Help With File Management

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throwaway25996
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Help With File Management

Post by throwaway25996 »

I moved over from Windows because I was sick of not knowing where to find a file. I was led to believe that Linux allowed for much more customization so I don't know what that COULD mean except that you controlled the file directories better. So far, though, I'm having a lot of trouble adjusting, even though I thought Mint was trying to be as easy a transition from Windows as possible.

- There are still a huge variety of forced-in directories in the main file system. I don't think I can move these but perhaps there could be some way to render them irrelevant until needed.
- Due to the Software Manager and Terminal being the methods for installation, now almost every single file auto-installs to a directory without any input from me or even any indication of where it went, or if I can move it.
- Trying to create shortcuts, or "symbolic links", isn't as easy as right-clicking. Now I have to open the terminal, input two exact, case-sensitive, directory paths that usually gets broken anyway.
- And I'm still unclear on any easy way to drag a file from one directory to its parent directory, which is the easiest way to transfer files in Windows.

Can you help me out in making these problems less irritating?

gm10
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by gm10 »

throwaway25996 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:36 am
- There are still a huge variety of forced-in directories in the main file system. I don't think I can move these but perhaps there could be some way to render them irrelevant until needed.
- Due to the Software Manager and Terminal being the methods for installation, now almost every single file auto-installs to a directory without any input from me or even any indication of where it went, or if I can move it.
Is there a question in there?
throwaway25996 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:36 am
- Trying to create shortcuts, or "symbolic links", isn't as easy as right-clicking. Now I have to open the terminal, input two exact, case-sensitive, directory paths that usually gets broken anyway.
What's wrong with right-clicking?
nemo_make_link.png
nemo_make_link.png (6.28 KiB) Viewed 764 times
throwaway25996 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:36 am
- And I'm still unclear on any easy way to drag a file from one directory to its parent directory, which is the easiest way to transfer files in Windows.
Considering drag & drop is working exactly the same as on Windows I'm not sure what your difficulty is here.

Note that with respect to the two previous points you can also hold Alt before the "drop" to get a menu of options what to do with the dragged file.
Tune up your LM 19+: ppa:gm10/linuxmint-tools

athi
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by athi »

throwaway25996 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:36 am
I moved over from Windows because I was sick of not knowing where to find a file. I was led to believe that Linux allowed for much more customization so I don't know what that COULD mean except that you controlled the file directories better. So far, though, I'm having a lot of trouble adjusting, even though I thought Mint was trying to be as easy a transition from Windows as possible.

- There are still a huge variety of forced-in directories in the main file system. I don't think I can move these but perhaps there could be some way to render them irrelevant until needed.
- Due to the Software Manager and Terminal being the methods for installation, now almost every single file auto-installs to a directory without any input from me or even any indication of where it went, or if I can move it.
Here is a tutorial to Linux file system that should help answer some of your questions:
https://www.linux.com/blog/learn/intro- ... -explained
throwaway25996 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:36 am
- Trying to create shortcuts, or "symbolic links", isn't as easy as right-clicking. Now I have to open the terminal, input two exact, case-sensitive, directory paths that usually gets broken anyway.
- And I'm still unclear on any easy way to drag a file from one directory to its parent directory, which is the easiest way to transfer files in Windows.

Can you help me out in making these problems less irritating?
Modern Linux desktops have many GUI tools which perform the same function as many CLI commands, so usage of CLI is optional for many common tasks. Which Mint flavour are you using? Need to know this to provide proper advices since there are many distributions and Desktop Environment, and each DE have different layout/tools etc.
Mint Mate 19.1. Main rig is HP 800G2 I5 6500 16GB ram, 120GB boot drive, 2x3TB, 1x4TB data drives. Oldest rig is Mate 18.3 on Dell D620 with 32bits core duo.

Hoser Rob
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by Hoser Rob »

Your best option is to just forget trying to make it work more like WIndows. it doesn't. And this idea that in Linux you can do whatever you want isn't true. In some ways it's more restrictive than WIndows. You'll get used to it.

athi
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by athi »

Hoser Rob wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:59 am
Your best option is to just forget trying to make it work more like WIndows. it doesn't. And this idea that in Linux you can do whatever you want isn't true. In some ways it's more restrictive than WIndows. You'll get used to it.
Very true, Linux like Unix treats everything as a file, so system file structure is very important. Deviation from standard practices could lead to unintended consequences and make corrective actions more complicated when problem does occur.
Mint Mate 19.1. Main rig is HP 800G2 I5 6500 16GB ram, 120GB boot drive, 2x3TB, 1x4TB data drives. Oldest rig is Mate 18.3 on Dell D620 with 32bits core duo.

carum carvi
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by carum carvi »

Welcome to the LinuxMint forum Throwaway.

Your comparison between Windows and Linux does remind me of the same surprises I had when I first started using LinuxMint. LinuxMint has more options for configuration, but that doesnt mean it is easier. Windows is in some ways easier, because it is made for the masses. Linux was made for programmers firstmost. Yes, you can tweak more things in Linux, but you have to really know what you are doing.

What helped me as a newbie in working with LinuxMint is not expecting it to be exactly like Windows. It is a change of mindset.

As a LinuxMint newbie myself I dont mess with the system files ever, unless I get experienced advice. In Windows though it is normal and easy to place your newly installed programs in one or the other system folder of your own choosing. In LinuxMInt it is even easier because you dont even have to think about where your system files for new programs are located. And as a newbie myself it is better for my that I dont have to think about it, because I could seriously mess things up if I started changing system files locations.

Creating shortcuts is indeed more troublesome in Linux than in Windows. I am ashamed to say that I still dont know how to do it after using Linux for 2 years. I have not had any need for it either though, but you are right that it is pretty complicated with these commands that one has to create oneself.

Dragging and dropping though is exactly the same. Cut and paste is exactly the same.

But be warned, that you will NOT get a warning in LinuxMint if you do something dangerous to your system. The best thing for me was to not mess with ANY settings at all, in the beginning. Once you know the LinuxMint OS a bit, you can get good advice on this helpful forum on how to tweak things to your likings.
Last edited by carum carvi on Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hoser Rob
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by Hoser Rob »

athi wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:23 am
.., Linux like Unix treats everything as a file, ...
Actually in Unix I found it was more like everything is a file and nothing is a file. Unix, as originally specced, has NO file system, believe it or not.

Blue
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by Blue »

Just to indicate how to make links in Nemo because it seems very unclear.

I don't have the option on right-click, however I can do it in the "Edit" menu after selecting an item (stock Nemo, LM Cinnamon 19.1)

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Moem
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by Moem »

Blue wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:34 pm
Just to indicate how to make links in Nemo because it seems very unclear.

I don't have the option on right-click
Then you may need to click the little plus sign in the top right corner of the rightclick menu, to show more options.
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

Blue
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by Blue »

Moem wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:36 pm
Blue wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:34 pm
I don't have the option on right-click
Then you may need to click the little plus sign in the top right corner of the rightclick menu, to show more options.
Indeed !
I actually never noticed it, I think that's not really obvious for newbies :)

gm10
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by gm10 »

Blue wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:38 pm
Moem wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:36 pm
Then you may need to click the little plus sign in the top right corner of the rightclick menu, to show more options.
Indeed !
I actually never noticed it, I think that's not really obvious for newbies :)
Frankly it's not obvious for anybody, which is why it (finally) got changed in Nemo 4.2/LM 19.2 and will be a checkbox in the Edit menu instead. Still only semi-obvious (I'm quite sure many users never realize they've got an incomplete context menu) but better than what we've got right now I'd say.
Tune up your LM 19+: ppa:gm10/linuxmint-tools

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JerryF
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by JerryF »

throwaway25996 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:36 am
...
I moved over from Windows because I was sick of not knowing where to find a file. I was led to believe that Linux allowed for much more customization so I don't know what that COULD mean except that you controlled the file directories better. So far, though, I'm having a lot of trouble adjusting, even though I thought Mint was trying to be as easy a transition from Windows as possible.
...
Sorry if I'm going to come across as being harsh but...

I've found that users of any OS who aren't diligent in creating subfolders to put their stuff into usually can't find files. This includes my partner and a friend of mine. They expect to find their files as if my magic. File management is just a digitized version of a file cabinet.

When saving files from a program (such as LibreOffice Writer), YOU have to be aware of where it's being saved. The program can't read minds and put files where you think they should go.
*** IF your problem has been solved, please edit your ORIGINAL post and add [SOLVED] to the beginning of the Subject Line. It helps other members when browsing posts. ***

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BenTrabetere
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by BenTrabetere »

throwaway25996 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:36 am
... I'm having a lot of trouble adjusting....
If I understand correctly, you like/want to control where files are located and you are having difficulty trying to understand the Linux file system. That was one of the biggest obstacles and frustrations I faced during my Linux transition, and I struggled trying to make sense of the file system.

One day I realized it was not necessary for me to understand the file system in order to use Linux. I found peace when I accepted that the only files I needed to control were my files and that I was much better off letting the system manage the system files.
- There are still a huge variety of forced-in directories in the main file system. I don't think I can move these but perhaps there could be some way to render them irrelevant until needed.
Those are system files. Let the system manage them.
- Due to the Software Manager and Terminal being the methods for installation, now almost every single file auto-installs to a directory without any input from me or even any indication of where it went, or if I can move it.
This was a major part of my initial frustrations coming to grips with the Linux file system. starting with my first hard disk (with a whopping 10MB) I had separate partitions for OS, programs and data, and I stuck with that strategy from DOS to OS/2 to WinXP. If nothing else, it let me I know where everything was located.

I did not have a problem per se with Linux deciding where to install programs - my issue was I could not figure out where it installed them. Bits seemed to be scattered everywhere. There is a method to the madness, but ultimately those are system files and you need to let the system manage them.
Can you help me out in making these problems less irritating?
What helped me was accepting that Linux is not Windows and that Linux runs a lot more smoothly when I let the system manage itself. And while I am fascinated with the file system, I found knowing how it works is not required.

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Re: Help With File Management

Post by Flemur »

JerryF wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:40 pm
I've found that users of any OS who aren't diligent in creating subfolders to put their stuff into usually can't find files.
I had a guy who I would help over the phone (w/windows) and he'd save a file and then ask me "Where is it?" I'd say "Wherever you put it!" He wouldn't even check or look at the path displayed in the "Save" dialog.
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
Your data and OS are backed up....right?

athi
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by athi »

Flemur wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:18 pm

I had a guy who I would help over the phone (w/windows) and he'd save a file and then ask me "Where is it?" I'd say "Wherever you put it!" He wouldn't even check or look at the path displayed in the "Save" dialog.
That is typical of most regular PC users, Windows method of saving files by type is more geared toward this type of user by at least giving it a structure. Bad part is if you are not used to this methodology and need to find these files for the users. Used to drive me crazy, but I have mellowed out over the years. Me, I saved everything into a folder and sort them into the proper locations or delete them when I have time.
Mint Mate 19.1. Main rig is HP 800G2 I5 6500 16GB ram, 120GB boot drive, 2x3TB, 1x4TB data drives. Oldest rig is Mate 18.3 on Dell D620 with 32bits core duo.

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bob466
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by bob466 »

I don't see what all the fuss is...create a file...put it in a Folder...name it and place the Folder on the Desktop or in Home...simple. Image :lol: :lol:
Linux For Ever...Windoze Never Image

throwaway25996
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by throwaway25996 »

Thank you all for trying to help, I fuond a few helpful replies but mostly I'm worried I won't ever find an OS I want. I think a lot of you have a misconception of what I am asking for, though. My ideal OS would be one where all the system files at initial boot are in a single "system" directory, and literally every other file either asks where it's allowed to go or creates a sub-directory in the same folder as whatever program spawned it. I've grudgingly accepted that current OSes can't do that for some unexplained reason, but I was hoping I could at the very least find the kind of distro that would be closer to the ideal than Windows.

athi
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by athi »

throwaway25996 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:43 am
Thank you all for trying to help, I fuond a few helpful replies but mostly I'm worried I won't ever find an OS I want. I think a lot of you have a misconception of what I am asking for, though. My ideal OS would be one where all the system files at initial boot are in a single "system" directory, and literally every other file either asks where it's allowed to go or creates a sub-directory in the same folder as whatever program spawned it. I've grudgingly accepted that current OSes can't do that for some unexplained reason, but I was hoping I could at the very least find the kind of distro that would be closer to the ideal than Windows.
Most application do allows you to pick the default save to directory. As I remembered, some Windows application used to have default save to directory in the application folder. This method drives me crazy, since in order for me to find a file, I need to remember what application created the file, go to that application folder and find the file in the folder. OSX still does this, there is no file manager and you need to start an application to look for the file.

The reason this method makes no sense to me is if I have a project that requires 10 different applications, I have to remember which of the 10 was used in order to find the file. I sort my files by subject, so all I need to remembered is the subject and find the file regardless of how the file was created. There is a reason that the Dewey Decimal system revolutionized library science.
Mint Mate 19.1. Main rig is HP 800G2 I5 6500 16GB ram, 120GB boot drive, 2x3TB, 1x4TB data drives. Oldest rig is Mate 18.3 on Dell D620 with 32bits core duo.

decrepit
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by decrepit »

throwaway25996 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:43 am
Thank you all for trying to help, I fuond a few helpful replies but mostly I'm worried I won't ever find an OS I want. I think a lot of you have a misconception of what I am asking for, though. My ideal OS would be one where all the system files at initial boot are in a single "system" directory, and literally every other file either asks where it's allowed to go or creates a sub-directory in the same folder as whatever program spawned it. I've grudgingly accepted that current OSes can't do that for some unexplained reason, but I was hoping I could at the very least find the kind of distro that would be closer to the ideal than Windows.
I don't think any OS works like that, and if you expect it will be disappointed.
My advice is to persevere with the way mint works for a while. You may just grow to love it.
Try not to get frustrated that it doesn't do things the way you want. Try and work with the way it does things.
You can always keep searching for that ideal in the meantime, but my bet is once you really get used to linux you'll give up the search.

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JerryF
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by JerryF »

throwaway25996 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:43 am
Thank you all for trying to help, I fuond a few helpful replies but mostly I'm worried I won't ever find an OS I want. I think a lot of you have a misconception of what I am asking for, though. My ideal OS would be one where all the system files at initial boot are in a single "system" directory, and literally every other file either asks where it's allowed to go or creates a sub-directory in the same folder as whatever program spawned it. I've grudgingly accepted that current OSes can't do that for some unexplained reason, but I was hoping I could at the very least find the kind of distro that would be closer to the ideal than Windows.
Most programs do ask where a file is going to be saved. Also, when you download a file from your web browser, it gets saved in the Downloads folder.

As for folders, etc., there aren't many places that files get saved by default. There's Documents, Music, Pictures, Videos, and Downloads. Within most programs, you can set a default folder where that program will save files.

You sound so much like my friend :lol: As a comparison, I asked him "When you get into a car, you make it go where it's supposed to, right?" You have to "take the steering wheel".
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