Seeking more capable system dialogs.

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rene
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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by rene »

A web browser is an application for browsing the web, not a generic "network access portal". That is, said movie player would simply contact whatever, wherever and however directly. Via the web if applicable, and in that case likely while using a system-supplied rendering engine, but not "via the browser" (whose engine is in the case of Mint's default browser, Firefox, in fact even fully different from library-level GTK support in that area which uses something Webkit-derived),

I am afraid your picture of how software is layered, on Linux or Windows, is just completely off; shall as such not speak further of generics. Your question was answered it seems: no, changing (functionality of) standard dialogues is not a user-level adjustment; if you don't like a dialogue an application presents the option is to use a different application. If the dislike is GTK3-generic, so is said advise, and you'd try KDE.

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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by ColdBootII »

markfilipak wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:37 pm

Well, Murray, there's D-Bus. Is no one implimenting it?

Philosphy Example: I open Synaptic to see whether I have dbus installed. I do. I want to swipe-copy the version number, but Synaptic doesn't support swiping. If I want to manually copy the version number I have to open 'xed', un-maximize it, then position it so that it doesn't overlap, then type the version number into 'xed' so that I can then paste it in here. I have dbus 1.12.2-1ubuntu1.1.

Yeah, you can't swipe copy the version number from right grid pane view of Synaptic, but if you open Properties for the dbus package, then you can swipe copy version number and paste here by middle click. Edit: you can also drag & drop it here. Even in Windows you cannot do it with every type of control used.

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markfilipak
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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by markfilipak »

rene wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:03 pm
A web browser is an application for browsing the web, not a generic "network access portal". ...
So a web browser plug-in could not be used by another application via dbus. Okay.

I don't want to argue the point; I don't want to argue at all!

The only reason I brought up dbus was as a clue to where more capable system dialogs might be found. I'm told there are no system dialogs, but then GTK is mentioned. I understand that some applications use GTK and some applications use other libraries and some applications roll their own interfaces. I don't know what the capabiities of GTK dialogs are and I don't know what applicaitons use GTK. And I don't know how to find that information.

I don't know what other libraries there are or what applications use them.

If you (or anyone reading this) know where information can be found regarding pseudo-system dialogs (or libraries or whatever), or whatever you may call them, would you kindly clue me in. I just want better, more capable dialogs. Okay?

From what I've found, Qt is the widget library of choice for many elegant applications. I will read more about Qt and try to discover whether Mint supports it or I have to leave Mint. Any further guidance is welcome.

As I read stuff like this: "GTK is the standard toolkit for GNOME while Qt is used by KDE", all I feel is anxiety.

Mint is Ubuntu, right?
Cinnamon is a DM for Mint, right?
MATE is a DM for Mint, right?
KDE is ...what?

If the Linux community tried to make this confusing, they couldn't 'improve' on the confusion that already exists.

And all I want is more capable system dialogs.

I cannot believe what a mess this is.

The sole reason I chose Mint was that it seemed the most popular (based on what I read, which may be wrong). I am not wedded to Mint. I can create VMs quickly, but what do I put in the VMs? I really haven't a clue.

Kindly remember that this forum is "Newbie Questions" and don't blast me. I've been using Mint (with Cinnamon, and before that, XFCE) for several years. I feel that I've not learned anything.

And all I want is more capable system dialogs.

Please, help me.

markfilipak
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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by markfilipak »

ColdBootII wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:50 pm
markfilipak wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:37 pm

Well, Murray, there's D-Bus. Is no one implimenting it?

Philosphy Example: I open Synaptic to see whether I have dbus installed. I do. I want to swipe-copy the version number, but Synaptic doesn't support swiping. If I want to manually copy the version number I have to open 'xed', un-maximize it, then position it so that it doesn't overlap, then type the version number into 'xed' so that I can then paste it in here. I have dbus 1.12.2-1ubuntu1.1.

Yeah, you can't swipe copy the version number from right grid pane view of Synaptic, but if you open Properties for the dbus package ...
I swear I tried that and it didn't work. Well, it works now. ...do I feel stupid? :mrgreen:

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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by ColdBootII »

markfilipak wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:36 pm

Mint is Ubuntu, right?
Cinnamon is a DM for Mint, right?
MATE is a DM for Mint, right?
KDE is ...what?

And all I want is more capable system dialogs.
-Mint is a Linux distribution based on Ubuntu.
-Cinnamon is a Desktop Environment(DE) developed by Mint team but used in other distros also
-MATE is a DE, not just for Mint, it's developed independently
-KDE is a DE also independent, used in many distros but not by Mint.


Well, you can't expect to have it your way in everything. :mrgreen:

HTH, Cheers

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murray
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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by murray »

markfilipak wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:36 pm
If you (or anyone reading this) know where information can be found regarding pseudo-system dialogs (or libraries or whatever), or whatever you may call them, would you kindly clue me in. I just want better, more capable dialogs. Okay?
Does this help? https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable ... ialog.html
Running Mint 19.3 Cinnamon on an Intel NUC8i5BEH with 16GB RAM and 500GB SSD

markfilipak
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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by markfilipak »

murray wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:59 pm
markfilipak wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:36 pm
If you (or anyone reading this) know where information can be found regarding pseudo-system dialogs (or libraries or whatever), or whatever you may call them, would you kindly clue me in. I just want better, more capable dialogs. Okay?
Does this help? https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable ... ialog.html
Thank you, Murray. I looked at it. I have 2 reactions:
1, That dialog appears to also have no /'..path..'/'..file..' text box, and
2, The page doesn't look like it offers something for users, it looks like it offers something for devs.
I'm not a dev. I'm a Newbie. But thanks for the try. I appreciate your concern.

rene
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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by rene »

GTK and Qt are the two important "toolkits" on Linux; sets of libraries that applications use to provide a graphical user interface. Both toolkits provide for standard dialogues such as the "Open File" dialogue, although it should be noted that also GTK applications are free to not use them, or to not use them as is.

GTK is the toolkit that primarily underlies the GNOME desktop environment. Cinnamon is basically GNOME with "only" a replaced GNOME Shell, the part of the desktop environment the user interacts with directly. Both MATE (a fork of an older GNOME version) and Xfce also use GTK as their toolkit.

Qt is the toolkit that a fair number of programs both commercial and non-commercial and on Linux as well as Windows use directly, but here it is mostly relevant that it is the toolkit that underlies the "K Desktop Environment", KDE. Until 18.x Mint had a KDE edition; does not any more specifically due to the Mint developers feeling KDE-Qt too different from GNOME/Cinnamon/MATE/Xfce-Gtk to support.
markfilipak wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:36 pm
And all I want is more capable system dialogs.
Mint does 'support' Qt itself and many individual programs written using it; for example VLC is a Qt application (although I'd personally hold it to not be the prettiest one). As explained however, in the senses in which "system" makes sense, your desire means you desire not a GTK-based desktop environment and, therefore, since version 19 something other than Mint. Install KDE Neon: https://neon.kde.org/download. When I tried it last, it used the same Ubuntu 18.04 LTS base as Mint 19 does, so other than desktop environment differences with Mint are fairly minimal. You may feel it more to your liking.

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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by Spearmint2 »

K3b is my favorite burner program, so glad Qt is supported in Mint.
All things go better with Mint. Mint julep, mint jelly, mint gum, candy mints, pillow mints, peppermint, chocolate mints, spearmint,....

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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by markfilipak »

rene wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:26 pm
... Install KDE Neon: https://neon.kde.org/download. When I tried it last, it used the same Ubuntu 18.04 LTS base as Mint 19 does, so other than desktop environment differences with Mint are fairly minimal. You may feel it more to your liking.
René, I think that's not a distro. I don't know what it is. There's no installation instructions, the forum has no installation section, the installer itself -- Yes, I did try installing it -- has no way to partition the target disk and no way to create swap.

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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by ColdBootII »

I will add that you can try many KDE distros at distrotest.net live, in your browser window, without the need to download iso's and burn. There's no Neon (probably due to its experimental nature) but you can give a go to Kubuntu which is very similar to Mint, except for the used DE. It installs the same way and I can tell you, they also have a very friendly forum to help out when they can.

See, Kate editor has the path box, you so desire. :mrgreen: HTH, Cheers

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rene
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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by rene »

markfilipak wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:18 am
René, I think that's not a distro.
I do not know what to tell you at that point.

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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by Moem »

markfilipak wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:18 am
There's no installation instructions, the forum has no installation section, the installer itself -- Yes, I did try installing it -- has no way to partition the target disk and no way to create swap.
This is what it means when people say that Mint is a beginner-friendly distro.
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

rene
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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by rene »

Yes, well, that's all well and fine, but Neon's installer most certainly can partition; it's basically the same install experience as Mint. KDE Neon is not unsuitable for anyone who has used Ubuntu itself or Mint before.

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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by markfilipak »

rene wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:58 am
Yes, well, that's all well and fine, but Neon's installer most certainly can partition; it's basically the same install experience as Mint. KDE Neon is not unsuitable for anyone who has used Ubuntu itself or Mint before.
The issue, René, is whether the KDE neon site / people can provide support and are willing to provide support if I have problems. It strongly appears they are not. I have removed KDE neon from my VM to-do list.

rene
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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by rene »

markfilipak wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:03 pm
The issue, René, is whether the KDE neon site / people can provide support and are willing to provide support if I have problems. It strongly appears they are not.
And you feel that this thread on the Mint forums is moving in a different direction, as to that specific point? :-)

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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by markfilipak »

rene wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:15 pm
markfilipak wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:03 pm
The issue, René, is whether the KDE neon site / people can provide support and are willing to provide support if I have problems. It strongly appears they are not.
And you feel that this thread on the Mint forums is moving in a different direction, as to that specific point? :-)
I'm unsure what you mean.

I seek more capable system dialogs.

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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by Moem »

markfilipak wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:03 pm
The issue, René, is whether the KDE neon site / people can provide support and are willing to provide support if I have problems.
And if they can't or won't, that makes it not a distro? :?
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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by BG405 »

markfilipak wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:18 am
I think that's not a distro
I would class it as one, but this is what they have to say about it:
Is it a distro? 🔗

Not quite, it's a package archive with the latest KDE software on top of a stable base. While we have installable images, unlike full Linux distributions we're only interested in KDE software.
From https://neon.kde.org/faq :)
Dell Inspiron 1525 - LM17.3 CE 64-------------------Lenovo T440 8GB - Manjaro KDE with Mint VMs
Toshiba NB250 - Manjaro KDE------------------------K7S5A AMD 1.2GHz - LM17.3 Xfce 32 & WinXP-Pro
Acer Aspire E11 ES1-111M - LM18.2 KDE 64 ----Dell PII 350 64MB - Puppy 4.3 & Win98-SE

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Re: Seeking more capable system dialogs.

Post by markfilipak »

Moem wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:24 pm
markfilipak wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:03 pm
The issue, René, is whether the KDE neon site / people can provide support and are willing to provide support if I have problems.
And if they can't or won't, that makes it not a distro? :?
I don't know what constitutes being a distro, Moem. I just know that if an organization doesn't provide support, it's nor real. KDE neon is not real. I want nothing to do with it.

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