Consequences of using an older kernel

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Doctor Funkenstein
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Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by Doctor Funkenstein » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:39 pm

Hello all,

If I use any kernel version beyond 4.15.0-29-generic my internet doesn't work on my netbook. I was just wondering what repercussions this will have (currently using Mint 19 w/MATE desktop environment).

If I should install something like Lubuntu instead, is there any way I can put all the available Linux drivers for wireless hardware on a flash drive? This netbook does not have an Ethernet port, so if Lubuntu comes without drivers (as it did on my 32 bit machine) I'm screwed.

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by AZgl1500 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:51 pm

The purist amongst us, will proclaim that Death and Destruction will Raineth upon us by doing so.

Me?
the 1 in a 10 million percent chance that someone stumbles on my lowly laptop while I am cruising the internet is so remote, as to be a joke.

I set up a laptop for my sister to use, she is 1300 miles away, so hands on maintenance is impossible.

so, I setup a crontab job to install all of the Security Related updates, and ignored the kernel.
I don't trust kernel updates, because I have seen first hand how they can literally break your daily driver...

and sis and hubby have gone about their surfing business, happy as a duck in the water, and the Mint 18.3 Cinnamon is up todate mostly....

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by WharfRat » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:01 pm

AZgl1500 wrote:The purist amongst us, will proclaim that Death and Destruction will Raineth upon us by doing so.
I'm not a purist so I'll proclaim that there is no substitute for something that works.

The only consequence is you will not have the latest hardware support and security updates.

Not that the latest wifi driver updates helped you in any way :?
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Doctor Funkenstein
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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by Doctor Funkenstein » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:27 pm

Oh okay, that's awesome. Yeah, I'm not super concerned about security...worst case they'll find out about my guilty pleasure Zydeco music...

Can someone link me to a guide to set ...29 as my default?

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by AZgl1500 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:57 pm

WharfRat wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:01 pm
AZgl1500 wrote:The purist amongst us, will proclaim that Death and Destruction will Raineth upon us by doing so.
I'm not a purist so I'll proclaim that there is no substitute for something that works.

The only consequence is you will not have the latest hardware support and security updates.

Not that the latest wifi driver updates helped you in any way :?
In my particular case, none of the kernels support my WiFi adapter,
so I am very touchy about kernel updates.....

a lot of Kudos go to @JeremyB for creating a special script for my WiFi problem....
since then I have installed 1 new kernel and the WiFi is still working.

for my sister? 1300 miles away?
uh, no, I am not risking a bad kernel to cripple her laptop.

when I next see her next year, I will update the kernel, so,
an annual kernel update is the best that one pc is going to see.

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by WharfRat » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:22 pm

sudo apt-mark hold linux-headers-4.15.0-29 linux-headers-4.15.0-29-generic linux-image-4.15.0-29-generic linux-modules-4.15.0-29-generic linux-modules-extra-4.15.0-29-generic
will place the updates for the kernel image, modules and headers on hold which will prevent the packages from being automatically installed, upgraded or removed.

If worse comes to worse you can always reinstall 4.15.0-29-generic.
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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by snowflake » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:15 am

I also have that kernel update-phobia lol, & erm..dont wanna hijack the topic .. so
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=279183

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by AZgl1500 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:25 am

Doctor Funkenstein wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:27 pm

Can someone link me to a guide to set ...29 as my default?
if you remove all kernels above ....29, it will automatically become the default.
use Update Manager to do that for you,
  • View Kernels
    Select the proper group,
    then start at the top of the list, and remove them one, by one, until -29 is the topmost kernel listed, and it should also be shown as "Active"
hopefully you still have at least one more installed below -29 as a backup just in case '29' hiccups.

Make sure, that in Update Manager Preferences that Kernel Updates are not automatically selected : installed.

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by AscLinux » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:11 am

Reading this thread and wondering.

Handling the kernel configuration and enabling drivers for hardware used to be a basic skill of any *nix admin and user.
Nowadays it seems to become separated - users and admins. Mint developers do the admin work and users rely on it. And there is no direct feedback. In past, when admin changed something and the change broke a functionality for users they picked up the phone or emailed the admin and let him know.
FYI, anyone can still use a custom kernel with Mint. It is not rocket science.
I recall when I made my first contact with Linux I was completely in dark, like most new Mint users today. I had a Gravis Ultrasound sound card and to make it work I had to patch the kernel. It was all complete terra incongnita for me. In addition, the documentation available to me was in English and I knew maybe 10 words in English. So I had to learn a new language, *nix basics and the whole new concept of building and compiling all the same time. I made it and I do not consider myself some sort of geeky genius.
You can do it, too. Instead of workarounds suggested in this thread you can take control.

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by JeremyB » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:26 am

A better fix for you wifi is

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install git build-essential dkms
git clone https://github.com/lwfinger/rtlwifi_new.git
sudo dkms add ./rtlwifi_new
sudo dkms install rtlwifi-new/0.6
I was hoping the issue would be fixed quickly in the kernel
The dkms will build a good wifi module while a new kernel is installed

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by Doctor Funkenstein » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:01 pm

JeremyB wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:26 am
A better fix for you wifi is

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install git build-essential dkms
git clone https://github.com/lwfinger/rtlwifi_new.git
sudo dkms add ./rtlwifi_new
sudo dkms install rtlwifi-new/0.6
I was hoping the issue would be fixed quickly in the kernel
The dkms will build a good wifi module while a new kernel is installed
Jeremy, is there any way to undo this? I tried it first while still running .29, which broke it, and then again on .36, which did not work either. Maybe mine has a different problem.

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by JeremyB » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:27 pm

If .36 was already installed while you were on 29, you might have to do

Code: Select all

sudo dkms install rtlwifi-new/0.6 -k 4.15.0-36-generic
See what happens

Doctor Funkenstein
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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by Doctor Funkenstein » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:50 pm

JeremyB wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:27 pm
If .36 was already installed while you were on 29, you might have to do

Code: Select all

sudo dkms install rtlwifi-new/0.6 -k 4.15.0-36-generic
See what happens
It returned

Code: Select all

Module rtlwifi-new/0.6 already installed on kernel 4.15.0-36-generic/x86_64

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by JeremyB » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:55 pm

While in -29 do

Code: Select all

cd ~
wget -N -t 5 -T 10 https://github.com/UbuntuForums/wireless-info/raw/master/wireless-info && chmod +x wireless-info
Boot in to -36 and do

Code: Select all

./wireless-info
Then with internet connection

Code: Select all

cat wireless-info.txt | nc termbin.com 9999

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by Doctor Funkenstein » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:15 am

It returned this link: http://termbin.com/8v8x

I did step 1 with kernel version ...24 since ...29 doesn't have a connection now

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by JeremyB » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:26 am

What result for

Code: Select all

modinfo /lib/modules/4.15.0-36-generic/updates/rtl8723_common.ko

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by Hoser Rob » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:06 am

AZgl1500 wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:51 pm
The purist amongst us, will proclaim that Death and Destruction will Raineth upon us by doing so.....
LOL, though I may have used 'paranoid' instead of 'purist'. I think some of these newer scares are vastly overblown, and that using a new kernel that breaks your system to the point it's unusable will make it perhaps too safe.

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by AZgl1500 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:24 pm

Hoser Rob wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:06 am
AZgl1500 wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:51 pm
The purist amongst us, will proclaim that Death and Destruction will Raineth upon us by doing so.....
LOL, though I may have used 'paranoid' instead of 'purist'. I think some of these newer scares are vastly overblown, and that using a new kernel that breaks your system to the point it's unusable will make it perhaps too safe.
yeah, 'purist' was what rolled off the Fingertips, before the brain got in gear and started thinking :mrgreen:

IMO, this is all blown way out of proportion to the actual security that 'might be' involved.
even after exploits have been broadcast to the winds, I have never, ever, seen one that infiltrated my PC, and up until a year ago, that was a Windoze PC...... I just ran the usual Avast or other free AV program and let it proclaim how many 1000 hits it had saved me from. :lol: :lol: :lol:

this laptop I am using for my Daily Driver is running a crontab job to install any and all updates that are available as of 12 noon each day. it is never turned off, just close the Lid and let it keep running. all updates except the Kernel. I avoid those until I review what it might do....

as for reviewing what the other updates accomplish for me, that got to be an extremely inglorious task, and I finally just "to hell with it" and wrote the crontab job

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by Doctor Funkenstein » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:44 pm

JeremyB wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:26 am
What result for

Code: Select all

modinfo /lib/modules/4.15.0-36-generic/updates/rtl8723_common.ko

Code: Select all

modinfo: ERROR: Module /lib/modules/4.15.0-36-generic/updates/rtl8723_common.komodinfo not found.
modinfo: ERROR: Module /l not found.
Thanks Jeremy

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Re: Consequences of using an older kernel

Post by JeremyB » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:50 pm

What does the command dkms status show?

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