Want MS US International keyboard back

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fpa
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Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by fpa »

Hi, how do I get my Mint configured for a US English International keyboard like the old MS International (Microsoft International) keyboard?

I want my linux box to type like my work Win 10 PC does. It used to until a few years ago when the current keyboard schemes were adapted. In special, I need to know how to configure or reconfigure what happens with the deadkeys.

Some are good, some are not.

I like that ' + e results in é.
I like that ' + a results in á.
I want ' + c to result in ç and not in ć.
I want ' + t to result in 't and not in nothing.
I want ' + s to result in 's and not in ś.
I want ' + m to result in 'm and not in ḿ.

I'm using English (US, intl., with dead keys).

I couldn't find how to reconfigure even tinkering with the usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols files. Maybe I'm getting thick over the years.
Although I've posted in the Newbie forum Iḿ not really a newbie, have more than two decades of linux experience, but didn know where in the forum to fit the question.

Thank you, fpa

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Pierre
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by Pierre »

how many keys are on your keyboard ?

which version of the LinuxMint system are you using ?.
Image
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] - when your problem is solved!
and DO LOOK at those Unanswered Topics - - you may be able to answer some!.

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GS3
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by GS3 »

fpa wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:57 pm
Hi, how do I get my Mint configured for a US English International keyboard like the old MS International (Microsoft International) keyboard?
I have asked the same question several times but never got any solutions. viewtopic.php?f=90&t=317434
I have had a lot of trouble with keyboards over the years. Plenty of errors and things not working right. I never really got solutions other than workarounds and learning to live with problems.
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pbear
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by pbear »

fpa wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:57 pm
I want my linux box to type like my work Win 10 PC does.
Expecting Linux to work like Windows is usually a prescription for disappointment.

None of the developers consider that the objective.

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GS3
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by GS3 »

pbear wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 2:57 pm
Expecting Linux to work like Windows is usually a prescription for disappointment.

None of the developers consider that the objective.
I understand the point but in some way I think offering the choice would facilitate the transition for many people. In fact, it is already being done with the GUI, folders, files, etc. There is no point in refusing something just because it was invented elsewhere. In fact, much of the success of Windows can be attributed to MS copying what others had already found was successful.

Many of us are already familiar and accustomed to the EN-US-Intl keyboard use and it would facilitate it a lot for us. I suppose Linux could just decide to use a totally different keyboard instead of Qwerty but there would be no point other than to prove it is different. Why provide foreign keyboard support at all? Linux could just demand users learn English. Or Finnish as the case may be.

The fact is that the use of EN-US-Intl is widespread. Linux already does Samba and other things to communicate and adapt. I think offering EN-US-Intl keyboard would be (1) extremely easy for someone with the right knowledge and (2) very helpful for those of us who are transitioning.

I have both my Windows and Linux computers side by side but I still do the great majority of my typing in Windows precisely because I hate having to go back and correct all the typos.
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pbear
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by pbear »

Is the problem that the keyboard isn't supported or that the Linux implementation requires different keystrokes to achieve the same output?

ETA: Did a bit of surfing to see what this is about. This was the best explanation I found. Been like this since 2005, apparently. Not likely to change soon. Also a somewhat enlightening askubuntu conversation (less penetrating but more recent).

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kyphi
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by kyphi »

I could have sworn that the keyboard layout you want is available in System Settings, Hardware, Keyboard, Layouts. Click on the plus sign to see a few hundred keyboard layouts and add the one you want to your list.

For my own needs I use the Compose Key to create è, é, ô, ç and so on but I am puzzled by apostrophes preceding letters. Would someone please enlighten me as to their usefulness.
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GS3
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by GS3 »

What don't you understand?
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kyphi
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by kyphi »

I don't understand what one would use apostrophes before a letter for. The letters as cited by the OP are "t, s, m" (the best I can do is 't, 's, 'm). What is their purpose? I cannot see any difficulty in presenting these.
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GS3
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by GS3 »

kyphi wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 2:25 am
I don't understand what one would use apostrophes before a letter for. The letters as cited by the OP are "t, s, m" (the best I can do is 't, 's, 'm). What is their purpose? I cannot see any difficulty in presenting these.
I'm puzzled by your puzzlement and how come you don't see it. I think it's easy to see. My Windows computer's keyboard supports it and I would like it if Linux did too.
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erikjan
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by erikjan »

@fpa
Dear fpa,

Using the standard keyboard US International with dead keys:

I like that ' + e results in é. use: ' + e
I like that ' + a results in á. use: ' + a
I want ' + c to result in ç and not in ć. use: altgr + ,
I want ' + t to result in 't and not in nothing. use: ' + ' + t
I want ' + s to result in 's and not in ś. use: ' + ' + s
I want ' + m to result in 'm and not in ḿ. use: ' + ' + m

Also, have look at the keyboard map. It shows you the use of the alt-key on the right side of the space bar:

https://dry.sailingissues.com/us-intern ... ayout.html.

Greetings

Erik Jan

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GS3
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by GS3 »

erikjan wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 6:21 am
I want ' + c to result in ç and not in ć. use: altgr + ,
I want ' + t to result in 't and not in nothing. use: ' + ' + t
I want ' + s to result in 's and not in ś. use: ' + ' + s
I want ' + m to result in 'm and not in ḿ. use: ' + ' + m
Well... for 't I hit <', space, t> and hitting <',',t> is not much of an improvement but I think the main issue here is not the particular combination of keys but the fact that it is different in Linux than in Windows and that slows you down a lot.

All the computers I use are in English and when I need to use a computer in another language I am slowed down a lot even though all the same commands are there but whereas in English I hit CTRL-S to save without even thinking, in another language I have to stop and think. Same thing with typing those international characters. If I have to stop to think then I would rather just type in Windows where I can type without thinking. Imagine having to type with a different keyboard layout. Same thing. AZERTY and DVORAK keyboards might be faster if you are used to them but for someone used to QWERTY they are much slower.
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magnus7
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by magnus7 »

fpa wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:57 pm
I want ' + c to result in ç and not in ć.
I want ' + t to result in 't and not in nothing.
I want ' + s to result in 's and not in ś.
I want ' + m to result in 'm and not in ḿ.
Turn on XIM:
Menu > Input method > Input method framework > XIM

Create a hidden file named .XCompose in your home directory (~/.XCompose), which contains:

Code: Select all

include "%L"
<dead_acute> <C> : "Ç"
<dead_acute> <c> : "ç"
<dead_acute> <T> : "'T"
<dead_acute> <t> : "'t"
<dead_acute> <S> : "'S"
<dead_acute> <s> : "'s"
<dead_acute> <M> : "'M"
<dead_acute> <m> : "'m"
Restart the computer.

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GS3
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by GS3 »

magnus7 wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 9:22 am
Create a hidden file named .XCompose in your home directory (~/.XCompose), which contains:

Code: Select all

include "%L"
<dead_acute> <C> : "Ç"
<dead_acute> <c> : "ç"
<dead_acute> <T> : "'T"
<dead_acute> <t> : "'t"
<dead_acute> <S> : "'S"
<dead_acute> <s> : "'s"
<dead_acute> <M> : "'M"
<dead_acute> <m> : "'m"
Restart the computer.
I tried that and it seems to work for C but not for t, s or m. Am I doing something wrong?
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pbear
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by pbear »

kyphi wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 2:25 am
I don't understand what one would use apostrophes before a letter for.
The apostrophe is a common character, used for possessives and contractions. That's pretty obvious, I should think.

So, one needs a way to use the dead keys as characters. One of the issues is that Windows and Linux do that differently.

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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by erikjan »

@GS3 at Tue May 05, 2020 1:54 pm

Dear GS3,

you are quite right, of course. In order to type fast and easily I have accustomed myself to type on a US keyboard with eurkey keyboard mapping. This keyboard map is far more consistent than US International with dead keys. On the European keyboard dead keys are accessed via the altgr-key, but my fingers know now where to find the characters I need and I do not need these any more.

On my Linux Mint computer eurkey is not on the list of keyboard maps, although it is it is part of Linux Mint and to be found in:

/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/eu .

It can be installed via:

Code: Select all

setxkbmap eu
I prefer to use eurkey.deb from:

https://eurkey.steffen.bruentjen.eu/download.html

besides the Greek and Hebrew keyboards.

Greetings

Erik Jan

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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by magnus7 »

GS3 wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 9:43 am
I tried that and it seems to work for C but not for t, s or m. Am I doing something wrong?
Your LM version may be a problem. It works in LM 19.3 with all desktops.

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GS3
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by GS3 »

magnus7 wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 11:19 am
GS3 wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 9:43 am
I tried that and it seems to work for C but not for t, s or m. Am I doing something wrong?
Your LM version may be a problem. It works in LM 19.3 with all desktops.
I am using 19.3 on this computer. (my sig refers to my other computers.)
I will run some tests and see if I can gather any info.
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kyphi
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Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by kyphi »

pbear wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 10:25 am
The apostrophe is a common character, used for possessives and contractions. That's pretty obvious, I should think.
Quite correct and there is no problem with that. My query was about a difficulty in creating characters with a diacritical mark as posted by the OP (who seems to have had his post taken over).

Using the Compose Key I have no difficulty in typing á, é, è, ê, ö, ç, ß, °, or any other "special" letter. Using an apostrophe for possessives and contractions also does not present any difficulty, just type the apostrophe followed by the letter to get 't, 's, 'm.

All that on a 101/105 keyboard.
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fpa
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[SOLVED] Re: Want MS US International keyboard back

Post by fpa »

magnus7 wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 9:22 am
fpa wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:57 pm
I want ' + c to result in ç and not in ć.
I want ' + t to result in 't and not in nothing.
I want ' + s to result in 's and not in ś.
I want ' + m to result in 'm and not in ḿ.
Turn on XIM:
Menu > Input method > Input method framework > XIM

Create a hidden file named .XCompose in your home directory (~/.XCompose), which contains:

Code: Select all

include "%L"
<dead_acute> <C> : "Ç"
<dead_acute> <c> : "ç"
<dead_acute> <T> : "'T"
<dead_acute> <t> : "'t"
<dead_acute> <S> : "'S"
<dead_acute> <s> : "'s"
<dead_acute> <M> : "'M"
<dead_acute> <m> : "'m"
Restart the computer.
YES! THANK YOU @magnus7!!! Worked beautifully! :)

This is exactly what I was needing. I wish I had found documentation on XIM & XCompose before posting, super thank you for these pointers!!

@pbear, with all due respect, I think you don't fully get what linux is about. Linux is Unix, which means you get options, the ability to configure things, to setup it up to work the way you want. Sure, it may be difficult, but it can be rewarding. And if a person wants one choice dictated on them, [in theory] easy, they should go IOS Apple (which I'm not a fan of BTW). And of course, not everything is configurable in linux, but ha, I was confident that this had to be. :wink:

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