software.
.
Modern UEFI firmware is a closed-source, proprietary blob of software baked into your PC’s hardware. This binary blob even includes remote management and monitoring features, which make it a potential security and privacy threat.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2883903 ... mware.html
If it matters to you so much, don't use UEFI-based hardware. It's that simple. I'm out of this thread. It's detracted enough from the OP's needs.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

trope
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:10 pm

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by trope » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:30 pm

Reorx wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:12 pm
trope wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:10 am
I am planning a new install/transfer of my data to another computer that has 4 GB of memory, but I will upgrade it to 8; should I initially create a 9 GB swap when installing mint? I don't remember making the decision before but since I have a 8 GB swap now, it must have been default in the mint installation. I did some reading online and see recommendations for the swap to be twice the RAM. This is not necessary anymore?

I see another post recommending 20% of RAM as swap: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=274157#p1504040
Swap size is an interesting topic for conversation. MY formula (based on MY style of computing) for swap size is RAM + 1GB because, on a laptop, I want the ability to hibernate - this might be important if you are running on battery and you battery gets low and you don't notice it until the machine gives you the "I'm about to hibernate" warning and you know there is not enough time to shut down in an orderly fashion... the machine will hibernate and when you get it to AC power again, you can resume your session. I never intentionally hibernate any of my machines...

On a desktop machine that will never hibernate, for MY computing style, on a machine with 8GB of RAM, I would use probably about 2 GB of swap size.

Swap is the kind of thing that I want as little as possible that will still get the job done without crashing or disaster... You can change the size of the SWAP partition without consequence when it is not hibernated and not in use... with this in mind. On your new install, make the SWAP partition size initially as large as you could ever (within reason) need - 25 GB strikes me as a good initial size with 8 GB of RAM (but it's YOUR call). Then create all your other partitions and do the installation... After the installation is complete and updated, shut down without hibernating. Then boot the machine to the Live USB stick, start Gparted and shrink the SWAP partition to whatever size you want to test out... say 10 GB... apply the change and shut down... then boot the HD installed OS and run with your 10 GB SWAP partition. If it works great and you are happy, your done. If you are not happy with 10 GB of SWAP, boot that Live USB and change it to whatever you like. Rinse and repeat as necessary...

Best of luck with your new install! :mrgreen:

- R -
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but if I use RAM + 1 GB, then that would be a 5 GB swap, but then you say you would suggest a 25 GB swap?? I mentioned the new laptop has 4 GB RAM currently. This instruction about Gparted and USB is too complicated, I'm not sure what I'd be looking for anyway. But presumably from your instructions it is possible to change the swap size later? Since I do not see it when I run "df -h" on my current laptop, it must mean that the swap has to do with LVM?

Regarding hibernation, my use case is that I will use the laptop, then may not use it for 2-6 hours, and would like to continue where I left off, is hibernate the best option or should I use suspend instead? I'm not sure why you stated you never hibernate any of your machines.

User avatar
catweazel
Level 17
Level 17
Posts: 7751
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: Australian Antarctic Territory

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by catweazel » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:53 pm

trope wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:30 pm
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but if I use RAM + 1 GB, then that would be a 5 GB swap, but then you say you would suggest a 25 GB swap??
Ignore it. I seriously doubt anyone using linux on a laptop or desktop "could ever (within reason) need - 25 GB". RAM + 1GB is a good measure. Use that.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

User avatar
Reorx
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3904
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: SE Florida, USA

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by Reorx » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:57 am

trope wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:30 pm
Maybe I am misunderstanding...
Trope;

I am sorry for confusing things. If you are not understanding what I am getting at and find Gparted too complicated, please disregard everything I have written. DO NOT try to implement anything I have suggested.

Once again, sorry for the confusion.

- R -
Full time Linux Mint user since 2011 - Currently running LM17C64 on my production machines.
Currently testing LM19C64 - Lookin' good so far!
Image Image

User avatar
Reorx
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3904
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: SE Florida, USA

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by Reorx » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:29 am

catweazel wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:53 pm
Ignore it. I seriously doubt anyone using linux on a laptop or desktop "could ever (within reason) need - 25 GB". RAM + 1GB is a good measure. Use that.
Agreed x 2... The recommendation of 25 GB was supposed to be absurdly large! If he starts out with 4 GB of RAM, a 5 GB SWAP would probably work just fine... but if he then upgrades the RAM to 8 GB and if there are partitions abutting the SWAP partition, enlarging SWAP at that point would be difficult or impossible... Theoretically, if he starts out with a 5 GB SWAP partition but leaves unallocated space adjacent to SWAP to allow for its easy expansion if need be, that would work but some folks would find that to be confusing. I thought making the SWAP partition too large initially and later shrinking it to a reasonable size would be easier to understand and do than setting up SWAP with adjacent unallocated space initially...

As it seems that he is not comfortable with manual disk partitioning (using Gparted), any custom partitioning scheme is essentially impossible. Install routine partitioning options may leave him wanting but unable to increase SWAP size if he later increases his RAM space - depending on if and/or how his computing habits change...

Best,

- R -
Full time Linux Mint user since 2011 - Currently running LM17C64 on my production machines.
Currently testing LM19C64 - Lookin' good so far!
Image Image

User avatar
catweazel
Level 17
Level 17
Posts: 7751
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: Australian Antarctic Territory

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by catweazel » Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:20 am

Reorx wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:29 am
catweazel wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:53 pm
Ignore it. I seriously doubt anyone using linux on a laptop or desktop "could ever (within reason) need - 25 GB". RAM + 1GB is a good measure. Use that.
Agreed x 2... The recommendation of 25 GB was supposed to be absurdly large! If he starts out with 4 GB of RAM, a 5 GB SWAP would probably work just fine... but if he then upgrades the RAM to 8 GB and if there are partitions abutting the SWAP partition, enlarging SWAP at that point would be difficult or impossible... Theoretically, if he starts out with a 5 GB SWAP partition but leaves unallocated space adjacent to SWAP to allow for its easy expansion if need be, that would work but some folks would find that to be confusing. I thought making the SWAP partition too large initially and later shrinking it to a reasonable size would be easier to understand and do than setting up SWAP with adjacent unallocated space initially...
That's all fair, though resizing swap is very easy with a live USB and gparted.

Cheers.

PS: There was a poster here just yesterday with 49.15GB swap.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

User avatar
Reorx
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3904
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: SE Florida, USA

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by Reorx » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:28 pm

catweazel wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:20 am
That's all fair, though resizing swap is very easy with a live USB and gparted...
I know... now explain that to Trope! :P
catweazel wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:20 am
...PS: There was a poster here just yesterday with 49.15GB swap.
Mainframe computer??? :lol:
Full time Linux Mint user since 2011 - Currently running LM17C64 on my production machines.
Currently testing LM19C64 - Lookin' good so far!
Image Image

trope
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:10 pm

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by trope » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:37 pm

And my question regarding whether I should use hibernate vs. suspend? Only find different opinions about it online.

User avatar
Reorx
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3904
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: SE Florida, USA

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by Reorx » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:50 pm

trope wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:37 pm
And my question regarding whether I should use hibernate vs. suspend? Only find different opinions about it online.
Yep, opinions vary. I never intentionally use either.
Full time Linux Mint user since 2011 - Currently running LM17C64 on my production machines.
Currently testing LM19C64 - Lookin' good so far!
Image Image

User avatar
BG405
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1545
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:09 pm
Location: England

Re: Linux Mint and laptops

Post by BG405 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:30 pm

trope wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:37 pm
whether I should use hibernate vs. suspend?
Hibernate, if it actually works OK on your system, is very valuable when you're running on battery & need to resume your session.

Suspend can also be used but as it requires a small amount of power to maintain RAM state etc. therefore will slowly drain the battery; it is useful where you have access to mains power without long periods unplugged and allows very fast resume. I tend to use suspend for this reason, but have access to mains sockets at all locations so the small loss of charge isn't an issue .. maybe the battery wear is, though. Where the machine needs to be left unplugged for any length of time I hibernate, when needed.
Dell Inspiron 1525 - LM17.3 CE 64-------------------Acer D255E 2GB - Manjaro KDE, LM17.3 KDE 32
Toshiba NB305 - Manjaro KDE------------------------K7S5A AMD 1.2GHz - LM17.3 Xfce 32 & WinXP-Pro
Acer Aspire E11 ES1-111M - LM18.2 KDE 64 ----Dell PII 350 64MB - Puppy 4.3 & Win98-SE

Post Reply

Return to “Newbie Questions”