Can I still use 17.3?

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Dark Owl
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by Dark Owl »

DAMIEN1307 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:24 pm
I have personally seen enough in real time bootups myself...these tweaks DO work...i only gave you this in the belief that this be of some help... help to you or others...I wont make this mistake again...I have answered less and less here in the forums and will now decide to add even less and allow others to to have their say...I know longer give 2 shites...good luck to you all...DAMIEN
That seems an extreme reaction to a genuine enquiry. Yes, somebody presented an opposing opinion, but that is the point of forums - truth is almost invariably a middle line, which is attained by an aggregation of opinions.

However, I am also frustrated that some of my opinions have been censored on this forum - I appear to have been denied access to one section for no obvious reason, and reporting problems with the LM20 beta on my hardware in the relevant thread (when everyone else is saying how marvellous it is) seems to be not permitted.

I have left a car forum (because it is populated by oiks), but in general one has to develop a reasonably thick skin and proceed in good faith. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if it is different from yours (or mine), and unless the expression of that opinion contains objectional content I do not expect opinions to be suppressed. It is up to the reader to assess the sum of opinion for themselves.
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Moem
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by Moem »

Dark Owl wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:35 am
I appear to have been denied access to one section for no obvious reason
I don't know about that. Maybe you could ask the admins. Mods do not have a tool to do that.
Dark Owl wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:35 am
and reporting problems with the LM20 beta on my hardware in the relevant thread (when everyone else is saying how marvellous it is) seems to be not permitted.
Asking support questions on an announcement thread is not permitted, and betas are by definition unsupported. It's hard to make the distinction between 'reporting problems' and asking for help to resolve a problem.

I can see how it can seem like 'reporting problems' is constructive, and I appreciate that you probably mean it to be, but the announcement part of the forum is not where bug reports are filed and processed. So it's not really 'reporting' anything if you post about your problems there.

If you want to talk about what is and isn't working for you in the current beta, go ahead and do that here.
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by Shadow in Fire »

GNU/Linux Mint 18.3 (with Xfce) was just perfect in every single way, and I used that version of the distro the longest without an upgrade (things didn't feel right anymore). It's just a shame that support ends next year, and very few updates via the official repositories will remain (aside from the PPAs, which alone are risky and not recommended).

Well, if that's how it's going to be, I'm just going to pack it up and use Refracta, a spin of Devuan. I just did a fresh install alongside, and it's running every bit as good, if not better than my GNU/Linux Mint. I can't wait to put the finishing touches and make it THE daily driver for me. Xfce is the only DE that I can "inappropriate term" with, because I could never get into the sluggishness and bloat from alternatives such as Cinnamon, MATE, or KDE Plasma. LXDE is tolerable on old machines, but way too primitive to get things done. Xfce destroys them all, AND it runs super smooth on the aforementioned old machines.
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Dark Owl
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by Dark Owl »

Moem wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:13 am
I can see how it can seem like 'reporting problems' is constructive, and I appreciate that you probably mean it to be, but the announcement part of the forum is not where bug reports are filed and processed. So it's not really 'reporting' anything if you post about your problems there.
...in which case announcements should be locked treads and people not allowed to post things like "isn't this wonderful" either. If no negative posts are permitted, the representation is biased.
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rene
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by rene »

DAMIEN1307 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:24 pm
how for example disabling NetworkManager-wait-online tends to do not a thing in real time,
I have personally seen enough in real time bootups myself...these tweaks DO work...
No you have not and no they do not. Well, as to that quoted one: you disabling e.g. Postfix startup helps a bit, just begs the question why you'd install it in the first place if you don't want it. What you have seen is the numbers reported by systemd-analyze change but that doesn't in fact mean anything in wall-clock time; gm10 expressed it most clearly in the in that reply linked thread: viewtopic.php?t=282437. If you were to see an actual difference from it you've just introduced a potential race into your bootup, a bug, but even that effect will not have occurred in reality.

Fairly sure you will not take my word for it this time either. Homeopathy has survived for hundreds of years as well so I'm not holding my breath as to random other placebo's :-)
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by rene »

Dark Owl wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:58 am
...in which case announcements should be locked treads and people not allowed to post things like "isn't this wonderful" either.
I expect that "I don't like this" posts would not be moderated either. It's more about chatty vs. non-chatty responses --- which in the sense of you now being referred to the "Chat about Linux Mint" forum seems a bit unfortunate but the issue's still that Mint wants centralised bug-reporting, and really only on the web as comments on the announcements on the blog post, i.e., https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3928, at least and explicitly so for beta's.

Now, don't get me wrong, I find that to be a bug in the Linux Mint release process, interspersing serious feedback with lots of senseless "wee, you're so great, may I please have your baby" internet commentary but when you are someone that receives a lot of email/feedback you do recognize the necessity for keeping things centralised so as to not within weeks loose your mind. As far as I'm concerned said centralisation would've been much better here or on GitHub, much better not as obscure web-log commentary, but well, so be it. For me it means I don't bother testing and/or supplying serious feedback. So be it, again. We all have our non-debatable communication-channel preferences :)
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

@rene,
No you have not and no they do not.
I disabled the "NetworkManager-wait-online.service" only as a last resort on my SSD equipped, 8 gig ram, Peppermint 9 respin system which is quite close to LM XFCE, because of 28 second startup timed via stop watch...it is now down to 5 to 6 seconds via stopwatch with the "NetworkManager-wait-online.service" now disabled.

It now closely matches the report of systemd-analyze.
damien@damien ~ $ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 1.741s (kernel) + 2.564s (userspace) = 4.305s
graphical.target reached after 2.560s in userspace
damien@damien ~ $
Also specs below from critcal-chain and "blame as well.
damien@damien ~ $ systemd-analyze critical-chain
The time after the unit is active or started is printed after the "@" character.
The time the unit takes to start is printed after the "+" character.

graphical.target @2.560s
└─lightdm.service @2.447s +112ms
└─systemd-user-sessions.service @2.436s +6ms
└─network.target @2.434s
└─NetworkManager.service @2.170s +263ms
└─dbus.service @2.162s
└─basic.target @2.152s
└─sockets.target @2.152s
└─cups.socket @2.152s
└─sysinit.target @2.151s
└─apparmor.service @263ms +1.887s
└─local-fs.target @262ms
└─local-fs-pre.target @262ms
└─keyboard-setup.service @167ms +94ms
└─systemd-journald.socket @166ms
└─system.slice @166ms
└─-.slice @150ms
damien@damien ~ $
damien@damien ~ $ systemd-analyze blame
1.887s apparmor.service
613ms dev-sda1.device
467ms ufw.service
427ms systemd-journal-flush.service
263ms NetworkManager.service
242ms systemd-logind.service
222ms mintsystem.service
216ms udisks2.service
155ms networkd-dispatcher.service
118ms run-rpc_pipefs.mount
114ms systemd-udevd.service
113ms systemd-resolved.service
112ms lightdm.service
94ms keyboard-setup.service
86ms upower.service
82ms accounts-daemon.service
75ms systemd-journald.service
70ms swapfile.swap
69ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
64ms systemd-modules-load.service
58ms rpcbind.service
54ms gpu-manager.service
51ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
50ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service
47ms systemd-sysctl.service
46ms grub-common.service
30ms user@1000.service
28ms lm-sensors.service
25ms plymouth-start.service
25ms plymouth-read-write.service
24ms systemd-random-seed.service
19ms hddtemp.service
19ms wpa_supplicant.service
18ms console-setup.service
18ms nfs-config.service
18ms rsyslog.service
17ms kmod-static-nodes.service
14ms ntp.service
13ms kerneloops.service
13ms dev-mqueue.mount
12ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
12ms systemd-remount-fs.service
11ms dev-hugepages.mount
11ms polkit.service
11ms systemd-update-utmp.service
10ms ureadahead-stop.service
8ms sys-fs-fuse-connections.mount
8ms alsa-restore.service
7ms sys-kernel-config.mount
6ms systemd-user-sessions.service
3ms systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
2ms setvtrgb.service
lines 28-52/52 (END)
As per usual, Im sure that you will certainly still try to find fault in all of this as you usually do, but lets face it, ive been using this and doing this for years, not only for myself, but also for over 100 others here in my little city with zero bad effects reported, as i still maintain systems for them whenever needed which is very, very rare...Enough Said...DAMIEN
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rene
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by rene »

DAMIEN1307 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:46 am
Enough Said..
Quite, and especially since what you said was nonsense again. If you'd know what NetworkManager-wait-online.service is/does you'd at the same time know such to inevitably be the case. As you therefore said, enough said. More than enough.
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by Vilsen »

I'm really surprised not to say: amazed; Previously, I have
received information about the importance of having separate / root / home
partitions so as not to lose what you have already
installed in the previous version when switching to a later version.

If I understood what the answers here meant, then this no longer applies ???

What should I do then to, on the one hand, "everyone" states
that you should not stay with old versions because this
is a security risk but to once again put a lot of effort
into re-installing AND setting up all programs that you u
nder several years of time added and "tailored" to
one's needs seems to be unreasonably complicated.

Someone wrote:


Having a separate / and /home partition works in your favour if you have to do a fresh install. You can select the 'something else' option and choose the partition used for / and tell it to use it for / and reformat it. Point at your /home partition and tell it to use it for /home and NOT reformat it. You keep all your config files and data (but do a backup, just in case). You still have to reinstall all your software :(




I do remember , however that I was told that separate /root /home -PARTITIONS


was the solution to the problem if you wanted to keep what you had already
installed and not have to do everything again from the beginning

Did I read it wrong ?


"Everybody" says: YOU MUST UPGRADE ! You can´t stay with 17.3 or 18.3 ! Then you are a fool !

Why do i use Linux Mint MATE ?? beacuse I like it ! I like the way it works and looks and I have
a possibility to make MY OWN choices regarding looks an d behavior.

I hav since 2006 from crazy Ubuntu gone to the more purposeful and work-friendly
MINT MATE and I use it every day , writing , sacnning, photographic works , film , sound
- everything ! And on a modest computer with and old MOBO and a Intel® Core™ i5-3570K CPU @ 3.40GHz × 4
plus 16 gigabyte RAM and and a SSD of 1TB and some rotating harddrives as well.

Everything is GREAT !

Then : "YOU MUST UPGRADE YOUR SYSTEM " otherwise dangerous things will strike you !

OK; OK ! I WILL ! I MUST ! But how ? I don´t wnat to start all over again and the painstaking process of
writing down on paper all SETTINGS in all the various programs that I use , the settings of colorschemes and other stuff.
all the keyboard shortcuts and so on.

IS THERE REALLY NO POSSIBILITY TO UPGRADE to 19.3 or 20 frpm 18.3


W I T H O U T losing all the work I put in to make my computer usable ??


Really ? Do I have reformat the disk and start all over again ?
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by deepakdeshp »

From 18.3 you can upgrade to 19.0 That's what I did. In fact I have been upgrading from 17 to 18 to 19 to 20 including the point releases like 17.1 etc. Once you upgrade to 19 it is supported till 2023, 20 is supported till 2025. Backup everything before you try the upgrade in case it fails and you need to roll back.
If I have helped you solve a problem, please add [SOLVED] to your first post title, it helps other users looking for help, and keeps the forum clean.
Regards,
Deepak

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Mint 20 Cinnamon AMD Ryzen3500U
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by Vilsen »

BUT: H O W ????

How do I do it ??

I thought I should download an ISO to put on a thumb and then.... ?

Someone said : NO NO , that is not possible !
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by deepakdeshp »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tecmin ... nt-19/amp/
I am not sure if you can upgrade from 18.3 to 20 though. And the instructions above may not work as a newer mintupgrade tool is active now.
If I have helped you solve a problem, please add [SOLVED] to your first post title, it helps other users looking for help, and keeps the forum clean.
Regards,
Deepak

I am using Mint 20 Cinnamon 64 bit with AMD A8/7410 / 8GB
Mint 20 Cinnamon AMD Ryzen3500U
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by Dark Owl »

Vilsen wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:08 am
"Everybody" says: YOU MUST UPGRADE !
Who's everybody? Not me.
Vilsen wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:08 am
Everything is GREAT !
If you like it how it is, keep it how it is. Who cares if it isn't supported? Some day you might find it can't do some new thing you want to do, or isn't compatible with new hardware, but is it worth going through all the hassle of constantly updating and retuning before then?

Only ever change things if you have to, or you have nothing better to do with your time (ie "don't fix what ain't broke"). There are almost always unexpected/unintended consequences which invariably take longer than the time available to sort out.
Vilsen wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:08 am
Then : "YOU MUST UPGRADE YOUR SYSTEM " otherwise dangerous things will strike you !
Not they won't, just take reasonable precautions such as keeping off-line backups and not visiting dubious websites. The worst things that can happen are keeping your email, shopping, and banking credentials saved in a web browser cache or other unencrypted file (from where they can be harvested), or ransomware (planted software systematically "encrypts" your data and offers to decrypt it on payment of a ransom - which might be an empty promise anyway). The latter is immaterial if you have backups, and the former can be defended against by not letting the browser auto-login to shopping sites etc.

Most threats are directed at Windows users anyway, because that's a much bigger pool of potential victims.
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by JoeFootball »

Vilsen wrote: IS THERE REALLY NO POSSIBILITY TO UPGRADE to 19.3 or 20 frpm 18.3

W I T H O U T losing all the work I put in to make my computer usable ??

Really ? Do I have reformat the disk and start all over again ?
Vilsen wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:14 am
BUT: H O W ????

How do I do it ??
Upgrade Instructions: viewtopic.php?f=143&t=235992

EDIT: And see this thread (which you started, incidentally).
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by ingeva »

First: I never upgrade, I re-install. Guess I have that from Windows, with which the longer you kept a system, the slower it became and the more trouble you got. Before you re-install, make a backup of your /home directory, making sure you keep all those important directories and files whose name start with a decimal point ("hidden"). A smart way of making the backup is by compressing the directory into one file that you can decompress afterwards.
I recommend highly that if you don't have a separate partition for /home, make one. This means that you may have to change other partitions, so make sure you have backup. If you have Windows on the computer as well you may have to make some special considerations, but lucky me I haven't used Windows for several years, so I don't know.
Of course, you may keep an old version if it works well. If not, you may consider changing to Mint 19.3 which is mature and stable, or 20.04 which has many improvements, but does not yet have 100% compatibility with some packages.
Mint rules! (20.1 MATE) Cinnamon go home! :)
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by Vilsen »

EDIT: And see this thread (which you started, incidentally).

What is there to see ???
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by JoeFootball »

Vilsen wrote: What is there to see ???
Basically the same answers that you're being provided here, such as Upgrade Instructions, and details of what is supported and what's not.
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by cliffcoggin »

Vilsen wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:03 am
EDIT: And see this thread (which you started, incidentally).

What is there to see ???
I note you did not include in your quotation the link that JoeFootball provided, so I'll copy it again.
viewtopic.php?f=143&t=235992
Is the link visible to you? Does it take you to installation instructions?
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by GS3 »

This is the thread that doesn't end,
yes it goes on and on, my friends.
Someone started it not knowing what it was,
and we'll continue posting forever just because...

This is the thread that doesn't end,
yes it goes on and on, my friends.
Someone started it not knowing what it was,
and we'll continue posting forever just because...

This is the thread that doesn't end,
yes it goes on and on, my friends...

(Ad infinitum or until the cows come home, whichever happens first.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U2zJOryHKQ
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Dark Owl
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Re: Can I still use 17.3?

Post by Dark Owl »

From one of the links linked to above (https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/2):
If things are working fine and you're happy with your current system, then you don't need to upgrade.

A new version of Linux Mint is released every 6 months. It usually comes with new features and improvements but there's nothing wrong with sticking with the release you already have. In fact, you could skip many releases and stick with the version that works for you.

Each release receives bug fixes and security updates for about 18 months (or 3 years in the case of "Long Term Support" releases such as Linux Mint 13). The development team is also focused on the latest release. If bug fixes and security updates are important to you, you should regularly upgrade to the latest releases, otherwise there's nothing wrong with keeping things as they are.

As a general rule... unless you need to, or unless you really want to, there's no reason for you to upgrade.
That sums up my own views exactly.
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Previously: LM20β, LM18.2
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