No Password Needed Nor Wanted (Solved)

All Gurus once were Newbies
Forum rules
There are no such things as "stupid" questions. However if you think your question is a bit stupid, then this is the right place for you to post it. Please stick to easy to-the-point questions that you feel people can answer fast. For long and complicated questions prefer the other forums within the support section.
Before you post please read how to get help
jchelpau
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:19 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: No Password Needed Nor Wanted (Solved)

Post by jchelpau » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:02 pm

rene wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:28 pm
Honest question, what does that in fact mean in practice? It certainly seems to be the case that I can definitively destroy a Windows 7 system through passwordless UAC.
Correct. Having a separate admin user on Windows and using UAC to temporarily elevate privileges using a password avoids this, much like having a separate user (root) on Linux you sudo as.

rene
Level 10
Level 10
Posts: 3449
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: No Password Needed Nor Wanted (Solved)

Post by rene » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:14 pm

Well, yes, but this leaves me wonder why you considered it worth noting that passwordless UAC is not considered a security boundary on Windows. However, if that's a fully Windows-specific answer/issue, never mind...

gm10
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8247
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: No Password Needed Nor Wanted (Solved)

Post by gm10 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:47 pm

bob466 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:49 pm
Someone once said to me I have a very strong Password on my Windoze Computer and no one can open it...when I showed how easy it can be done his jaw dropped...the same thing can be done to a Linux Computer but the difference is...you can't change anything without a Password...that's the security of Linux. Image

Security on Windoze is a joke...Micro$oft could make Windoze as secure as Linux but choose not to...for a good reason $$$$$
Not quite. On either OS you can locally bypass the login password. The only thing that protects you from a local login is encryption, and that works the same on both OS as well. However, since Windows UAC is sandboxed (on Always notify level which is, of course, the only legit setting) from user space applications it's actually safer than the Linux password challenges. Linux has no built-in protection against malware once it's on your system.

Obviously once you start removing password/UAC prompts then the little default security you've got on either system goes out the window, too. On Linux you can additionally try sandboxing everything with the built-in AppArmor or third-party tools like Firejail, but nobody does that.

jchelpau
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:19 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: No Password Needed Nor Wanted (Solved)

Post by jchelpau » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:51 pm

rene wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:14 pm
Well, yes, but this leaves me wonder why you considered it worth noting that passwordless UAC is not considered a security boundary on Windows. However, if that's a fully Windows-specific answer/issue, never mind...
We're talking about security, right? UAC is not intended to be a barrier to stop malware running as admin.
Much like Linux, on Windows the best way to do this is to use a separate user account that requests privileges (through a UAC prompt) to run programs as admin.

User avatar
bob466
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 5:23 am
Location: Australia

Re: No Password Needed Nor Wanted (Solved)

Post by bob466 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:06 pm

gm10 wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:47 pm
bob466 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:49 pm
Someone once said to me I have a very strong Password on my Windoze Computer and no one can open it...when I showed how easy it can be done his jaw dropped...the same thing can be done to a Linux Computer but the difference is...you can't change anything without a Password...that's the security of Linux. Image

Security on Windoze is a joke...Micro$oft could make Windoze as secure as Linux but choose not to...for a good reason $$$$$
Not quite. On either OS you can locally bypass the login password. The only thing that protects you from a local login is encryption, and that works the same on both OS as well. However, since Windows UAC is sandboxed (on Always notify level which is, of course, the only legit setting) from user space applications it's actually safer than the Linux password challenges. Linux has no built-in protection against malware once it's on your system.

Obviously once you start removing password/UAC prompts then the little default security you've got on either system goes out the window, too. On Linux you can additionally try sandboxing everything with the built-in AppArmor or third-party tools like Firejail, but nobody does that.
At least Linux Mint doesn't spy on you and collect your information and sell it to Governments or anyone with cash like Micro$oft does. Image or have secret hidden Back-Doors where Micro$oft Employees can access your System and look at or change/delete your files. Image

When you think about it...Security in Windoze isn't an issue because there isn't any and a Password is only a small issue compared to the rest. Image So for me if I want Security...it's Linux Mint all the way. Image
Linux For Ever...Windoze Never Image

User avatar
catweazel
Level 19
Level 19
Posts: 9014
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: Australian Antarctic Territory

Re: No Password Needed Nor Wanted (Solved)

Post by catweazel » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:47 pm

bob466 wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:06 pm
At least Linux Mint doesn't spy on you and collect your information and sell it to Governments or anyone with cash like Micro$oft does. or have secret hidden Back-Doors where Micro$oft Employees can access your System and look at or change/delete your files.
FUD

Where is the evidence that Microsoft "sell it to Governments or anyone with cash"?

Where is the evidence that there are "secret hidden Back-Doors where Micro$oft Employees can access your System and look at or change/delete your files"?
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

User avatar
Moem
Level 19
Level 19
Posts: 9021
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: No Password Needed Nor Wanted (Solved)

Post by Moem » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:34 am

catweazel wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:47 pm
Where is the evidence that Microsoft "sell it to Governments or anyone with cash"?

Where is the evidence that there are "secret hidden Back-Doors where Micro$oft Employees can access your System and look at or change/delete your files"?
These are interesting questions, but they're off topic in this thread.
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

User avatar
catweazel
Level 19
Level 19
Posts: 9014
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: Australian Antarctic Territory

Re: No Password Needed Nor Wanted (Solved)

Post by catweazel » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:46 am

Moem wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:34 am
catweazel wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:47 pm
Where is the evidence that Microsoft "sell it to Governments or anyone with cash"?

Where is the evidence that there are "secret hidden Back-Doors where Micro$oft Employees can access your System and look at or change/delete your files"?
These are interesting questions, but they're off topic in this thread.
Oh, sorry. I didn't check what sub-forum I was in.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

User avatar
lsemmens
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2280
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:07 pm
Location: Rural South Australia

Re: No Password Needed Nor Wanted (Solved)

Post by lsemmens » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:39 am

Do you lock your house? Why? Back in the 1800s you might have gotten away without locks on your doors. Not so in the 21st century. Even now, to break into a house, a crook must first drive to your home and then attempt to break in. It is far easier with a bit of software to test every house in town for locks than for a crook to check each house,
Kernel: 4.15.0-46-generic x86_64 bits
Desktop: Cinnamon 3.8.9
Distro: Linux Mint 19 Tara

Laptop HP-ProBook-470-G2 8Gb RAM SSD
Server AMD Phenom 9650 - GEForce 9400GT 6Gb RAM
+ three other Mint machines
Out of my mind - please leave a message

sanmig
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:27 am

Re: No Password Needed Nor Wanted (Solved)

Post by sanmig » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:48 am

Nice heated Win(Mac)-Tux discussion where both sides have good points but don’t seem to try to understand the other side.
So let me add my brabel-babel:

Using the same hardware / protocols, the same basic insecurity is built into all of them. And all of them are old, glad to do 'something'.

Known and unknown bugs are plenty in each of them, but my uneducated guess would be that Linux is leading here (at least in the “years old known” category).

OK, Win is protected by a click, while Mac/Tux have a pwd ... :wink:
But Win/Mac are desktop systems, Tux never was (and never will be).


So that slight Tux pwd advantage is often lost because (esp. on a fresh system) one has to use it so often to tweak and install.

:arrow: Just to open anything interesting you have to root, it’s ridicules.
And who knows what from where and why to install … (x requires y).

But, as I see it, this is also the remaining Tux advantage:
Because there are plenty of variants and dependencies, both, viruses and malware, have it hard to make a good job without going undetected.

Monocultures are always prone to fail badly.

rene
Level 10
Level 10
Posts: 3449
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: No Password Needed Nor Wanted (Solved)

Post by rene » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:58 pm

If anyone was ever at all interested in the technical aspects, I just added an [EDIT] to my above reply viewtopic.php?f=90&t=291521&start=20#p1618207, saying
Slight adjustment, no provision made for that on current Ubuntu (-based) systems but that seems due to it for some reason shipping a wholly obsolete version of polkit (0.105). Newer versions of polkit allow for polkit.spawn() of an external helper in JavaScript .rules files which could be used to implement UAC-like behaviour it seems.

User avatar
bob466
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 5:23 am
Location: Australia

Re: No Password Needed Nor Wanted (Solved)

Post by bob466 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:44 pm

Double post. :roll:
Last edited by bob466 on Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Linux For Ever...Windoze Never Image

User avatar
bob466
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 5:23 am
Location: Australia

Re: No Password Needed Nor Wanted (Solved)

Post by bob466 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:20 pm

bob466 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:44 pm
catweazel wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:47 pm
bob466 wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:06 pm
At least Linux Mint doesn't spy on you and collect your information and sell it to Governments or anyone with cash like Micro$oft does. or have secret hidden Back-Doors where Micro$oft Employees can access your System and look at or change/delete your files.
FUD

Where is the evidence that Microsoft "sell it to Governments or anyone with cash"?

Where is the evidence that there are "secret hidden Back-Doors where Micro$oft Employees can access your System and look at or change/delete your files"?
Seriously it's common knowledge and has been for years Image and is much worse now...but since you asked...
https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware ... ft.en.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrvKyR9DGUY

Sorry Mods it's a little off topic but he did ask. Image
Linux For Ever...Windoze Never Image

Post Reply

Return to “Newbie Questions”