[Solved] Burning important data what software and any more advice?

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ThaCrip
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Re: [Solved] Burning important data what software and any more advice?

Post by ThaCrip »

totally lost wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:49 pm
Far as being gone in 20 years idk. You can still buy the super old tape style data readers from before i was born. In fact you can still get VHS tape players Atrack tape players and so on. Sure they are harder to find but still there. Even record players are coming back. Either way if something new comes out i will jump on that one to with yet another copy. They are not my only copy either. The HDDs will be more up to date provided i never kill all of them at once.
Yeah, maybe DVD readers will still be around in 20+ years but it's less certain is all and might be harder to find and I suspect once stuff is harder to find, costs will probably rise a bit to (especially once they stop producing DVD drives) and, come to think of it, not only that but if computers ever start phasing out SATA ports that could be another issue as even older IDE burners are more difficult to use right now due to lack of semi-recent computers having IDE ports as a couple of my older CD/DVD burners (Liteon 24102b/Liteon 1673S) are IDE connections. granted, I have them installed on my older PC's motherboard I got in March 2006 but if that ever dies at some point they might be more difficult to use properly. sure, I realize I can use them on some level with one of those devices that convert to a USB connection and all but it's not really optimal. but I guess if reading the disc is primarily ones concern, it's passable. but I guess one could argue just use a SATA DVD burner/reader which one easily could as I still have a couple of SATA based DVD burners (Sony Optiarc 7240s/Liteon iHAS324B). but hopefully computers continue to use the basic SATA port for many years to come.

but when it comes to general data backup... between a hard drive and quality recordable DVD media (say Verbatim/Taiyo Yuden) I tend to trust DVD media more to reliably retrieve my data from it in 10-20 years time (even though the hard drive is definitely more convenient, obviously). recordable DVD is just a solid backup to general hard drive backups for higher importance kind of data as between CD/DVD/BluRay, while BluRay is better in the sense you can get a lot more data on there per disc vs CD/DVD, I wonder about it's reliability in 10-20 years of time as I think DVD is more proven in that regard. maybe some recordable BluRay media is solid though but I have no desire to jump on the BluRay recordable bandwagon especially once hard drives prices came way down to where it's easily the best choice for general data backup overall, especially if you got at least a copy of your important data on two different hard drives at the minimum and one can always opt for burning to DVD for the smaller amount of family pictures/videos of higher importance as an additional safety measure against data loss and 4.7GB a disc sure beats 700MB for a CD-R which is almost nothing so using CD-R for data backup is just not practical in today's world as those are a MUSIC CD only kind of thing at this point and for many years now and I could see one arguing in favor of BluRay given it's 5.3 times the amount of data vs a standard DVD (i.e. 25GB vs 4.7GB) but I have heard BluRay burners tend to fail more often(?). but all-in-all, costs are still a bit steep to get into BluRay burning if you ask me (and there reliability seems to be questionable compared to DVD) especially given I already still have quite a few DVD recordable discs from many years ago ready to use for my occasional use.

just some thoughts ;)

totally lost
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Re: [Solved] Burning important data what software and any more advice?

Post by totally lost »

ThaCrip wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:27 pm
totally lost wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:49 pm
Far as being gone in 20 years idk. You can still buy the super old tape style data readers from before i was born. In fact you can still get VHS tape players Atrack tape players and so on. Sure they are harder to find but still there. Even record players are coming back. Either way if something new comes out i will jump on that one to with yet another copy. They are not my only copy either. The HDDs will be more up to date provided i never kill all of them at once.
Yeah, maybe DVD readers will still be around in 20+ years but it's less certain is all and might be harder to find and I suspect once stuff is harder to find, costs will probably rise a bit to (especially once they stop producing DVD drives) and, come to think of it, not only that but if computers ever start phasing out SATA ports that could be another issue as even older IDE burners are more difficult to use right now due to lack of semi-recent computers having IDE ports as a couple of my older CD/DVD burners (Liteon 24102b/Liteon 1673S) are IDE connections. granted, I have them installed on my older PC's motherboard I got in March 2006 but if that ever dies at some point they might be more difficult to use properly. sure, I realize I can use them on some level with one of those devices that convert to a USB connection and all but it's not really optimal. but I guess if reading the disc is primarily ones concern, it's passable. but I guess one could argue just use a SATA DVD burner/reader which one easily could as I still have a couple of SATA based DVD burners (Sony Optiarc 7240s/Liteon iHAS324B). but hopefully computers continue to use the basic SATA port for many years to come.

but when it comes to general data backup... between a hard drive and quality recordable DVD media (say Verbatim/Taiyo Yuden) I tend to trust DVD media more to reliably retrieve my data from it in 10-20 years time (even though the hard drive is definitely more convenient, obviously). recordable DVD is just a solid backup to general hard drive backups for higher importance kind of data as between CD/DVD/BluRay, while BluRay is better in the sense you can get a lot more data on there per disc vs CD/DVD, I wonder about it's reliability in 10-20 years of time as I think DVD is more proven in that regard. maybe some recordable BluRay media is solid though but I have no desire to jump on the BluRay recordable bandwagon especially once hard drives prices came way down to where it's easily the best choice for general data backup overall, especially if you got at least a copy of your important data on two different hard drives at the minimum and one can always opt for burning to DVD for the smaller amount of family pictures/videos of higher importance as an additional safety measure against data loss and 4.7GB a disc sure beats 700MB for a CD-R which is almost nothing so using CD-R for data backup is just not practical in today's world as those are a MUSIC CD only kind of thing at this point and for many years now and I could see one arguing in favor of BluRay given it's 5.3 times the amount of data vs a standard DVD (i.e. 25GB vs 4.7GB) but I have heard BluRay burners tend to fail more often(?). but all-in-all, costs are still a bit steep to get into BluRay burning if you ask me (and there reliability seems to be questionable compared to DVD) especially given I already still have quite a few DVD recordable discs from many years ago ready to use for my occasional use.

just some thoughts ;)
One thing i would like to add to my last reply only because you reminded me of it while reading this. DVDs probably wont go away to darn fast. Simply because some of the old ways are just to good and nothing is better for 1 specific task. You talked about CDs and we still have them! I went back to buying CDs actually. I went threw the hole MP3 garbage and smashing 150 songs on one 1 CD just so i was not switching dics all the time and MP3 on USB. But i never understood why it sounded so bad! I remember making great sounding music in my vehicle with some good amps, speakers and subs. I finally figured it out. MP3 compresses it taking away the song. Well bits of it. Once i learned that i was ready to run CDs again finding most formats compress the data until i learned how to rip them as the full WAV file they are on the disc. And thats what i did. I bought a hole bunch of CDs again and went to town ripping them. Now i put it on a USB flash drive and in the vehicles. I can fit more songs with no noticeable quality loss. Also less loss in the head unit trying to convert it some say. CDs are still to my knowledge the best quality strait from the artist form to get music. Some CDs or MP3 on amazon is the only way. Sure there are some sites who sell WAV ripped music but how do you know what they changed? Maybe the ripper didn't but the software they used did? Some rippers come with preset volumes so not all songs will play as the intended volume on the disc. This leads to clipping bluh bluh. Or what if they had a bad disc? Whats next music coming on DVDs? I sure don't want stuck with Itunes or some other mass compressed crap!

Now i opened a can of worms because i said MP3 sounds bad VS full audio from a CD. Granted even i noticed the type of music makes a difference if you can notice or not so i believe both sides of the argument depending on the music playing.

Either way i think there is a good chance DVD or Blu ray will still be able to be read many years from now. Even if i had to buy a old used drive off ebay and buy some old school adapter to what ever is new at the time. Cost don't really matter. The cost of losing pics of my kids is much greater to me.

ThaCrip
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Re: [Solved] Burning important data what software and any more advice?

Post by ThaCrip »

totally lost wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:05 am
MP3 compresses it taking away the song. Well bits of it. Once i learned that i was ready to run CDs again finding most formats compress the data until i learned how to rip them as the full WAV file they are on the disc. And thats what i did. I bought a hole bunch of CDs again and went to town ripping them. Now i put it on a USB flash drive and in the vehicles. I can fit more songs with no noticeable quality loss. Also less loss in the head unit trying to convert it some say. CDs are still to my knowledge the best quality strait from the artist form to get music. Some CDs or MP3 on amazon is the only way. Sure there are some sites who sell WAV ripped music but how do you know what they changed? Maybe the ripper didn't but the software they used did? Some rippers come with preset volumes so not all songs will play as the intended volume on the disc. This leads to clipping bluh bluh.
It's largely pointless to use just WAV when you can use FLAC instead as the sound quality is the same, since FLAC is a lossless audio format, but at about half of the file size of the WAV file.

so I just keep the FLAC files and if you need lossy files you can make them from the FLAC to Opus/AAC/MP3 etc whenever you want (I use Foobar2000 for doing this(which on Linux will require the installation of Wine)). if a device plays Opus, I suggest that since it can obtain a given sound quality at less bit rate than AAC and especially MP3. with Opus, 96kbps is likely plenty for most people and even 64kbps is good and best of all it's quite efficient on storage space. but if you got storage space to burn and your device can play FLAC files, you can use that, but personally for music on-the-go I would use a lossy format (i.e. Opus/AAC/MP3 etc)

totally lost
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Re: [Solved] Burning important data what software and any more advice?

Post by totally lost »

ThaCrip wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:06 am
totally lost wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:05 am
MP3 compresses it taking away the song. Well bits of it. Once i learned that i was ready to run CDs again finding most formats compress the data until i learned how to rip them as the full WAV file they are on the disc. And thats what i did. I bought a hole bunch of CDs again and went to town ripping them. Now i put it on a USB flash drive and in the vehicles. I can fit more songs with no noticeable quality loss. Also less loss in the head unit trying to convert it some say. CDs are still to my knowledge the best quality strait from the artist form to get music. Some CDs or MP3 on amazon is the only way. Sure there are some sites who sell WAV ripped music but how do you know what they changed? Maybe the ripper didn't but the software they used did? Some rippers come with preset volumes so not all songs will play as the intended volume on the disc. This leads to clipping bluh bluh.
It's largely pointless to use just WAV when you can use FLAC instead as the sound quality is the same, since FLAC is a lossless audio format, but at about half of the file size of the WAV file.

so I just keep the FLAC files and if you need lossy files you can make them from the FLAC to Opus/AAC/MP3 etc whenever you want (I use Foobar2000 for doing this(which on Linux will require the installation of Wine)). if a device plays Opus, I suggest that since it can obtain a given sound quality at less bit rate than AAC and especially MP3. with Opus, 96kbps is likely plenty for most people and even 64kbps is good and best of all it's quite efficient on storage space. but if you got storage space to burn and your device can play FLAC files, you can use that, but personally for music on-the-go I would use a lossy format (i.e. Opus/AAC/MP3 etc)
The way I understood it flac takes more to decode for the vehicle head unit. I dont really know. Also some things about any compression will degrade music while maybe not enough to notice still does. Most important reason that slapped me in the face was the issues with the head units i tried using flac on. It was so picky and was made for playing flac files. WAV also loaded faster in that particular head unit. Not to mention converting to flac is yet another step and then if i ever wanted to put the music on another disc i got to yet again convert it back to wav. Convert convert convert. No thanks. What i understand converting all the time degrades it to. Maybe i am all wrong but i don't have to play convert all the time if later on people find out Flac is garbage or not supported or who knows i am safe with the wav and can convert the wav later. Now if i went with flac then things went wrong i have to start ripping from scratch again... Yea i have storage to burn for music. 4TB drives are like 100 bucks new? Thats about what i paid for the last one. USB flash drives are cheap and i have a large collection of them. I fit everything i want portable in wav on a 64GB flash drive. Even then i have 2 different 64GB flash drives in my truck to separate the genre not because i run out of room. Storage is not a issue. Some are fine with low quality like MP3 thats fine for you. Some of us want the best of the best and will take no less! If you are using stock head unit stock speakers you have no advantages using anything better then MP3. Once you throw in 1000watt amp just to run your mid's and high's the game changes fast! I am pretty sure i stated the type of music you play makes a difference. It is the fast paced lots of things going on songs that you notice. Slower songs not even i can tell.

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Re: [Solved] Burning important data what software and any more advice?

Post by ThaCrip »

totally lost wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:04 pm
The way I understood it flac takes more to decode for the vehicle head unit. I dont really know. Also some things about any compression will degrade music while maybe not enough to notice still does. Most important reason that slapped me in the face was the issues with the head units i tried using flac on. It was so picky and was made for playing flac files. WAV also loaded faster in that particular head unit. Not to mention converting to flac is yet another step and then if i ever wanted to put the music on another disc i got to yet again convert it back to wav. Convert convert convert. No thanks. What i understand converting all the time degrades it to. Maybe i am all wrong but i don't have to play convert all the time if later on people find out Flac is garbage or not supported or who knows i am safe with the wav and can convert the wav later. Now if i went with flac then things went wrong i have to start ripping from scratch again... Yea i have storage to burn for music. 4TB drives are like 100 bucks new? Thats about what i paid for the last one. USB flash drives are cheap and i have a large collection of them. I fit everything i want portable in wav on a 64GB flash drive. Even then i have 2 different 64GB flash drives in my truck to separate the genre not because i run out of room. Storage is not a issue. Some are fine with low quality like MP3 thats fine for you. Some of us want the best of the best and will take no less! If you are using stock head unit stock speakers you have no advantages using anything better then MP3. Once you throw in 1000watt amp just to run your mid's and high's the game changes fast! I am pretty sure i stated the type of music you play makes a difference. It is the fast paced lots of things going on songs that you notice. Slower songs not even i can tell.
FLAC is lossless meaning there is zero loss in sound quality as it does not discard any data from the original WAV file. it's sort of like a zip file, compresses it temporarily and when it plays the FLAC it decodes it back to the original/uncompressed sound stream. FLAC and WAV are identical in sound quality but since FLAC takes up about half of the storage space, it does not make much sense to keep WAV around since your saving a good deal of storage space. plus, even if you needed a WAV file for whatever reason, you could always convert from FLAC back to WAV with no sound quality loss. because if FLAC lost sound quality it would not be called lossless and would be referred to as lossy format like how Opus/AAC/MP3 etc are, but it's not. those who claim to hear a difference between WAV and FLAC likely cannot as those who claim they can, try a ABX test (you load your WAV file and FLAC file into it and purely by listening you have to find out whether Sample A matches X or Y and Sample B matches X or Y and do it say 15 times or so) with Foobar2000 as it's a double blind test and will help prove if one can really hear a difference or not (that ABX thing is a plugin for Foobar2000 as it's not installed by default). most people won't do as well as they think once they do this (even with lossy audio, once you reach a certain bit rate most people won't be able to tell the difference on most equipment etc) ;)

so if you always convert from say FLAC to Opus/AAC/MP3 there is no additional loss in sound quality besides the initial encode to that lossy format. just always convert from the FLAC and you will always get the highest quality lossy files that way as, to state the obvious, you don't want to go from lossy format to another lossy format as then quality will start degrading further and further.

also, FLAC uses very little CPU to as it's easier to decode than Opus/AAC/MP3 etc.

also, you don't have to rip from scratch again with FLAC as it's a one time rip and your done forever as anytime you need a different format you can convert from the FLAC file which is faster than re-ripping the original audio cd. you can even go from FLAC back to WAV if you want to.

with that said... yeah, storage space is rather cheap compared to what it was roughly 10 years ago. so I get your not too concerned with storage space but at the same time, why waste it for no real benefit ;)

even with MP3 the sound quality is solid if the bitrate is high enough (but I generally avoid MP3 unless a person must use it simply because, as I mentioned before, it requires a higher bitrate to achieve a certain level of sound quality as with Opus/AAC you can generally get into the lower bit rates while still maintaining strong all around sound quality. like with AAC/Opus most people probably won't need more than 128kbps where as with MP3 I would generally avoid anything lower than the LAME v5 (130kbps) setting if you want to be reasonably safe). or put it this way... take most headphones/speakers (even better than average ones) and the like, once you reach a certain bit rate it's unlikely most people could tell the difference between the lossy and lossless audio file. like with Opus even at only 96kbps it's at that point to where I can confidently say most people won't be able to tell the difference (it's quite efficient at that bit rate to) and beyond 128kbps with Opus is largely a waste of storage space (hell, even Opus @ 64kbps is solid all around considering the low bit rate even though one does start gambling a bit on sound quality but even at 64kbps it's not going to sound anywhere near bad). I realize storage space is cheap, but it's more of the thought of losing efficiency as for music on-the-go I would image people would rather use a 96kbps Opus file over a massive FLAC/WAV file (like say on their smart phone etc(Foobar2000 is available on Android smart phones)). FLAC is mostly good for archiving (like your fall back copy to you always have the highest quality source to make your music from) and if you ever need to change your current music to another lossy format, you can do it quickly with the FLAC file using Foobar2000 etc.

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Re: [Solved] Burning important data what software and any more advice?

Post by totally lost »

Bluh bluh bluh What part of i don't want to convert things all the time don't you understand?

What part of i have no shortage of storage space do you not understand?

I went threw the Head unit having a harder time playing flac and spoke with the manufacturer. They are the ones who told me it takes more power to decode flac! I mean they built the darn thing what did you do read on some off the wall reddit post?


I have personally taken a blind test with the use of my preferred songs. MP3 at 320 bitrate is very noticeably worse with good quality audio equipment. No not the cheap desktop computer speakers you probably have. It is also harder to tell playing a slow country song VS a fast paced hard rock song. Slow country simply does not have as much data to start with. I did not test any other format other then MP3 at 320 bit rate. I don't have to "think" i "KNOW" I only explained how i first noticed the difference. I did go test it. Not only that the poor quality from MP3 even at 320 bitrate will show up as distortion to my speakers. Yea i tested that to. You are welcome to go buy your very own oscilloscope. Better have deep pockets but you are worried about buying cheap storage i am sure you don't have a grand to drop on a oscilloscope for a 1 time test.

Id love to see you take your ride into a sound quality contest playing some MP3 at 128kbs. You would get laughed out of there so fast LMFAO!

A little personal insight In my school records it is noted several times during the hearing tests i could hear higher frequencies then normal and at lower volumes then normal. In fact i normally had to go threw a longer test as the operator thought i was just good at guessing.

With that said you do you man. Have fun with your converting back and forth. This thread had nothing to do with burning music files anyways. I found my way that works for me. Maybe one day you will find your own so you don't have to convert stuff over and over.

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Re: [Solved] Burning important data what software and any more advice?

Post by lsemmens »

Why are you worried about quality of sound in your car. You should be more concerned about the other idiots on the road. At home, DIFFERENT STORY!
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Re: [Solved] Burning important data what software and any more advice?

Post by totally lost »

lsemmens wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:31 am
Why are you worried about quality of sound in your car. You should be more concerned about the other idiots on the road. At home, DIFFERENT STORY!
Home is for eating and sleeping. I don't live in some big city. Many roads i can go 20 miles only seeing maybe 2 cars. Not a big deal. Not to mention my service truck i actually put a system in weighs more then most other vehicles on the road. Ehh let them hit me. Not like you can swerve 13,000lbs quickly anyways. Then when you hook on a gooseneck trailer I can hit 30.000lbs easy. Good luck swerving that around quickly. You be a idiot in front of that you are screwed. Next might be a system in my class 8 truck. It had one before the sub box is still in it. It ends up weighing 107,000lbs at times. Again not something you just swerve around avoiding idiots. You may end up hitting someone who was not a idiot doing that. Playing with such a large truck pretty much ends the life of any car driver. If someone is going to get hurt or die i am going to avoid it being some innocent bystander. While nether situation is good the idiot should be the one getting it not someone who was doing nothing wrong.

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Re: [Solved] Burning important data what software and any more advice?

Post by lsemmens »

I, too have driven heavy vehicles for a living. Regardless of the manoeuvrability of toy trucks or Road Trains, you still have to be aware of the idiots around you, not to mention suicidal wildlife. Even Brahman Bulls can make a mess of a road train if they happen to meet.
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Re: [Solved] Burning important data what software and any more advice?

Post by totally lost »

lsemmens wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:04 am
I, too have driven heavy vehicles for a living. Regardless of the manoeuvrability of toy trucks or Road Trains, you still have to be aware of the idiots around you, not to mention suicidal wildlife. Even Brahman Bulls can make a mess of a road train if they happen to meet.
Thats for sure haha I had a poor deer get splattered once under a pickup. Cross member hooked it and just pulled it apart. Music don't distract me. I think its funny people turn down the radio to see better haha

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