antivirus

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Moem
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Re: antivirus

Post by Moem »

ZakGordon wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:00 am
yeah one of the first things i do after installing Mint is set up the firewall, it's pretty easy to do luckily.
There's even a GUI for it nowadays. It's called GUFW.
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Re: antivirus

Post by Matthew_Wai »

ZakGordon wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:00 am
yeah one of the first things i do after installing Mint is set up the firewall, it's pretty easy to do luckily.
sudo ufw enable
That is easier than the following:
Moem wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:41 am
There's even a GUI for it nowadays. It's called GUFW.
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Re: antivirus

Post by Moem »

Matthew_Wai wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:50 am
ZakGordon wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:00 am
yeah one of the first things i do after installing Mint is set up the firewall, it's pretty easy to do luckily.
sudo ufw enable
That is easier than the following:
Moem wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:41 am
There's even a GUI for it nowadays. It's called GUFW.
That is a matter of personal preference :D
I know a lot of people who find GUI solutions always easier, when they are available. I'm one of them, as well.
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Re: antivirus

Post by ZakGordon »

Moem wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:41 am
ZakGordon wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:00 am
yeah one of the first things i do after installing Mint is set up the firewall, it's pretty easy to do luckily.
There's even a GUI for it nowadays. It's called GUFW.
Yeah :) I even have a desktop icon short cut to GUFW, it's just very easy to click and use (well check it is still on, from time to time).
Laptop overheating? Check link here:itsfoss guide . A move from Cinnamon to XFCE can give a -5 to -10 degrees C change on overheating hardware.

Build a modern dual-boot Ryzen Win7/Linux Mint PC:Tutorial
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Re: antivirus

Post by ricardogroetaers »

Pjotr wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:53 am
It's very easy to create a Linux virus "inside the laboratory". It's very difficult to get it to spread "outside the laboratory" (in the wild).
Thank you for the explanation. I understand perfectly.
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Re: antivirus

Post by Matthew_Wai »

I perfectly don't understand why no one has talked about ransomware.
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Re: antivirus

Post by Moem »

Matthew_Wai wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:06 am
I perfectly don't understand why no one has talked about ransomware.
Go ahead and start a thread about it! :D
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Re: antivirus

Post by Kurt3162 »

Speaking about antivirus on Mint - I do have something I'd like to pick your brains on:

Assuming you run Wine (for whatever reason, let's just assume you need to), don't you have to also run an antivirus against Windows malware, since it could run through Wine and create problems?
I agree Wine isn't perfect enough for more complicated viruses to work as intended (or even at all), but simple stuff might create just enough damage to ruin your day. It's IMHO a chance you wouldn't want to take if you use that computer for more than browsing and Youtube.
Opinions? :?:
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Re: antivirus

Post by Pjotr »

Kurt3162 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:11 pm
Speaking about antivirus on Mint - I do have something I'd like to pick your brains on:

Assuming you run Wine (for whatever reason, let's just assume you need to), don't you have to also run an antivirus against Windows malware, since it could run through Wine and create problems?
Yes. That's why I strongly advise *not* to install any Windows emulator like Wine: they're all Windows malware compatible.

No one *needs* to run Wine: for the (occasional?) use of Windows applications, I advise to utilize a dual boot or, even better, a virtual machine with Windows, within VirtualBox in Linux Mint.
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 20.1 Ulyssa
Keep your Linux Mint healthy: Avoid these 10 fatal mistakes
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All in all, horse sense simply makes sense.
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Re: antivirus

Post by Moem »

Kurt3162 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:11 pm
Assuming you run Wine (for whatever reason, let's just assume you need to), don't you have to also run an antivirus against Windows malware, since it could run through Wine and create problems?
No. You can, if you want, but you don't have to. I have Wine and I don't. I figure that not much malware comes in the shape of .exe files anymore, and even if one did (I guess that would have to arrive by download or email), I'd have to open it; then Wine might try to run it, and provided that it would run (as we know, Wine is fiddly and fails a lot) it would then proceed to try to do... something intended to be possible on a Windows system.
Honestly I'm not too worried. You can probably see why.

I do stick to these simple rules for Wine: never run anything on Wine that connects to the internet, and never run software on Wine that did not come from a source you trust. Do not use Wine for something that is always running.

Some reports of malware running though Wine do exist; they are few and far between. Here's one: https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-d ... 53719.html
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Re: antivirus

Post by Hoser Rob »

Matthew_Wai wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:50 am
ZakGordon wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:00 am
yeah one of the first things i do after installing Mint is set up the firewall, it's pretty easy to do luckily.
sudo ufw enable
That is easier than the following:
Moem wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:41 am
There's even a GUI for it nowadays. It's called GUFW.
That's only easier if you know the code. For many, including the novices that Mint targets, it isn't.

And some of us aren't scared of a little CLI but have been sick of it for more than 30 years. I'll tend to take a GUI of I can get it and it's a decent one.
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Re: antivirus

Post by Matthew_Wai »

Hoser Rob wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:03 am
That's only easier if you know the code. For many, including the novices that Mint targets, it isn't.
I am a novice who replaced Windows with Mint this year. For me, many things are far more difficult than the simple code.
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Re: antivirus

Post by Kurt3162 »

Pjotr wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:40 am
Yes. That's why I strongly advise *not* to install any Windows emulator like Wine
I fully understand your point of view (and even agree on a theoretical level), but it is difficult to put into practice for Windows defectors (I'm one too): You have a lot of software (often expensive) you'd like to keep using, and then there is the professional world, where you often have company-specific programs which only run in Windows, and forcing the company to create a Linux version just for you is obviously not an option: Firing you and hiring somebody using Windows like everybody else would be cheaper... :roll:

People coming from Windows love Wine, since it allows them to keep their Windows programs, giving them the best of two worlds. It's actually even a major selling point for deciding people to switch to Linux...

Now I admit those people aren't the intended targets of Linux, they aren't code jockeys or free software passionates, they are just the average Joe and Jane in the streets, only interested in having a hassle-free working computer.

----
Moem wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:26 am
You can, if you want, but you don't have to.
That's a non-answer! :lol: The implied question was "shouldn't you, if you run Wine, also run an antivirus?". Of course you can decide not to do so, like you can decide not to use protection when meeting strangers, but I'm not sure how sensible a decision that might be on the long run.
I don't run an antivirus either, but I don't feel good about it. I feel I might regret it one day, given it's a work computer.

Moem wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:26 am
I figure that not much malware comes in the shape of .exe files anymore
Uh, actually they all do? As a malware at some point you'll need to do something nasty, and except in the case you just feed instructions to a resident handler (script malware), you'll need to bring your own instruction handler with you, lest you end up lying there as a malicious, but totally inert file... :mrgreen:

Moem wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:26 am
it would then proceed to try to do... something intended to be possible on a Windows system.
Like simply encrypting/deleting your files? Well, it wouldn't be able to proceed outside your /home folder, but then again that's where all the good stuff resides. Everything outside that folder is only worth an hour with an installation DVD...

I agree chances are low, and (unlike with Windows) you have some real chances to not get infected, but it all depends on one's degree of confidence/insouciance - Wine does open a door, and objectively rises infection chances from "extremely unlikely" to just "unlikely".
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Re: antivirus

Post by Hoser Rob »

Kurt3162 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:48 am
Pjotr wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:40 am
Yes. That's why I strongly advise *not* to install any Windows emulator like Wine
I fully understand your point of view (and even agree on a theoretical level), but it is difficult to put into practice for Windows defectors (I'm one too): You have a lot of software (often expensive) you'd like to keep using, and then there is the professional world, where you often have company-specific programs which only run in Windows, and forcing the company to create a Linux version just for you is obviously not an option: Firing you and hiring somebody using Windows like everybody else would be cheaper... :roll:

People coming from Windows love Wine, since it allows them to keep their Windows programs, giving them the best of two worlds. It's actually even a major selling point for deciding people to switch to Linux...

Now I admit those people aren't the intended targets of Linux, they aren't code jockeys or free software passionates, they are just the average Joe and Jane in the streets, only interested in having a hassle-free working computer.

----
Moem wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:26 am
You can, if you want, but you don't have to.
That's a non-answer! :lol: The implied question was "shouldn't you, if you run Wine, also run an antivirus?". Of course you can decide not to do so, like you can decide not to use protection when meeting strangers, but I'm not sure how sensible a decision that might be on the long run.
I don't run an antivirus either, but I don't feel good about it. I feel I might regret it one day, given it's a work computer.

Moem wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:26 am
I figure that not much malware comes in the shape of .exe files anymore
Uh, actually they all do? As a malware at some point you'll need to do something nasty, and except in the case you just feed instructions to a resident handler (script malware), you'll need to bring your own instruction handler with you, lest you end up lying there as a malicious, but totally inert file... :mrgreen:

Moem wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:26 am
it would then proceed to try to do... something intended to be possible on a Windows system.
Like simply encrypting/deleting your files? Well, it wouldn't be able to proceed outside your /home folder, but then again that's where all the good stuff resides. Everything outside that folder is only worth an hour with an installation DVD...

I agree chances are low, and (unlike with Windows) you have some real chances to not get infected, but it all depends on one's degree of confidence/insouciance - Wine does open a door, and objectively rises infection chances from "extremely unlikely" to just "unlikely".
So run WIndows via dual boot or in a VM. Pjotr is quitre right (not many here are capable of arguing with him BTW), wine introduces more vulnerabilities. And it's a stupid hack that fails with most WIndows apps and often works poorly with those that run..
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Re: antivirus

Post by Moem »

Kurt3162 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:48 am
Moem wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:26 am
You can, if you want, but you don't have to.
That's a non-answer! :lol:
True! That is because the correct answer hinges on what we personally consider to be an acceptable risk. In other words, it's subjective. So there is no final answer.
Kurt3162 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:48 am
Moem wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:26 am
I figure that not much malware comes in the shape of .exe files anymore
Uh, actually they all do? As a malware at some point you'll need to do something nasty, and except in the case you just feed instructions to a resident handler (script malware), you'll need to bring your own instruction handler with you, lest you end up lying there as a malicious, but totally inert file... :mrgreen:
No, they do not. A lot of malware does indeed rely on a resident handler nowadays. The handler is named Javascript. Which is why all my browsers run NoScript.
Kurt3162 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:48 am
Moem wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:26 am
it would then proceed to try to do... something intended to be possible on a Windows system.
Like simply encrypting/deleting your files? Well, it wouldn't be able to proceed outside your /home folder, but then again that's where all the good stuff resides. Everything outside that folder is only worth an hour with an installation DVD...
Would it really get that far if it expects to land on a full installation of Windows, not something like [not even] an emulator? That depends a lot on how well-crafted it is. If it was not coded with Wine-using Linux users in mind, chances seem slim. Not non-existent, but slim.
Kurt3162 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:48 am
I agree chances are low, and (unlike with Windows) you have some real chances to not get infected, but it all depends on one's degree of confidence/insouciance - Wine does open a door, and objectively rises infection chances from "extremely unlikely" to just "unlikely".
That objectively depends on your subjective definition of 'unlikely'. :wink: We can agree that it opens a possible door. It would be unwise to deny that. But how large the risks are, is impossible to say, and some people simply decide that to them, personally, it's not worth it.
That is of course totally valid. It's just not the only possible conclusion.
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Re: antivirus

Post by Matthew_Wai »

I used portable software for years on Windows, which never got infected.
I guess it would be safe to use such software via Wine.
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Re: antivirus

Post by Kurt3162 »

Hoser Rob wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:02 am
So run WIndows via dual boot or in a VM.
Too complicated for most users, and too much hassle for frequent use (not to mention a VM requires you to pay for a Windows license).
You know what average people do when security gets too much in their way: They just break it, keys under the flower pot near the door, network password on a post-it under the keyboard, inane passwords like "password1", or, well, running Wine... :roll:

Hoser Rob wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:02 am
Pjotr is quitre right
Nobody denies that.
I'm just trying to find a solution for those who shouldn't exist, but yet do: The Linux users running, and frequently using Wine.
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Re: antivirus

Post by Kurt3162 »

Moem wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:04 am
Would it really get that far if it expects to land on a full installation of Windows, not something like [not even] an emulator? That depends a lot on how well-crafted it is.
Actually it only depends on if it does call functions Wine does not provide.
Heck, Win10 malware often doesn't even work on older versions of native Windows: It's called overspecialization... :roll:
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Re: antivirus

Post by Moem »

Kurt3162 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:45 am
Moem wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:04 am
Would it really get that far if it expects to land on a full installation of Windows, not something like [not even] an emulator? That depends a lot on how well-crafted it is.
Actually it only depends on if it does call functions Wine does not provide.
Actually that's exactly what I meant! :)
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Re: antivirus

Post by Kurt3162 »

Oh, so we agree... :D
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