Help With File Management

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djph
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by djph »

throwaway25996 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:43 am
Thank you all for trying to help, I fuond a few helpful replies but mostly I'm worried I won't ever find an OS I want. I think a lot of you have a misconception of what I am asking for, though. My ideal OS would be one where all the system files at initial boot are in a single "system" directory,


that'd be /bin, or /sbin directories for absolutely required core things, e.g. bash, gz, tar, cat, vi and so on (i.e. the stuff that you either cannot boot without, or cannot build a core bootable image without -- although these days, some may be symlinked to /usr/bin).

/usr/bin, /usr/sbin, or /usr/local/bin for "extras". ORIGINALLY this was where user stuff went (as in home directories), but it has since morphed to contain a secondary hierarchy of programs that "users" tend to use. For example, firefox, LO, mail, screen, tmux, and so on.
throwaway25996 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:43 am
and literally every other file either asks where it's allowed to go or creates a sub-directory in the same folder as whatever program spawned it. I've grudgingly accepted that current OSes can't do that for some unexplained reason, but I was hoping I could at the very least find the kind of distro that would be closer to the ideal than Windows.
Most programs will ask you where to save the file, or allow you to set a default save location; and in either event, generally the default is $HOME/Documents. Granted, I don't do a lot with media, so haven't really paid as close of attention to their defaults. I'd imagine "Pictures" or "Video" would be a good bet.

Matthew_Wai
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by Matthew_Wai »

throwaway25996 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:36 am
any indication of where it went
Run sudo synaptic-pkexec. Search for it. Right-click on its name-->"Properties"-->"Installed Files".
throwaway25996 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:36 am
- Trying to create shortcuts, or "symbolic links", isn't as easy as right-clicking. Now I have to open the terminal
You don't have to open Terminal. Just right-click on your Desktop-->"Create a new launcher here".

Matthew_Wai
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by Matthew_Wai »

throwaway25996 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:36 am
I'm still unclear on any easy way to drag a file from one directory to its parent directory
Open the subfolder in a new tab. Drag the file from the subfolder into the parent folder's tab.

athi
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by athi »

Matthew_Wai wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:01 am
throwaway25996 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:36 am
I'm still unclear on any easy way to drag a file from one directory to its parent directory
Open the subfolder in a new tab. Drag the file from the subfolder into the parent folder's tab.
That is exactly how I copy/move/link files; with multiple file manager windows open, select file + alt key in one window, drag file to other window, select action from menu and done.
Mint Mate 19.1. Main rig is HP 800G2 I5 6500 16GB ram, 120GB boot drive, 2x3TB, 1x4TB data drives. Oldest rig is Mate 18.3 on Dell D620 with 32bits core duo.

Matthew_Wai
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by Matthew_Wai »

athi wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:44 am
select file + alt key
I don't get it. Could you explain?

athi
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by athi »

When you click and hold on file/files and then press and hold alt key before you drag and drop, you will get a menu to select actions (copy, move, create link). Learned this from a post here, forgot which one. Before this, copy/move/create link uses 3 different sequence of actions, with this trick you only need to remember 1 sequence and simplify things a bit. This does work better with keyboard and mouse
Mint Mate 19.1. Main rig is HP 800G2 I5 6500 16GB ram, 120GB boot drive, 2x3TB, 1x4TB data drives. Oldest rig is Mate 18.3 on Dell D620 with 32bits core duo.

gm10
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by gm10 »

athi wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:05 am
When you click and hold on file/files and then press and hold alt key before you drag and drop, you will get a menu to select actions (copy, move, create link). Learned this from a post here, forgot which one.
May I propose mine in the first response to this thread? ;)
gm10 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:28 am
Note that with respect to the two previous points you can also hold Alt before the "drop" to get a menu of options what to do with the dragged file.
Tune up your LM 19+: ppa:gm10/linuxmint-tools

Matthew_Wai
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by Matthew_Wai »

athi wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:05 am
When you click and hold on file/files and then press and hold alt key before you drag and drop, you will get a menu to select actions (copy, move, create link).
By doing what you said above, I get nothing.
By right-clicking on a file/files, I get the menu.
I am using Cinnamon.

athi
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by athi »

I am running Mate 19.1, need to hold mouse button down when you press the alt key and hold both down when you drag and drop.
Mint Mate 19.1. Main rig is HP 800G2 I5 6500 16GB ram, 120GB boot drive, 2x3TB, 1x4TB data drives. Oldest rig is Mate 18.3 on Dell D620 with 32bits core duo.

Matthew_Wai
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by Matthew_Wai »

I can drag and drop files without pressing "Alt".

athi
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by athi »

Matthew_Wai wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:03 am
I can drag and drop files without pressing "Alt".
Yes, but the operation performed when you drag and drop is different depending on context. When I drag and drop file from one folder to another folder inside the same top level folder, it will perform a move. When I drag and drop file between different top level folders or devices, it will perform a copy. With the alt method, you can specify the operation after drag and drop.
Mint Mate 19.1. Main rig is HP 800G2 I5 6500 16GB ram, 120GB boot drive, 2x3TB, 1x4TB data drives. Oldest rig is Mate 18.3 on Dell D620 with 32bits core duo.

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Flemur
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by Flemur »

throwaway25996 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:43 am
My ideal OS would be one where all the system files at initial boot are in a single "system" directory
That would be "/".
, and literally every other file either asks where it's allowed to go
Linux and windows both do that. In linux they're all supposed to go either under /home (never in system directories) or in some data partition/directory that you define yourself.
or creates a sub-directory in the same folder as whatever program spawned it.
I use several different programs for each type of data, so that would be a terrible system for me.
I've grudgingly accepted that current OSes can't do that for some unexplained reason, but I was hoping I could at the very least find the kind of distro that would be closer to the ideal than Windows.
Your ideal seems to be something that most other people don't want.
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
Your data and OS are backed up....right?

athi
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by athi »

gm10 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:15 am
athi wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:05 am
When you click and hold on file/files and then press and hold alt key before you drag and drop, you will get a menu to select actions (copy, move, create link). Learned this from a post here, forgot which one.
May I propose mine in the first response to this thread? ;)
gm10 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:28 am
Note that with respect to the two previous points you can also hold Alt before the "drop" to get a menu of options what to do with the dragged file.
gm10, thank you for the correction. Must have missed the timing when I read this in the original post.
Mint Mate 19.1. Main rig is HP 800G2 I5 6500 16GB ram, 120GB boot drive, 2x3TB, 1x4TB data drives. Oldest rig is Mate 18.3 on Dell D620 with 32bits core duo.

ColdBootII
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by ColdBootII »

throwaway25996 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:43 am
Thank you all for trying to help, I fuond a few helpful replies but mostly I'm worried I won't ever find an OS I want. I think a lot of you have a misconception of what I am asking for, though. My ideal OS would be one where all the system files at initial boot are in a single "system" directory, and literally every other file either asks where it's allowed to go or creates a sub-directory in the same folder as whatever program spawned it. I've grudgingly accepted that current OSes can't do that for some unexplained reason, but I was hoping I could at the very least find the kind of distro that would be closer to the ideal than Windows.
Yes, but you should understand that it is already so. Everything is already in one folder - /. It was just taken to a higher level so that /bin is populated by executables whereas configs go to /etc while artwork generally goes to /usr/share. All that is for a very good reason which you will quickly discern if you take your time to learn about organization of Linux file system. What a mess would it be if executables, libraries, documents, artwork etc where all in one place. :lol:

Also, if I understood that part correctly, you can find out where each file comprising a software package you've installed went if you look at package properties in Synaptic.

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I2k4
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by I2k4 »

Have to say there are many PC users who have problems with Windows that are incomprehensible to me, and I'm always sceptical of those who then claim it's solved by any Linux. The one PC operating system that seems to have generally got the "challenged" end-user's back is Apple's OSX. My daughter is like that - suffered for years with both Windows PCs and Android phones, unable to deal with too many ways to do anything, none of them being obvious, and hours with her friends or me trying to figure it out - she is in heaven now with an iPhone and recently a new MacBook Pro.

I do sympathize with the OP's Windows frustration if it's from the built-in Explorer. Some time back in the late 90s I dumped it for a third-party dual pane file manager and have completely forgotten whatever I knew about Windows Explorer. I very much like Nemo (Cinnamon) for being much like the Windows file manager I've used for two decades, and was pleased to find PCManFM as a comparably competent dual pane file manager for XFCE.

The demands of both Windows and Mint Linux to take reasonable care to understand default settings for Save, Save As, Export or Print to files - and how to change them as wanted - are about the same. Apple just says, "my way or the highway" and that seems best for millions of befuddled users.
TRUST BUT VERIFY any advice from anybody, including me. Mint/Ubuntu user since 10.04 LTS. LM20 64 bit XFCE (Dell 1520). Dual booting LM20 XFCE / Win7 (Lenovo desktop and Acer netbook).

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lsemmens
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by lsemmens »

throwaway25996 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:43 am
My ideal OS would be one where all the system files at initial boot are in a single "system" directory, and literally every other file either asks where it's allowed to go or creates a sub-directory in the same folder as whatever program spawned it.
The OS you are looking for is called DOS. We did away with it last century. Linux (and the other OS's) all handle their own file management, some better than others. Any program that you use will have some method of saving data to a specified directory (or Folder, if you must). The filing cabinet analogy is a good one.

My process is to save everything to "Documents" on my laptop, and then file it on my server in the appropriate folder.
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Hoser Rob
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by Hoser Rob »

throwaway25996 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:36 am
... Due to the Software Manager and Terminal being the methods for installation, now almost every single file auto-installs to a directory without any input from me or even any indication of where it went, or if I can move it....
And that's exactly how it's designed. Do NOT try to outsmart the OS, you'll just break it.

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JerryF
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by JerryF »

Has anyone noticed that the OP hasn't responded to any of our input? I think the purpose of this post was to "get us going".

EDITED: I jumped the gun. Sorry.
Last edited by JerryF on Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Piers66
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by Piers66 »

JerryF wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:50 am
Has anyone noticed that the OP hasn't responded to any of our input? I think the purpose of this post was to "get us going".
Not since July 1st (to be fair, he did do one reply). Could be that he's just had to go to work! There again, maybe the Linux experience has been so off-putting he's gone back to Windows!

Anyway...
throwaway25996 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:36 am
I moved over from Windows because I was sick of not knowing where to find a file. I was led to believe that Linux allowed for much more customization so I don't know what that COULD mean except that you controlled the file directories better. So far, though, I'm having a lot of trouble adjusting, even though I thought Mint was trying to be as easy a transition from Windows as possible.
Don't worry, I couldn't make sense of anything much at first, but like lots of people have said much of my initial concern did turn out not to matter. Like you, after knowing the XP filing system inside out, one of the (many) things that drove me away from Win 10 was that nothing was where I thought it ought to be! I found the same thing with Linux at first, but honestly it's a lot more sensible than with Win 10, so stick with it.
- There are still a huge variety of forced-in directories in the main file system. I don't think I can move these but perhaps there could be some way to render them irrelevant until needed.
It's called "Show Hidden Files". Open a folder, go to the 'View' menu and turn it off! I leave hidden files visible, because a leftover from my Windows XP days is that I feel the need to know where stuff is, but honestly I rarely have to look into hidden files so could probably default to 'off'.
- Due to the Software Manager and Terminal being the methods for installation, now almost every single file auto-installs to a directory without any input from me or even any indication of where it went, or if I can move it.
If you're talking about system and programme files then that's exactly what you need (even if you don't think it's what you want!). Until you're a super-user you just won't have a reason to mess with that stuff, so let it be.

A more helpful comment, perhaps, is that once you realise these system files are in the / folder, and the stuff you want to work on is almost certainly all in the Home folder, turning off the hidden files will drastically reduce the size of the playing field you've found yourself on.

With regards to the hidden (or not) folders in Home, they hold the variable data associated with your various programmes, i.e. customisable settings/options etc. and while you might want to edit these files directly it's quite possible you'll never need to as they're generally modified from within programmes.
- Trying to create shortcuts, or "symbolic links", isn't as easy as right-clicking. Now I have to open the terminal, input two exact, case-sensitive, directory paths that usually gets broken anyway.
Others have explained how to create these. The fact is I almost never use shortcuts. My regularly accessed programmes are all in the panel at the bottom of the screen, and everything else can be easily found in the main menu (bottom left here on Cinnamon). My documents are all filed in a logical sub-structure under the various Home folders (Documents, Photos, Music, etc.). Because the file system is actually much simpler than with Win 10 there just isn't the same need for wormholes...
- And I'm still unclear on any easy way to drag a file from one directory to its parent directory, which is the easiest way to transfer files in Windows.
Drag and drop, moving and copying works fine if a little different to how you're used to doing it. The one thing I really miss in this respect is the ability to draw a select box with the mouse inside a folder to select a load of files together, but it's not a deal breaker!
Can you help me out in making these problems less irritating?
Hope that's what we're all doing!

throwaway25996 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:43 am
Thank you all for trying to help, I fuond a few helpful replies but mostly I'm worried I won't ever find an OS I want. I think a lot of you have a misconception of what I am asking for, though. My ideal OS would be one where all the system files at initial boot are in a single "system" directory, and literally every other file either asks where it's allowed to go or creates a sub-directory in the same folder as whatever program spawned it. I've grudgingly accepted that current OSes can't do that for some unexplained reason, but I was hoping I could at the very least find the kind of distro that would be closer to the ideal than Windows.
Like most of the others here, your 'ideal' sounds like a nightmare to me, as I typically work on multiple file types within projects (seriously, who doesn't???) but if that's how you like to work that's your business. I do think, though, that you'll get used to Linux and it won't bother you in the long run!

Good luck!

Piers.
Main: Dell E6410 - 8GB RAM / 160GB HDD - Dual Boot Mint 19.1 Cinnamon 64-bit / Win 10
Backup: iMac 5.1 - 3GB RAM / 240GB HDD - Dual Boot Mint 19.1 Cinnamon 64-bit / OSX 10.5.8

LogMan
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Re: Help With File Management

Post by LogMan »

Piers66 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:56 pm
Drag and drop, moving and copying works fine if a little different to how you're used to doing it. The one thing I really miss in this respect is the ability to draw a select box with the mouse inside a folder to select a load of files together, but it's not a deal breaker!
Piers.
If you hold CTRL + A it selects all the files at once....

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