Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

All Gurus once were Newbies
Forum rules
There are no such things as "stupid" questions. However if you think your question is a bit stupid, then this is the right place for you to post it. Please stick to easy to-the-point questions that you feel people can answer fast. For long and complicated questions prefer the other forums within the support section.
Before you post please read how to get help
cecilieaux
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 622
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:43 am
Location: Washington, D.C.

Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by cecilieaux »

There's an unpolished feel to Ulyana that is not common in Linux Mint full releases. I realize it must have been very hard to complete a release in the middle of a pandemic. But there is a feel that software I use was not updated for the new release.

Cherrytree, for example, has no usable update. I may end up installing the Windows version under WINE (but, then, if that's true of everything, why Linux?).

I would like to receive some confirmation that this hunch is not just newbie craziness. I've been using Linux for years, but I'm a "newbie" in the sense that I'm not well-versed technically.

Cecilieaux
Cecilieaux
--
Every time I think I'm past newbiedom something like this happens.
Running Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.0 Ulyana
User avatar
antikythera
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2598
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:52 pm

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by antikythera »

No, it wasn't. The issues you are encountering are caused by the new Ubuntu 20.04 base. Some third party applications like Cherrytree and certain PPA are not ready for use with 20.04. I don't see the COVID-19 pandemic as a reasonable excuse either really as Ubuntu is opensource and developers have ready access to it during all pre-release stages. After the code freeze stage, months before the final release they could have got to work.
Don't take life so seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway!
AMSTRAD CPC6128 - 128KB RAM, 3" Hitachi Floppy Diskette Drive, External Sony Cassette Recorder, Locomotive BASIC 1.1, CTM-644 Monitor
User avatar
JoeFootball
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2903
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:52 pm
Location: /home/usa/mn/minneapolis/joe

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by JoeFootball »

cecilieaux wrote: Cherrytree, for example, has no usable update.
Augmenting antikythera's response that Cherrytree is not in the Ubuntu 20.04 repositories, the Cherrytree website states that their .deb package is not suitable for Ubuntu 20.04.
User avatar
Pjotr
Level 22
Level 22
Posts: 15884
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:18 am
Location: The Netherlands (Holland)
Contact:

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by Pjotr »

antikythera wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:07 am
No, it wasn't. The issues you are encountering are caused by the new Ubuntu 20.04 base. Some third party applications like Cherrytree and certain PPA's are not ready for use with 20.04.
+1

Furthermore, a new Mint series (i.e. an new Ubuntu LTS codebase) always has some "teething problems". That's usual and as expected. None of those should be showstoppers, though. Just the usual minor inconveniences that'll probably be solved one by one in the coming months.
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 20 Ulyana
Keep your Linux Mint healthy: Avoid these 10 fatal mistakes
Twitter: twitter.com/easylinuxtips
All in all, horse sense simply makes sense.
lamar
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:34 am
Location: Maine

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by lamar »

Cherrytree from flatpak works fine and I have also loaded it from the .deb file on two computers and it works fine.
Zero problems with LM 20 on three computers here. It just works for me.
lamar
cecilieaux
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 622
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:43 am
Location: Washington, D.C.

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by cecilieaux »

lamar wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:28 am
Cherrytree from flatpak works fine and I have also loaded it from the .deb file on two computers and it works fine.
Zero problems with LM 20 on three computers here. It just works for me.
Thank you. Installed it. My first flatpak.

Cecilieaux
Cecilieaux
--
Every time I think I'm past newbiedom something like this happens.
Running Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.0 Ulyana
jonau01
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:01 pm

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by jonau01 »

Applications are not ready for Ulyana doest not mean that Ulyana is not ready.

Users are responsible to test their applications (that are not part of the OS) on a new version.
mr_raider
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1889
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:50 am
Location: Montreal, QC

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by mr_raider »

Usually, ubuntu does not allow their LTS users to upgrade to the next LTS release until .1 point release is out. That's usually 4 months after the April release.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FocalFossa/ReleaseSchedule

That should give you an indication of what they think of their own stability!
Image
hydrurga
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 735
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:08 pm

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by hydrurga »

It always takes a wee while for some software developers to catch up after a new LTS Ubuntu version is released. Some software never does, usually because it is no longer maintained or the developer doesn't have the time/energy to rewrite the code to incorporate new requirements (e.g. rewriting the code in Python 3, producing a 64bit version, etc.). I personally haven't seen much difference in the jump from L19.x->L20 from other previous major releases.

I would always recommend that folk, if they are unsure, run a live media of the new operating system and install the software that is important to them to see if it will run ok before upgrading/installing. Less surprises that way. Also, as suggested above, if you're less unwilling to spend the time getting any recalcitrant software to work in the new version, wait until the first point release by which more time more issues will have been resolved.
linux-rox
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by linux-rox »

mr_raider wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:38 pm
Usually, ubuntu does not allow their LTS users to upgrade to the next LTS release until .1 point release is out. That's usually 4 months after the April release.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FocalFossa/ReleaseSchedule

That should give you an indication of what they think of their own stability!
+1. I was going to make a similar comment. Several derivative distros wait for the .1 release also, KDE Neon for example.
User avatar
Kadaitcha Man
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3593
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:17 pm

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

linux-rox wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:55 pm
... Several derivative distros wait for the .1 release also, KDE Neon for example.
Really? Then please explain...

Code: Select all

kman@x570:~$ inxi -Fxz
System:    Kernel: 5.4.0-42-lowlatency x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 9.3.0 
           Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.19.3 Distro: KDE neon 20.04 5.19 base: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS Focal 
Machine:   Type: Desktop System: Gigabyte product: X570 UD v: N/A serial: <filter> 
           Mobo: Gigabyte model: X570 UD v: x.x serial: <filter> UEFI: American Megatrends 
           v: F20 date: 07/07/2020 
CPU:       Topology: 12-Core model: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Zen 
           L2 cache: 6144 KiB 
           flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm 
           bogomips: 182065 
           Speed: 3610 MHz min/max: N/A Core speeds (MHz): 1: 3610 2: 3597 3: 3593 4: 4439 
           5: 3906 6: 4442 7: 4190 8: 4143 9: 3619 10: 3628 11: 4058 12: 4109 13: 3598 14: 3833 
           15: 3593 16: 3986 17: 4028 18: 4333 19: 4174 20: 4007 21: 3934 22: 3652 23: 4021 
           24: 4341 
Screenshot_20200728_120802.jpg

No point releases there.
Coming to a thread near you: Lots of bragging about my AMD 5950X. Currently delayed due to high demand.
It's pronounced kad-eye-cha, not kada-itcha.
User avatar
AZgl1500
Level 14
Level 14
Posts: 5291
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:20 am
Location: Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
Contact:

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by AZgl1500 »

Pjotr wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:17 am
antikythera wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:07 am
No, it wasn't. The issues you are encountering are caused by the new Ubuntu 20.04 base. Some third party applications like Cherrytree and certain PPA's are not ready for use with 20.04.
+1

Furthermore, a new Mint series (i.e. an new Ubuntu LTS codebase) always has some "teething problems". That's usual and as expected. None of those should be showstoppers, though. Just the usual minor inconveniences that'll probably be solved one by one in the coming months.
It is those "teething problems" that cause me to avoid all of the "beta releases", e.g. anything before x.3 in any release.

this does not hamper me at all, I still get the same number of "good years" from release to release as anyone else. I just don't have to mess with a desktop that is not "cooked in solid".

LM20 to me, just does not "feel right" and it is hard to quantify that feeling...
things just aren't where they should be, I miss all of my current desktop features, and that is a killer for me.
the new Panel is a farse IMO, it does not work "correctly" in that the apps that are running do NOT show up distinctly away from the icon that brought them up. Like I had in 18.3 and now in 19.3

panel.png


. but, the same thing can be said for LM19 when it was released, I refused to even look at it until 19.3 was released....
I very happily enjoyed my 18.3 Cinnamon and let the world go by...

that 18.3 Cinnamon is still turned on, a 'cron job' keeps it updated whether I lift the lid, or don't.
one day, the LTS will expire, and it will be a Solid backup to use for any purpose that it is needed for.
Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon
linux-rox
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by linux-rox »

Kadaitcha Man wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:04 pm
Really? Then please explain...
Interesting. I looked shortly after Ubuntu 20.04's release and saw this: https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=3 ... 58#p431506.
OTOH, not really a fan of KDE, so not something I've been following with bated breath ever since.
User avatar
Kadaitcha Man
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3593
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:17 pm

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

linux-rox wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:10 pm
OTOH, not really a fan of KDE, so not something I've been following with bated breath ever since.
That's not exactly the point, is it?
Coming to a thread near you: Lots of bragging about my AMD 5950X. Currently delayed due to high demand.
It's pronounced kad-eye-cha, not kada-itcha.
Petermint
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1253
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by Petermint »

The answer depends on the software you use. For me, LM 20 brought a usable recent release for several major software lines and removed the need for eight PPAs. There was only one application still needing a later release and that had an Appimage.

I did a clean install as LM, Ubuntu, and several other Linux distributions have needed clean installs for major releases. Most of the problem reports appear to be updates instead of clean installs. That is difficult when you have added repositories and PPAs. You have to remove all the add-ons then update, then add everything back to update the individual applications. I do not see how distribution developers could handle the 42 billion possible combinations of extra repositories and PPAs.
User avatar
Kadaitcha Man
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3593
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:17 pm

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

cecilieaux wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:57 am
Subject: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?
The same question could be asked of Leonardo Da Vinci and his painting of Mona Lisa. Programming is an art form, and it's always difficult for an artist to know when something is 'finished'. Delivery deadlines are a scourge to artists but we have them and they must be met. It's a fine line to be trod. A little understanding goes a very long way.
Coming to a thread near you: Lots of bragging about my AMD 5950X. Currently delayed due to high demand.
It's pronounced kad-eye-cha, not kada-itcha.
User avatar
smurphos
Level 17
Level 17
Posts: 7332
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:18 am
Location: Britisher
Contact:

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by smurphos »

AZgl1500 wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:22 pm
this does not hamper me at all, I still get the same number of "good years" from release to release as anyone else.
Technically you don't - by the time you settle on a .3 point release the underlying software base is already 20 months old, and upstream focus is already on the next LTS so chances of ongoing maintenance of some of that old package-base (basically anything in the Universe repo) is minimal.
Last edited by smurphos on Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
For custom Nemo actions, useful scripts for the Cinnamon desktop, and Cinnamox themes visit my Github pages.
Petermint
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1253
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by Petermint »

At the end of LM 19.3, I had at lease one additional repo and some PPAs. Some of those changes conflicted with the packages used in LM 19.3. For some applications, I had to switch to Appimages to get versions compatible the old OS. When you need the current version of an application and there is no Appimage, you need the current version of the OS.

There are alternatives to Appimage. I tested them when available. The alternatives failed for the applications I use.

Plus, when I had only 4 GB, loading everything up as an appflatsnapimage used too much memory.
Buffy
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:46 pm
Location: US
Contact:

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by Buffy »

Been super happy with 20.0; working real nice. :)
--
MSI X99A SLI Krait Edition, i7-5820K (o/c to 3.8 GHz), 64 MB Corsair Vengeance LPX (2400 MHz) DDR4 DRAM, Samsung 860 Pro SSD (1TB), WD Black HD (5TB), EVGA GTX 1070 FE (displays), EVGA RTX 2080 Ti SC Ultra Gaming (rendering), Linux Mint 20.0 Cinnamon
mr_raider
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1889
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:50 am
Location: Montreal, QC

Re: Was Ulyana released before it was ready?

Post by mr_raider »

Kadaitcha Man wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:04 pm
linux-rox wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:55 pm
... Several derivative distros wait for the .1 release also, KDE Neon for example.
Really? Then please explain...

Code: Select all

kman@x570:~$ inxi -Fxz
System:    Kernel: 5.4.0-42-lowlatency x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 9.3.0 
           Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.19.3 Distro: KDE neon 20.04 5.19 base: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS Focal 
Machine:   Type: Desktop System: Gigabyte product: X570 UD v: N/A serial: <filter> 
           Mobo: Gigabyte model: X570 UD v: x.x serial: <filter> UEFI: American Megatrends 
           v: F20 date: 07/07/2020 
CPU:       Topology: 12-Core model: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Zen 
           L2 cache: 6144 KiB 
           flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm 
           bogomips: 182065 
           Speed: 3610 MHz min/max: N/A Core speeds (MHz): 1: 3610 2: 3597 3: 3593 4: 4439 
           5: 3906 6: 4442 7: 4190 8: 4143 9: 3619 10: 3628 11: 4058 12: 4109 13: 3598 14: 3833 
           15: 3593 16: 3986 17: 4028 18: 4333 19: 4174 20: 4007 21: 3934 22: 3652 23: 4021 
           24: 4341 

Screenshot_20200728_120802.jpg


No point releases there.
KDE Neon 20.04 was a testing release for users on voluntary basis. The link was only available in the KDE forums. I know because installed more than a week ago. It came with a solid warning that it was not yet stable. Early upgraders were met with a few bugs.

https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=309&t=166844
Image
Post Reply

Return to “Newbie Questions”