To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

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Rocketrick
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To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by Rocketrick »

Been using SW since the Dos days. Donated several times last was abt a month ago $50..

HP Pavilion dv7 with Win7 and i7 cpu. Great computer btw. Bght new.

Question: Since we needed Windows for ACAD & DCA in the early days still using Win7.....drat! Have 2-TB drives and need to boot to Win 7 and to Linux Mint.

Have Mint 18.1 on thumb drive and can boot from it. Good.

1. When I install MInt 18.1 to one, ...1-TB-SSD,.. will it format the drive or should I format the 1-TB SSD with EXt 4 or NTFS or XFS? I fig Ext4. Not sure.

2. When I format the other 1-TB SSD for windows and transfer Win 7 to it, shld i format it to NTFS , Fat32 or exFat?

I wldn be using Windows but the recording SW I am familiar with is written in Windows. Reaper, Samplitude and several others.

3. Hence I need to boot up to either OS and not sure the easiest way to do it at this point.

Seen the Mint User Guide and watched many a youtube video on this and frankly seems to give more questions then answers.

Thanks ahead of time..RR :)

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AndyMH
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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by AndyMH »

2. When I format the other 1-TB SSD for windows and transfer Win 7 to it, shld i format it to NTFS , Fat32 or exFat?
Install windows first. You shouldn't need to format the ssd in advance, windows should automatically format it for you. If you do want to format it in advance, use ntfs.
1. When I install MInt 18.1 to one, ...1-TB-SSD,.. will it format the drive or should I format the 1-TB SSD with EXt 4 or NTFS or XFS? I fig Ext4. Not sure.
The mint installer will format the sdd for you, can't remember the wording of the option, but it's basically wipe and use the whole disk. Or you can choose the 'something else' option during installation. This is what I would recommend. If you go down this route, I'd suggest you create two partitions, one for / (the system) and one for /home (where all your data is going to live). Format both ext4, make the / partition around 30G and the /home partition as big as you want.

Before you start the mint installation make sure that it is pointing at the right ssd. In linux terms, your first sdd is likely to be sda and your second ssd where mint is going to live will be sdb. At the bottom of the 'something else' screen is an option - where do you want linux to put the bootloader. I would suggest sda where windows is. This way you should get grub (the bootloader) giving you the option of windows or linux when you startup.

Other thoughts:
  • Why mint 18.1 and not the latest 19.1?
  • A 1TB ssd is plenty big enough to dual boot both OS from the same ssd. When I first started with mint dual booting I think I had a 128G sdd.
  • Another option, instead of dual boot, is to run windows in a virtual machine using a program called virtualbox. This is what I do now. I suggest you get your dual boot working first and then have a play with virtualbox.
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lsemmens
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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by lsemmens »

Understand your need for Windwoes. I'm not going to talk about the dual booting issue but will comment on the default files systems. If you need to access anything on your linux drive from within Windwoes make sure you are using NTFS, FAT32 or any other DOS flavour. M$ doesn't seem to be too friendly with EXT4 or other *nix flavour file systems. i.e. won't see them.
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AndyMH
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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by AndyMH »

If you need to access anything on your linux drive from within Windwoes make sure you are using NTFS
To be clear, you cannot install linux into an ntfs partition. If you want to share data, what I used to do was create a separate ntfs partition, this was D: in windows and then in linux I mounted it as /home/me/data. Linux can read/write ntfs partitions but windows cannot see ext4 partitions. If you want windows to see linux partitions (which I think is a really bad idea), then you need to install ext2fs in windows:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2fsd/
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athi
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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by athi »

Also, disable Fast Startup for dual boot setup. This Win10 feature put Windows into suspend/hibernate instead of an actual shutdown and if left on could cause boot issue in dual boot and possible file corruption. Link to how to geek article on Win10 Fast Startup
https://www.howtogeek.com/243901/the-pr ... rtup-mode/
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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by Rocketrick »

Thanks for your responses.

AndyMH: Mint 18.1 on USB. I created that when it came out and it boots no worries. I just fig I cld load to SSD it then upgrade. If there is a benefit from doing the same with the newest Mint version vs upgrading 18.2, let me know.

Good info per file system compatibility and the partition for the SSD with Linux. I'll def do that.

Watched videos abt the VMs. Good idea.

Isemmens: thanks for the info on the file system formatting. Will save me time and mistakes.

athi: Im not gonna even try windows 10. Dont trust 'em. Just me.

I've decided to make things easier for me and hopefully work more efficiently.

The plan is to keep the HP-i7 for windows 7 after a total reload. Then, and here is where i need your input, by a new i7 machine with Mint loaded on it ifn I can find it.

I've seen System 76 and Dell sells Linux machines and fired up to get one. Course i cld buy another HP, which I tend to stick with, and wipe and install Linux Mint.

To date me, i rem spending evenings at a computer lab at Tech typing out punch cards for the compiler. It was FORTRAN.

Thanks again for your time and like one guy on the tube says..Linux is a community not just a OS. Appreciated for sure.

Movin forwared with Great Vigor ha!. RR

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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by athi »

Rocketrick wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:39 pm
Thanks for your responses.

AndyMH: Mint 18.1 on USB. I created that when it came out and it boots no worries. I just fig I cld load to SSD it then upgrade. If there is a benefit from doing the same with the newest Mint version vs upgrading 18.2, let me know.

Good info per file system compatibility and the partition for the SSD with Linux. I'll def do that.

Watched videos abt the VMs. Good idea.

Isemmens: thanks for the info on the file system formatting. Will save me time and mistakes.

athi: Im not gonna even try windows 10. Dont trust 'em. Just me.

I've decided to make things easier for me and hopefully work more efficiently.

The plan is to keep the HP-i7 for windows 7 after a total reload. Then, and here is where i need your input, by a new i7 machine with Mint loaded on it ifn I can find it.

I've seen System 76 and Dell sells Linux machines and fired up to get one. Course i cld buy another HP, which I tend to stick with, and wipe and install Linux Mint.

To date me, i rem spending evenings at a computer lab at Tech typing out punch cards for the compiler. It was FORTRAN.

Thanks again for your time and like one guy on the tube says..Linux is a community not just a OS. Appreciated for sure.

Movin forwared with Great Vigor ha!. RR
Not a fan of Win10 either, but still need Windows to do taxes and cannot see using unsupported version of Windows.

FYI: New HP UEFI implementation is very cryptic and could take some time to setup for Linux installation. New Dell Windows PC shipped with SATA RAID enabled and need to be changed to SATA AHCI before Mint installation.

I remembered the paper tapes and punch cards from when I was in H.S. and college.
Mint Mate 19.1. Main rig is HP 800G2 I5 6500 16GB ram, 120GB boot drive, 2x3TB, 1x4TB data drives. Oldest rig is Mate 18.3 on Dell D620 with 32bits core duo.

Rocketrick
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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by Rocketrick »

Yep gonna follow everyone's advice for now for a dual boot system. Just received the Win7 DVD.

Maybe order the Linux computer once I investigate.

In another forum ill tell ya abt why i didnt load Linux as working OS till now. Abt a flame forum abt 8-yrs ago. Nasty ha!.


Thanks again.. :D

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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by SpookyWatcher »

If you are going to have two separate hdd's in your system, here is what I did and am quite happy.

First: I only had one hdd installed. I then installed Win 7 to that hdd. It should be NTFS format for windows to install.

Second: remove that drive (This is very important) and install the other hdd in the other bay of the laptop or desktop.

Third: I installed Linux Mint to the other hdd. I DID NOT want Grub to see my windows install so that's why I uninstalled the win7 hdd. Do as mentioned above. Format the "root" / to around 30-35 gig. Then the swap to a little more than your ram size (this is for hybernation if you want it). Then format the /home to the rest of the drive size if you want.

Fourth: Put the win7 hdd back into the laptop and I select which OS I want to boot to by smashing esc key during boot then selecting the OS. Your boot selection key might be different eg. "F8" key etc.

Of course in the bios you'll want to choose which hdd to boot to first as the default. I put Linux as the first because I rarely boot to the Win hdd.

Rocketrick
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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by Rocketrick »

Spook - Good ideas. Tanks..

I feel competent to do all that especially since the existing HD is gasping for breath as we speak...gettin scary ha!

I gotta read the mint operation manual again.

Best....RR :)

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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by AndyMH »

If you are going to have two separate hdd's in your system, here is what I did and am quite happy.
And I did exactly the same on my test laptop. Win10 on one ssd and mint on the other. Changed the boot order in bios so that mint boots automatically. If I want to boot win10 I have to get into the bios boot menu.
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Rocketrick
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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by Rocketrick »

Three more Newbie questions:

1. So make the root partition,/, abt 30 gigs. then make the, /home, partition the rest of the 1-tb ssd.

A. Does Mint 19.1 make both partitions or do i use gParted or "some such" for that?

2. Read make the swap 1.5 X ram. which = 12-Gigs. Will that be added on to the proposed 30-Gig root partition size,... or part of it,... or maybe used from the "/home partition" size?

Programs I see needing mega resources may be recording or if i used ACAD but they are both Windows OS. Hence, Shld I reduce the swap file size to 8-Gigs?

As an aside, i initially tried to clone the Win 7 OS and was on the cusp of buying Macrium. AFAICT, a very worthwhile program. Then I found Mini Tool Partition Wizard out of Vancouver BC. Bght it for abt $60 but It didnt do it..had a read error. Then they had me download Mini Tool Shadow Maker. It didnt do it either. They agreed to refund total amount but made an offer for me to keep the Partition Wizard, full support etc, and they refunded abt $45. They were on top of it with me day after day. Super customer support..Happy Camper dealing with those guys/gals..

Oh, AndyMH, I did get the Mint 19.1 exe and Rufus..

Tanks agin all - RR

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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by AndyMH »

/ about 30GB, yes, and the rest of the drive for /home is fine. Only thing to think about is backup, had so many posts from users filling up their root partition and then not being able to boot because timeshift has used up all the space. I'd be tempted to create a partition, say 30GB for timeshift backups only (and mount it somewhere like /mnt/timeshift).

If you want a swap partition make it the same size as your RAM.

I've used macrium reflect (the free version) to clone a 500G HDD with win10 and lubuntu onto a 240G SSD with no problems. Just had to make sure the partitions didn't use more than 240G and were all at the start of the drive before I did it. No need to buy anything, there are free tools available, clonezilla is the most often cited for linux, but not newbie friendly. I'm developing a simple image backup/clone tool but a couple of months away.

What you haven't said is whether you are going to install mint in legacy mode (MSDOS partition table) or UEFI mode (GPT partition table)? I would stick with whatever mode win was installed in. Go and check your BIOS settings.

Legacy = max 4 primary partitions, but this can be overcome with 3 primary partitions + extended partition and you can put logical partitions inside the extended partition. Max file size 2TB.
GPT = max 128 partitions, no practical limit on file size. GPT needs an EFI partition at the start of the disk. Size, say 500MB, format fat32, flags esp & boot. win and linux put their bootloaders in this partition, so no EFI partition = no boot.

You can do all your partitioning with the mint installer (not sure about the EFI partition) with the 'something else' option. You can definitely do it all in gparted.

My partition scheme, assuming the drive is sda, for legacy would be:
sda1 = ext4, size 30G, mount=/
sda2 = ext4, size, whatever is left, mount=/home
sda3 = ext4, size 30G, mount=/mnt/timeshift
sda4 = swap, size=RAM.
Note - this uses all your four primary partitions so you can't add any more without significant shuffling around to create an extended partition.

GPT just adds the EFI partition:
sda1 = fat32, size 500MB, flags= esp, boot
sda2 = ext4, size 30G, mount=/
sda3 = ext4, size, whatever is left, mount=/home
sda4 = ext4, size 30G, mount=/mnt/timeshift
sda5 = swap, size=RAM.

Either way, you can sort out the mounting of the timeshift partition after you have mint up and running. Also leave a few GB of space un-allocated at the end of the drive. This is recommended as best practice to maximise life (can't remember the exact details).

EDIT - thinking about this, you have 2xSSD, one for win7, one for mint, right? I'd put an ntfs partition on the mint SSD and use it for backups of win C: and put an ext4 partition on the win SSD and use it for timeshift snapshots. That way if either drive fails you can get the system back.
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Rocketrick
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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by Rocketrick »

Tanks Andy appreciated.

Yep two SSDa and your ideas supplement Spooky's.

Have to go back and read up on what all the diff type partitions are and how they operate.There's Primary basic dynamic etc etc..Confusing. There Windows/Dos types and then there is Unix/Linux types.Prob more i dont need to understand?

Oh well..pass the beer nuts..

RR

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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by athi »

Short answer, there are 2 main types of partition tables that you would use. MBR (Ms-DOS) is the old standard and is limited to 4 primary partitions. This limitation can be sidestepped by use of extended partition (a type of primary partition), which allow creation of multiple logical partitions inside of the extended partition. Use of extended partition added complexity to MBR partition table and is a cause for a lot of partitioning problems. The newer GPT (GUID) partition table eliminates the 4 primary partition limits and eliminates the need for extended partition. Win7 and earlier cannot use GPT natively and must use MBR, unless driver is installed during Windows installation to provide GPT support.

The actual partitions themselves are determined by O/S requirements. Windows now uses NTFS and several special system partitions, Linux can use several types of partitions but recommended is ext4 and swap. Linux have native support for NTFS, so Linux can access data on Windows partitions but Windows requires drivers to access Linux partitions.
Mint Mate 19.1. Main rig is HP 800G2 I5 6500 16GB ram, 120GB boot drive, 2x3TB, 1x4TB data drives. Oldest rig is Mate 18.3 on Dell D620 with 32bits core duo.

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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by AndyMH »

The partition table lives at the very beginning of the drive and tells the system where the partitions are. There are two sorts, legacy=MSDOS=old, dates back to the early '80s when nobody could imagine the size of disks we have today. It is only 512 bytes long (one sector) and some of this has to be used for the bootloader to point at your operating system. Hence the limit on the number of partitions, and the kludge to get more with the extended partition with logical partitions. Late '90s the GPT partition table was defined, allowing a lot more partitions, but it uses more space at the start of the drive = 34 sectors, it also places a copy at the very end of the drive as a backup in case the table at the front of the drive gets corrupted. Any PC from 2000 onwards will recognise both types.
MSDOS - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record#PT
GPT - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table

Another name used with a legacy partition table is MBR = master boot record, name self-explanatory. The equivalent with GPT is UEFI. Here you need a small partition at the beginning of the drive called the EFI partition. This contains the bootloader for your operating systems, overcoming the limited space available with legacy/MBR. How you boot is determined by settings in BIOS, as an example, my T430 has options for legacy, UEFI, both (legacy first) and both (UEFI first).

When it comes to partition types, there are lots but you only need to think about three:
  • fat32 - common, everything can read/write it. This is what all usb sticks come formatted with. Think my external usb drives were also fat32, now reformatted either ntfs or ext4. Given the name (which stands for file allocation table) there were earlier variants - fat, fat12, fat16. If you remember floppy disks, they were fat (for MSDOS systems).
  • ntfs - developed by microsoft as a successor to fat for hard drives. Used by win - this is how it will format your partitions when it installs. Linux can read/write ntfs partitions (but a common problem on dual boot systems is linux mounting ntfs partitions read only - easy to fix).
  • ext4 - used by linux, win does not understand ext4 partitions (you can install ext2fs in win so it can read/write ext partitions, I think it is a bad idea). When you install linux it will use ext4 for your / partition.
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Rocketrick
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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by Rocketrick »

Andy and athi - thank ya agin for the prompt attention.

You pretty much gave me the basic course in diff os disk drive differences and utilization. I wld never come to actualize those tips you gave on my own.

Gonna proceed with the installs and I'll let ya know the results.

A guy that wrote the book "Rule Number One" sometimes closed with..."Now go make some money...

Here's wishin ya do Bros.

RR

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Re: To TB Linux Mint AND Windows 7...?

Post by Rocketrick »

Imagine ya thought Id had wreck on the SG or ex had shot me but ok ha!.

Finally got 19.2 loaded and it has magnificently exceeded my expectations. Just hammering my self I didnt do it back ard mid 2000s or so.

Biggest prob was understanding which HD i was loading to etc. Just darn confusing and I've watched videos on the file system. Guess my head was captured by Windows...argggg!!!

WAtched videos on things to do after first loading and that helped.

Amazing thang is,.... it doesn't boot up off the SSD. It pops up. Love it ha!.

Exploring music production SW in Linux now.

Best to All and thanks everyone for help and patience.

RR

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