[SOLVED] A Different Set of Installation Instructions

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ricardogroetaers
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Re: A Different Set of Installation Instructions

Post by ricardogroetaers » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:35 am

From what I understand from the text, this is a rather elaborate list of suggestions for what to install on Linux Mint.

I find your publication valid regardless of whether I agree or disagree with what is suggested.

I have a small text file titled "Install on Mint" with a list of programs and a brief description of what each program does and whether the experience with it was good or not.
I do not always install the programs listed.

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Re: A Different Set of Installation Instructions

Post by polarvortex » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:51 am

To actually answer your question CommonJoe, a good place to post a guide like this would be in the Tutorials subforum.

There isn't really a place to "announce" it, but you could announce it with a new reply to this thread.

Another place to post guides is the tutorial section of the community site. And you might want to post it on your own blog or website too.

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Re: A Different Set of Installation Instructions

Post by pbear » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:28 pm

Right, the correct place is Tutorials, either here or Community. But not sure it's a good idea.

The lesson I suggest you draw from the feedback, CommonJoe, is that there are a range of opinions on most of these issues. The best option in each installation depends on experience, personal preference, hardware and usage. A guide covering only your set-up has value, but only for illustrative purposes. Conversely, a comprehensive guide would be fiendishly complex, which ISTM is the main reason one has never been written.

Frankly, what you can do that would be more useful is participate on the Forum and help newbies with their particular questions. Use your guide as a resource for tried-and-true solutions when they fit, accepting that they won't always fit.

That's my $0.02's worth.
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Re: A Different Set of Installation Instructions

Post by gm10 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:06 pm

CommonJoe wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:00 am
I hadn't planned to engage in debate. My actual goal was to find a good place for this unusual thing.
Depends on how it turns out. If it's strictly improved installation instructions then you could even submit them as a pull request to the official instructions. But if it's - as it appears to be - more a guide as to how to do certain tasks post installation, then indeed the tutorials section as pointed out above, or even create an off-site blog with tutorials like Pjotr has done.

That aside I'm also not interested in debating, but since many opinions have been given out I'll add my 2c just for perspective:
  • Enabling the firewall is never wrong and for that reason also part of the "First Steps" on Mint's welcome screen.
  • In my opinion every device that leaves the house should typically be encrypted, no matter the user's proficiency level. On others it's optional. I agree that full disk encryption is preferable but it is incorrect to say that ecryptfs is deprecated, it continues to be maintained.
  • I am probably the only one around here who says that desktop Linux is structurally less secure than Windows 10, but I am saying it. Infrastructurally it is more secure (repositories and all that) but that is not the use case you are trying to protect against. Those users typically running afoul of viruses would do so on either system, because it is those not following best practices. Whether the false sense of security provided by an anti-virus software is the right solution is another question. I never installed one on either Windows or Linux so I am the wrong one to discuss this. But do not let people tell you that Linux is secure and that there is no native malware.
  • Regarding Microsoft's fonts, those in the repository are from 1999 (due to licensing issues) and do not contain all the "features" of the fonts users are used to on Windows these days. Just something to be aware of when recommending to install them.
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Re: A Different Set of Installation Instructions

Post by CommonJoe » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:27 pm

polarvortex wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:51 am
To actually answer your question CommonJoe, a good place to post a guide like this would be in the Tutorials subforum.

There isn't really a place to "announce" it, but you could announce it with a new reply to this thread.

Another place to post guides is the tutorial section of the community site. And you might want to post it on your own blog or website too.
polarvortex, thank you. I'll definitely check these out and give them strong consideration.
pbear wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:28 pm
A guide covering only your set-up has value, but only for illustrative purposes. Conversely, a comprehensive guide would be fiendishly complex, which ISTM is the main reason one has never been written.
Fully agree. These are my notes for me, and even I don't always follow them exactly. It always depends on the situation. Nevertheless, I'm including some side notes that I think would have value for someone coming from the Windows world. In the end, every person has to make up their own mind and forge their own way.
pbear wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:28 pm
Frankly, what you can do that would be more useful is participate on the Forum and help newbies with their particular questions. Use your guide as a resource for tried-and-true solutions when they fit, accepting that they won't always fit.

That's my $0.02's worth.
I know they won't always fit.

I don't think I'll have time to help newbies on the forum, but I'll consider that as it seems to be something I can be fairly good at.

And thank you for your two cents.
gm10 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:06 pm
Enabling the firewall is never wrong and for that reason also part of the "First Steps" on Mint's welcome screen.
My target is deployment by a single user on a desktop or laptop. Although there are some very specific circumstances where a firewall is not necessary (i.e., desktop that never moves and behind router firewall), I fully agree with you. A user should specifically know which circumstances they can cut this particular step out.
gm10 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:06 pm
In my opinion every device that leaves the house should typically be encrypted, no matter the user's proficiency level. On others it's optional. I agree that full disk encryption is preferable but it is incorrect to say that ecryptfs is deprecated, it continues to be maintained.
I had to go back and re-read the sources where I pulled that information from. I was (sort of) incorrect. eCryptfs has not been abandoned, but it has been deprecated in Red Hat and Ubuntu.

Linux Mint is downstream from Ubuntu, so in effect, eCryptfs has been deprecated for Linux Mint.

Sources: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... ates-Btrfs and https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comme ... _approach/

(Please, someone correct me if these sources are incorrect -- especially if the Ubuntu source is incorrect. I could not find any other information on the subject.)
gm10 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:06 pm
I am probably the only one around here who says that desktop Linux is structurally less secure than Windows 10, but I am saying it. Infrastructurally it is more secure (repositories and all that) but that is not the use case you are trying to protect against. Those users typically running afoul of viruses would do so on either system, because it is those not following best practices. Whether the false sense of security provided by an anti-virus software is the right solution is another question. I never installed one on either Windows or Linux so I am the wrong one to discuss this. But do not let people tell you that Linux is secure and that there is no native malware.
I can't agree with you fully here (although, but I understand where you're coming from). I have never, however, been under the illusion that Linux is magically secure because "Linux". Hence the reason I'm trying apply some focus to that.
gm10 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:06 pm
Regarding Microsoft's fonts, those in the repository are from 1999 (due to licensing issues) and do not contain all the "features" of the fonts users are used to on Windows these days. Just something to be aware of when recommending to install them.
Interesting. I'll look more into this.

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Re: A Different Set of Installation Instructions

Post by gm10 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:30 am

CommonJoe wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:27 pm
eCryptfs has not been abandoned, but it has been deprecated in Red Hat and Ubuntu.

Linux Mint is downstream from Ubuntu, so in effect, eCryptfs has been deprecated for Linux Mint.
Not so. Deprecated by Ubuntu just means that they removed the support from their installer because they did not want to deal with certain issues. Certainly not deprecated by Mint, however, where support for home folder encryption has been specifically added back into the installer again. I know because I helped make that happen.

Ubuntu is Mint's software base but Mint is still a distribution of its own, it does not follow all of Ubuntu's decisions. If it did you could just install Ubuntu itself.
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Re: A Different Set of Installation Instructions

Post by catweazel » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:40 am

CommonJoe wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:27 pm
gm10 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:06 pm
Regarding Microsoft's fonts, those in the repository are from 1999 (due to licensing issues) and do not contain all the "features" of the fonts users are used to on Windows these days. Just something to be aware of when recommending to install them.
Interesting. I'll look more into this.
If you have a valid Windwoes licence then there is, AFAIK, no impediment to copying them to one's linux installation.
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Re: A Different Set of Installation Instructions

Post by Pjotr » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:57 am

catweazel wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:40 am
CommonJoe wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:27 pm
gm10 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:06 pm
Regarding Microsoft's fonts, those in the repository are from 1999 (due to licensing issues) and do not contain all the "features" of the fonts users are used to on Windows these days. Just something to be aware of when recommending to install them.
Interesting. I'll look more into this.
If you have a valid Windwoes licence then there is, AFAIK, no impediment to copying them to one's linux installation.
Strictly legally speaking there might be such a legal impediment (haven't looked into it), but I question the moral validity of legal impediments like that. It's like selling a pot with the restriction that the customer is only allowed to use it on a stove from one particular manufacturer. In other words:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kKXvDaJIzQ
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Re: A Different Set of Installation Instructions

Post by catweazel » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:09 am

Pjotr wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:57 am
catweazel wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:40 am
CommonJoe wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:27 pm


Interesting. I'll look more into this.
If you have a valid Windwoes licence then there is, AFAIK, no impediment to copying them to one's linux installation.
Strictly legally speaking there might be such a legal impediment (haven't looked into it), but I question the moral validity of legal impediments like that. It's like selling a pot with the restriction that the customer is only allowed to use it on a stove from one particular manufacturer. In other words:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kKXvDaJIzQ
I was wrong about the impediment...

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typogr ... s/font-faq

Though the fonts can be purchased...

https://www.fonts.com/font/microsoft-co ... on/calibri
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Re: A Different Set of Installation Instructions

Post by CommonJoe » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:25 am

catweazel wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:09 am
I was wrong about the impediment...

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typogr ... s/font-faq
That's the first time I've seen that. I'd suspected, but never seen it. Thanks for the follow up.

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Re: A Different Set of Installation Instructions

Post by CommonJoe » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:28 am

gm10 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:30 am
Not so. Deprecated by Ubuntu just means that they removed the support from their installer because they did not want to deal with certain issues. Certainly not deprecated by Mint, however, where support for home folder encryption has been specifically added back into the installer again. I know because I helped make that happen.
That's awesome! Thanks!

Hmmm... now I'll have to update that section of my notes again. Well, that's not your problem, though. That's mine. I'm simply trying to be accurate so as not to lead the newbies astray.

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Re: A Different Set of Installation Instructions

Post by Pjotr » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:17 am

Note that you can install two Google-made free fonts as replacements for Microsoft's Calibri and Cambria. And you can configure Libre Office to use them as such:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... e.html#ID6
(item 6)

Perhaps a link in your notes? :P
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Re: A Different Set of Installation Instructions

Post by CommonJoe » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:19 am

Pjotr wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:17 am
Note that you can install two Google-made free fonts as replacements for Microsoft's Calibri and Cambria. And you can configure Libre Office to use them as such:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... e.html#ID6
(item 6)

Perhaps a link in your notes? :P
I'm assuming the notes are yours? I can't say I agree with 100% of everything, but you've got some really good stuff in there. I'd be happy to link to the notes.

If the notes are yours, I'll do the following (unless you have objections) -- put the exact command to install the fonts into my notes with a specific thanks to you for the suggestion and a link to the LibreOffice notes where they were taken from. I'll also give a link to the main site, and links to anything else that catches my eye that relates to what I'm talking about. If you'd rather me just link to your notes without the direct command in my notes, that's fine too.

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Re: A Different Set of Installation Instructions

Post by Pjotr » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:51 am

CommonJoe wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:19 am
Pjotr wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:17 am
Note that you can install two Google-made free fonts as replacements for Microsoft's Calibri and Cambria. And you can configure Libre Office to use them as such:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... e.html#ID6
(item 6)

Perhaps a link in your notes? :P
I'm assuming the notes are yours? I can't say I agree with 100% of everything, but you've got some really good stuff in there. I'd be happy to link to the notes.

If the notes are yours, I'll do the following (unless you have objections) -- put the exact command to install the fonts into my notes with a specific thanks to you for the suggestion and a link to the LibreOffice notes where they were taken from. I'll also give a link to the main site, and links to anything else that catches my eye that relates to what I'm talking about.
Indeed they're mine, and your proposal sounds fine to me. :)
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