Zoom and security of files

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Colson P
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Re: Zoom and security of files

Post by Colson P »

Moem wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:54 pm
MoreLinux wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:05 am
The other possible alternatives are not better in their usability, data grabbing and security.
That's quite a statement. Care to back it up?
Google Hangouts - https://support.google.com/hangouts/thr ... 2564?hl=en
Skype - https://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-lis ... port-says/
Facebook Messenger - I think their recent scandal is self-explanatory: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... e-facebook

Zoom is obviously very, VERY insecure, and the mainstream alternatives are better but also aren't very secure. One thing we do have to realize is nothing can be perfect - there will always be security vulnerabilities no matter what internet service you use. What's important is the steps companies take to reduce these vulnerabilities as much as they can. Ex: encrypting their video conferences end-to-end (better than Zoom is doing :lol: ).

One thing I HATE about Zoom is how meeting hosts can spy on you to see if you're paying attention: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qjdn ... -attention

Also just found this, looks like I need to uninstall or disable Zoom on my Iphone: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/k7e5 ... ok-account

There are some better less-known options that are out there, take WhatsApp and its "state-of-the-art" encryption for example.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/m7qw ... g-software
[EDIT] Whoops, WhatsApp is owned by Facebook too... :?
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Moem
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Re: Zoom and security of files

Post by Moem »

Colson P wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:44 pm
Zoom is obviously very, VERY insecure, and the mainstream alternatives are better but also aren't very secure.
Okay, thanks for the above info. Any thoughts on Jitsi? I hear that it's pretty good, with regards to security. If it's not mainstream, maybe it needs to become so.
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MoreLinux
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Re: Zoom and security of files

Post by MoreLinux »

ZakGordon wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:15 pm
But still........

'Archers fan event invaded by **** and pornography':

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-52243209

They were using Zoom.
They made the mistake, not Zoom.
BBC website wrote:'Teachable moment'
Brown said the mistake they made was to put a link to the meeting all over social media, meaning anyone who saw it could join in.

"It was a teachable moment - as our American cousins would say," he said.

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MoreLinux
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Re: Zoom and security of files

Post by MoreLinux »

Moem wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:54 pm
MoreLinux wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:05 am
The other possible alternatives are not better in their usability, data grabbing and security.
That's quite a statement. Care to back it up?
Here are some good write-ups on many message and video conference tools.
- https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-secur ... ferencing/
- https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... ternatives
- https://www.avg.com/en/signal/secure-message-apps

Almost all have one or the other security problems. Several have not the end-to-end encryption as we think they should have, or a flawed or outdated encryption technology, or the end-to-end encryption isn’t default activated. This means many users use it unprotected. Some have un-encrypted backups or even worse the backup key is controlled by the vendor.

Also everyone is giving lists of Zoom alternatives, example: https://siliconcanals.com/news/zoom-alt ... o-calling/
Did they check these alternatives on security?

my two cents, in a few weeks is Zoom the most secure video conferencing app in the world.

Petermint
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Re: Zoom and security of files

Post by Petermint »

Has anyone used Jitsi or Jami for a large meeting? 10 or more people?

Red Squirrel
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Re: Zoom and security of files

Post by Red Squirrel »

I wanted to convince my family to use Jitsi but "it's too much trouble let's just use Zoom". That seems to be the trend most of the time with this sort of stuff.

So gave in and installed that spyware on my phone. Is there a way in Android to disable an app completely? who knows what it could be doing in the background. I don't want to delete and install it each time.

Ideally going to setup a Raspberry Pi or something with a web cam to see if I can have it run off that on a separate vlan.

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Colson P
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Re: Zoom and security of files

Post by Colson P »

Red Squirrel wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:46 pm
I wanted to convince my family to use Jitsi but "it's too much trouble let's just use Zoom". That seems to be the trend most of the time with this sort of stuff.

So gave in and installed that spyware on my phone. Is there a way in Android to disable an app completely? who knows what it could be doing in the background. I don't want to delete and install it each time.

Ideally going to setup a Raspberry Pi or something with a web cam to see if I can have it run off that on a separate vlan.
Raspberry Pis will work with a USB webcam, although some configuration is needed:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... e/webcams/
Zoom will need to be run from the browser on your pi (which is probably best anyway.)
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... p?t=254367
Red Squirrel wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:46 pm
So gave in and installed that spyware on my phone. Is there a way in Android to disable an app completely? who knows what it could be doing in the background. I don't want to delete and install it each time.
https://explorehowto.com/disable-androi ... data-loss/
Petermint wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:43 pm
Has anyone used Jitsi or Jami for a large meeting? 10 or more people?
https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/commen ... _not_e2ee/
Jitsi isn't end-to-end encrypted, so its main advantage over Zoom in the privacy aspect is that nobody knows about it (similar to how few people use Linux, so it doesn't have many major security threats like Windows does :) )
Linux in a nutshell: xkcd https://xkcd.com/619/

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Moem
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Re: Zoom and security of files

Post by Moem »

Petermint wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:43 pm
Has anyone used Jitsi or Jami for a large meeting? 10 or more people?
Jitsi, and it worked well.
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MoreLinux
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Re: Zoom and security of files

Post by MoreLinux »

Moem wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:23 am
Petermint wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:43 pm
Has anyone used Jitsi or Jami for a large meeting? 10 or more people?
Jitsi, and it worked well.
I just tested Jitsi, and my opinion is different.

Here some comparison between Zoom and Jitsi.

= First look and feel on usability: I was never impressed by Zoom's usability, but now I have to tested Jitsi, I must say Zoom beats Jitsi.
= The Browser experience: On an iPad using Chrome on the Jitsi interface is very unresponsive, Zoom web interface is very responsive on all OS'es and browsers.
= Desktop app on Linux, Mac, Windows: Zoom yes, Jitsi, Yes.
= Bandwidth usage: with only two devices in the Jitsi meeting it already started to complain about the bandwidth not being optimal. With the same devices in a Zoom meeting using HD webcams the bandwidth is no problem.
= Breakout rooms: Zoom has them, as far I can find Jitsi doesn't. I need them as I use Zoom for my work, without Jitsi is a no-go zone.
= Browser support: Jitsi complained that my Safari wasn't gonna give me the best experience, so on my tablet I could switch to Chrome or download the app. On my iPhone I had Chrome installed, but was forced to download and install the app. Zoom supports all mayor browser.
= Screen share: On my three monitor setup, in Zoom I can share any window or a separate monitor screen. In Jitsi, I could share windows, and only my three monitor wide full screen image.
= Separate video streams from view/presentation screen: In Zoom, I can do a dual monitor setup with the video gallery in a separate window so I free up my presentation screen. On the second screen I can keep an eye on my participants and how they react to my presentation.
= Virtual background: Zoom can work with green screen and virtual background don on modern CPU's. Jitsi has only a Beta blur screen that is not usefull.
= Meeting organizer has full control: Zoom - Yes, Jitsi - No, the all users are moderators is a joke when using it in professional work envirionment.
= End to End encryption: Zoom, Yes, but only between client and Zoom server. All data channeled thru the Zoom servers isn't. Jitsi, Yes, only in a 1 on 1 meeting, as soon as you setup a multiple participant meeting it's like Zoom.
Jitsi website wrote:In the case of multiparty meetings all audio and video traffic is still encrypted on the network (again, using DTLS-SRTP). Packets are decrypted while traversing Jitsi Videobridge; however they are never stored to any persistent storage and only live in memory while being routed to other participants in the meeting.
So all in all, Jitsi is as insecure a Zoom and has only a sub-set of the features I need during my work.

Red Squirrel
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Re: Zoom and security of files

Post by Red Squirrel »

Colson P wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:10 pm
Red Squirrel wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:46 pm
I wanted to convince my family to use Jitsi but "it's too much trouble let's just use Zoom". That seems to be the trend most of the time with this sort of stuff.

So gave in and installed that spyware on my phone. Is there a way in Android to disable an app completely? who knows what it could be doing in the background. I don't want to delete and install it each time.

Ideally going to setup a Raspberry Pi or something with a web cam to see if I can have it run off that on a separate vlan.
Raspberry Pis will work with a USB webcam, although some configuration is needed:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... e/webcams/
Zoom will need to be run from the browser on your pi (which is probably best anyway.)
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... p?t=254367
Red Squirrel wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:46 pm
So gave in and installed that spyware on my phone. Is there a way in Android to disable an app completely? who knows what it could be doing in the background. I don't want to delete and install it each time.
https://explorehowto.com/disable-androi ... data-loss/
Petermint wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:43 pm
Has anyone used Jitsi or Jami for a large meeting? 10 or more people?
https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/commen ... _not_e2ee/
Jitsi isn't end-to-end encrypted, so its main advantage over Zoom in the privacy aspect is that nobody knows about it (similar to how few people use Linux, so it doesn't have many major security threats like Windows does :) )

Yeah on the Pi I would use in browser.

For the apps I don't get the disable option. I only get force stop and uninstall. I did force stop though. If it's not running in the background then technically it can't spy on me right?

As for Jitsi and encryption at least with Jitsi it's not Chinese based and you can also run your own server so if you do that even if it's not encrypted the entire path is over a network you trust, and you can also trust the app itself to not be loading spyware into your machine like Zoom does.

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Colson P
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Re: Zoom and security of files

Post by Colson P »

Now Singapore has banned Zoom from its classrooms, the US pentagon is restricting its usage, and the US senate is being asked to not use it.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... on-screens
https://www.cnet.com/news/zoom-every-se ... -chat-app/

To make matters worse,
Cybersecurity intelligence firm Cyble discovered that over 500,000 Zoom accounts are being sold on the dark web and hacker forums,
Linux in a nutshell: xkcd https://xkcd.com/619/

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