What's the difference with Flathub package?

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overkill22
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What's the difference with Flathub package?

Post by overkill22 »

While installing software using Software Manager I noticed there are two versions of the same package (in my case "Meld").
One is "normal", the other is named Flathub.

What's the difference between the two?
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ajgringo619

Re: What's the difference with Flathub package?

Post by ajgringo619 »

Flatpak is a alternate package manager, specializing in the latest software in a "sandboxed" environment. Unless you need the "latest-and-greatest", you're better off using the normal Mint version. Also, because Flatpak's programs are independent of the OS, it tends to require a lot more overhead (shared libraries that are already part of Mint need to be downloaded as part of the Flatpak installation).

On the positive side, Flatpak uses the same software source on all Linux platforms, so if you do distro hop or have a few VMs then you'll be guaranteed to be using the same version.
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Re: What's the difference with Flathub package?

Post by overkill22 »

ajgringo619 wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:33 pm Flatpak is a alternate package manager, specializing in the latest software in a "sandboxed" environment. Unless you need the "latest-and-greatest", you're better off using the normal Mint version. Also, because Flatpak's programs are independent of the OS, it tends to require a lot more overhead (shared libraries that are already part of Mint need to be downloaded as part of the Flatpak installation).

On the positive side, Flatpak uses the same software source on all Linux platforms, so if you do distro hop or have a few VMs then you'll be guaranteed to be using the same version.
Thanks. So it is only a matter of downloading or installing the non-flatpak version of the software, correct?
ajgringo619

Re: What's the difference with Flathub package?

Post by ajgringo619 »

Yes.
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Re: What's the difference with Flathub package?

Post by overkill22 »

and another question, I have few apps installed as flatpak, having one of them installed, means I have few GB of "useless" library installed too?
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Re: What's the difference with Flathub package?

Post by overkill22 »

in /var/lib/flatpak the folder is 3.1GB of which 2.7GB is /runtime
ajgringo619

Re: What's the difference with Flathub package?

Post by ajgringo619 »

No. Flatpak libraries are shared amongst other Flatpak apps, just like Mint libraries ares shared amongst Mint apps. For example, if you decided to install the latest Gimp, Flatpak would require the Gnome platform libraries (1+ GB). Once that's installed, any new programs that require Gnome are comparable in size to the normal deb packages (because Mint installs the Gnome libraries from the beginning).

It really depends on what you want and what you're willing to give up. Yes, Flatpaks are generally more disk-space intensive; for me, this is not an issue. One caveat - if you decide to use Flatpak (or any other alternative package system) you'll need to increase / to accommodate them (/var/lib/flatpak is the default location for Flatpak shared libraries). I'll say this - with 5 Flatpak apps installed and Timeshift storing its snapshots on / (using BTRFS) and using snap, my / partition is still under 22 GB.
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Re: What's the difference with Flathub package?

Post by overkill22 »

ajgringo619 wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:38 pm No. Flatpak libraries are shared amongst other Flatpak apps, just like Mint libraries ares shared amongst Mint apps. For example, if you decided to install the latest Gimp, Flatpak would require the Gnome platform libraries (1+ GB). Once that's installed, any new programs that require Gnome are comparable in size to the normal deb packages (because Mint installs the Gnome libraries from the beginning).

It really depends on what you want and what you're willing to give up. Yes, Flatpaks are generally more disk-space intensive; for me, this is not an issue. One caveat - if you decide to use Flatpak (or any other alternative package system) you'll need to increase / to accommodate them (/var/lib/flatpak is the default location for Flatpak shared libraries). I'll say this - with 5 Flatpak apps installed and Timeshift storing its snapshots on / (using BTRFS) and using snap, my / partition is still under 22 GB.
It's becoming more clear now. It seems that flatpak is kind of a disk-space-eater.
I will have to reinstall mint 19 and don't install ANY apps that are flatpak.
In the install manager this is misleading because all the reviews are on the flatpak version of the app. that induce a average/noob user (like me) to pick the app that looks more reliable (in this case with more reviews, icon, etc) that is flatpak.

Question: are the NON flatpak version in the Software Manager all compatible with mint with no additional libraries to be installed?

I have installed the kde platform that takes more than 1Gb, probably because I installed SMplayer. now I uninstalled it, but the library is stilll there. How can I get rid of the folder?

SNAP, what's that?

Do you suggest to keep on using flatpak, or just stick to the normal Mint apps?
ajgringo619

Re: What's the difference with Flathub package?

Post by ajgringo619 »

Again, that depends on you. If you need/want a new feature, use Flatpak. Also, sometimes the Mint repos have very old versions of programs that for some reason Ubuntu never bothered to upgrade. I had this happen with a program called "Okular". With as cheap as disk space is, an extra 3-5 GB of libraries is a drop in the bucket.

Snap is another alternative package manager. It also needs to install shared libraries, but it's more focused on what each package needs. For example, when a Flatpak needs ANY part of the Gnome platform libraries, it downloads the whole thing; slow at first, but quick with subsequent installs. Snap only grabs what it needs, which may or may not work for the next package install.

Mint does not install every library, so some programs will install additional packages as required.

When you uninstalled SMplayer, it probably left behind the KDE libraries. Uninstall it as you did SMplayer:

Code: Select all

flatpak uninstall library_name
I don't have that library installed, so you'll need to get the name yourself:

Code: Select all

flatpak list
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Re: What's the difference with Flathub package?

Post by slipstick »

In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they ain't.
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Re: What's the difference with Flathub package?

Post by overkill22 »

ajgringo619 wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:53 pm Again, that depends on you. If you need/want a new feature, use Flatpak. Also, sometimes the Mint repos have very old versions of programs that for some reason Ubuntu never bothered to upgrade. I had this happen with a program called "Okular". With as cheap as disk space is, an extra 3-5 GB of libraries is a drop in the bucket.

Snap is another alternative package manager. It also needs to install shared libraries, but it's more focused on what each package needs. For example, when a Flatpak needs ANY part of the Gnome platform libraries, it downloads the whole thing; slow at first, but quick with subsequent installs. Snap only grabs what it needs, which may or may not work for the next package install.

Mint does not install every library, so some programs will install additional packages as required.

When you uninstalled SMplayer, it probably left behind the KDE libraries. Uninstall it as you did SMplayer:

Code: Select all

flatpak uninstall library_name
I don't have that library installed, so you'll need to get the name yourself:

Code: Select all

flatpak list
Thanks, this is useful. How do I know if the library I want to uninstall is used by another app?
ajgringo619

Re: What's the difference with Flathub package?

Post by ajgringo619 »

You'll be notified. I just ran a test, tried to remove org.gnome.Platform. Here were the results:

Code: Select all

flatpak list    # just to show what apps I have installed
Ref                                                  Options       
com.visualstudio.code/x86_64/stable                  system,current
fr.free.Homebank/x86_64/stable                       system,current
org.blender.Blender/x86_64/stable                    system,current
org.gimp.GIMP/x86_64/stable                          system,current
org.libreoffice.LibreOffice/x86_64/stable            system,current
org.freedesktop.Platform.GL.nvidia-396-54/x86_64/1.4 system,runtime
org.freedesktop.Platform.ffmpeg/x86_64/1.6           system,runtime
org.freedesktop.Platform/x86_64/1.6                  system,runtime
org.freedesktop.Sdk/x86_64/1.6                       system,runtime
org.gnome.Platform/x86_64/3.28                       system,runtime
org.gtk.Gtk3theme.Mint-Y-Dark/x86_64/3.22            system,runtime
org.gtk.Gtk3theme.Mint-Y-Darker/x86_64/3.22          system,runtime
org.gtk.Gtk3theme.Mint-Y/x86_64/3.22                 system,runtime

flatpak uninstall org.gnome.Platform
Uninstalling from system:
org.gnome.Platform/x86_64/3.28
org.gnome.Platform.Locale/x86_64/3.28
Is this ok [y/n]: y
Uninstalling: org.gnome.Platform/x86_64/3.28
error: Failed to uninstall org.gnome.Platform/x86_64/3.28: Can't remove org.gnome.Platform/x86_64/3.28, it is needed for: fr.free.Homebank/x86_64/stable, org.gimp.GIMP/x86_64/stable
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Re: What's the difference with Flathub package?

Post by overkill22 »

ajgringo619 wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:55 am You'll be notified. I just ran a test, tried to remove org.gnome.Platform. Here were the results:

Code: Select all

flatpak list    # just to show what apps I have installed
Ref                                                  Options       
com.visualstudio.code/x86_64/stable                  system,current
fr.free.Homebank/x86_64/stable                       system,current
org.blender.Blender/x86_64/stable                    system,current
org.gimp.GIMP/x86_64/stable                          system,current
org.libreoffice.LibreOffice/x86_64/stable            system,current
org.freedesktop.Platform.GL.nvidia-396-54/x86_64/1.4 system,runtime
org.freedesktop.Platform.ffmpeg/x86_64/1.6           system,runtime
org.freedesktop.Platform/x86_64/1.6                  system,runtime
org.freedesktop.Sdk/x86_64/1.6                       system,runtime
org.gnome.Platform/x86_64/3.28                       system,runtime
org.gtk.Gtk3theme.Mint-Y-Dark/x86_64/3.22            system,runtime
org.gtk.Gtk3theme.Mint-Y-Darker/x86_64/3.22          system,runtime
org.gtk.Gtk3theme.Mint-Y/x86_64/3.22                 system,runtime

flatpak uninstall org.gnome.Platform
Uninstalling from system:
org.gnome.Platform/x86_64/3.28
org.gnome.Platform.Locale/x86_64/3.28
Is this ok [y/n]: y
Uninstalling: org.gnome.Platform/x86_64/3.28
error: Failed to uninstall org.gnome.Platform/x86_64/3.28: Can't remove org.gnome.Platform/x86_64/3.28, it is needed for: fr.free.Homebank/x86_64/stable, org.gimp.GIMP/x86_64/stable
I tried and didn't get any error. I was able to uninstall almost all of the libraries.. :/
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