[SOLVED] Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

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FamCompKid
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

AndyMH wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:46 am
I haven't lost anything, for all the 'problem' applications in LM20 I've found workarounds
I found two "problem" apps I'm not sure would work on LM 20, but I feel they will.

However, I found an applet that does not work yet. How do you handle "problem" applets? I need/want a couple of them to work on LM 20, unfortunately.

Thanks again for all the replies.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by AndyMH »

If you are specific about which 'problem apps' and 'problem applet' we might be able to help. The only applet I've had a problem with is the CPU temp applet, and all that requires is removal and re-install.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by rickNS »

AndyMH wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:58 pm
I got caught out moving LM17 to LM18 (no idea what I'd installed),
Hey Andy check this out, it will list everything you manually installed, not just the software manager stuff, the wgets (youtube-dl) the PPAs (systemback) the random deb installs (an old version of google earth)

Code: Select all

comm -23 <(apt-mark showmanual | sort -u) <(gzip -dc /var/log/installer/initial-status.gz | sed -n 's/^Package: //p' | sort -u)
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by AndyMH »

Interesting, but don't think it does more than you get using the mint backup tool, and one of those one-liners that would take me a week to decipher :)
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by rickNS »

AndyMH wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:32 pm
Interesting, but don't think it does more than you get using the mint backup tool, and one of those one-liners that would take me a week to decipher :)
The backup tool does not list packages installed through other methods, wget, PPA, and .deb files...it only lists the packages installed via software manager /synaptic.
I installed Kodi from a PPA, because I wanted an older version, you can see it's not on the backup tool list. Don't think I can cypher all that either, but I can copy/paste it.
Attachments
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AndyMH
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by AndyMH »

In that case, I'll save it somewhere for future use. Thanks.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

AndyMH wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:48 am
If you are specific about which 'problem apps' and 'problem applet' we might be able to help. The only applet I've had a problem with is the CPU temp applet, and all that requires is removal and re-install.
Was having second thoughts on upgrading tbh, but CherryTree keeps updating for Ubuntu 20.04 and I don't like its Flatpak version, which it seems will be the only version available for Ubuntu 18.04 and below. I find it odd that they would "abandon" it that way :( Is this policy common among devs?

Anyway, thanks for asking. I checked my apps again.

The application I'm really not sure about is:
  • Cozy (AppImage). It runs on LM 19.3 but their page doesn't show it, that's why I'm guessing it will run on LM 20, too.
Below are apps that I think will run but just want to be extra-sure:
  • Discord. I could only find info from other sites, but they seem to state Snap at the top of the list, the .deb install being second only.
For applets I need:
  • Hideable applets. I've tried other similar applets but this seems to be the only that works on my 2 PC's.
  • Restart Cinnamon
  • CPU Temperature Indicator. Thanks for pointing that out, info I found is that it wouldn't work.
Applets I really want: Applets I could live without:
  • IP Indicator
Lastly, a noob question: could I always assume that an app that runs on Ubuntu 20.04 will always run on LM 20?

Many thanks!
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by AndyMH »

Cherrytree you can get from a ppa:
https://grepitout.com/install-cherrytre ... or-ubuntu/
Haven't tried it myself, but will be doing so in the next couple of days. If it doesn't work it will probably be due to python2 (its absence in LM20) and that is fixable.
IP Indicator
My conky displays my local and public IP address.

Can't think of a reason why an appimage wouldn't work with LM20, I avoid appimages, flatpaks and snap wherever I can. Yes, it is a safe bet that if it runs on Ubuntu 20 it will run on LM20.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

Thank you!
AndyMH wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:29 am
I avoid appimages, flatpaks and snap wherever I can.
Why not AppImages? Haven't found a reason to avoid them. (But the other two, I have.)
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

Just wanted to add this Github issue re CherryTree, just in case my previous reply was confusing :)
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by zcot »

just to mention it, python2 is installed on Mint 20.

the command python is not set to anything by default.

There are the two packages available to install, python-is-python2, or python-is-python3, that set up a symlink. Probably plenty of older python stuff version 2 makes reference to python so it would be useful to add the link for python. Almost any python3 stuff is already referencing python3 specifically so that works good.

Code: Select all

zcot@zcot-MF-7639:~$ python --version
bash: python: command not found
zcot@zcot-MF-7639:~$ python2 --version
Python 2.7.18rc1
zcot@zcot-MF-7639:~$ python3 --version
Python 3.8.5
install python-is-python2 and probably a bunch of older stuff will work fine.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by AndyMH »

All I did was re-instate the symlink ln -s /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/bin/python, python2 is still there. That fixed it for the python2 scripts I've got. Think it's a bit of vandalism on the part of the dev team to remove python. While I understand they want to move on to python3, there is still a lot of stuff around that is dependent on python2.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by zcot »

FamCompKid wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:38 am
CherryTree
  • Cozy
  • Cryptomator
  • Discord. I could only find info from other sites, but they seem to state Snap at the top of the list, the .deb install being second only.
  • Restart Cinnamon
I would do it like this:

Cherrytree: use the deb file: https://www.giuspen.com/cherrytree/#downl

Cozy: build from source: https://github.com/geigi/cozy

Cryptomator: it's java so you can get it run, but there's nothing wrong with using the appimage, but here's his ppa: https://launchpad.net/~sebastian-stenze ... ryptomator

Discord: use their deb file.

Restart Cinnamon : ctrl + alt + backspace

And I would use Conky for cpu or ip stuff.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

Thank you once again!
zcot wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:54 pm
Cherrytree: use the deb file: https://www.giuspen.com/cherrytree/#downl
Couldn't install the deb file (on LM 19.3). Tried this but got the prompt: Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: libgtkmm-3.0-1v5 (>= 3.24.0)

I did this:

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install libgtkmm-3.0-1v5
then it returned:

Code: Select all

libgtkmm-3.0-1v5 is already the newest version (3.22.2-2).
...
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 5 not upgraded.
zcot wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:54 pm
Cozy: build from source: https://github.com/geigi/cozy
Sorry, that's not the Cozy in question. This is their site. It's a cloud service provider.
zcot wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:54 pm
Restart Cinnamon : ctrl + alt + backspace
The above closes all programs and brings me to the desktop login page, it's like a system restart. Was looking to restart Cinnamon only (sorry if I haven't made that clear). However, Ctrl + Alt + Esc seems to work.
zcot wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:54 pm
And I would use Conky for cpu or ip stuff.
Gotcha. I can be flexible with preferences. I want my conky to only show the date and time (part of my "minimalist wallpaper" preference), but I could live with that.

So just to update the list, I'm now left with 3 things I need to run on LM 20:
  • Cozy app
  • Hideable applet: I use a vertical panel that's unfortunately crowded with icons.
  • Restart Cinnamon applet: I don't usually do this but it's for reasons like the above that I'd rather have a ready button rather than try to remember hotkeys, which I couldn't really be bothered with, aka I'm not good at remembering hotkeys if I only use them occasionally.
Thanks!
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by slipstick »

Here's how I handle major upgrades (old post - I'm now running 19.3 and 18.3 - I installed 19.3 where 17.3 used to be). Somewhere down the road I'll install 20.x over 18.3.

viewtopic.php?p=1514217#p1514217
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by AndyMH »

Cherrytree - I used the ppa:

Code: Select all

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:giuspen/ppa
apt update
apt install cherrytree
worked.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

AndyMH wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:45 am
Cherrytree - I used the ppa:

Code: Select all

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:giuspen/ppa
apt update
apt install cherrytree
worked.
Thank you.
AndyMH wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:29 am
Can't think of a reason why an appimage wouldn't work with LM20
Apparently I just learned today that AppImages should work everywhere--that that is actually their selling point. The .exe's of Linux. I use three of them.

Unless I missed any, I don't have "problem apps" anymore at this point, only "problem applets" which I think would be best tackled on Github instead :D

Was looking at Mint's release history and realized that of course not all the apps I use are "on LTS," too, as proven by Cherrytree. Actually, among those I use, it seems it's only CherryTree that got "archived" on Ubuntu 18.04. Seems to follow the current codebase but abandons previous ones, except via Flatpak.

So my questions now are: Would it be generally okay to use "archived" apps if I decided to maximize my LM 19.3's LTS, until 2023? Is this trade-off part of LTS's philosophy? Would you look for alternative apps that don't get abandoned whenever a new Ubuntu release is out?

I was under the impression that I should be able to maximize LTS without getting worried about things like CherryTree (unless I'd have to let CT go but that would make me sad).
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by zcot »

FamCompKid wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:12 am
Was looking at Mint's release history and realized that of course not all the apps I use are "on LTS," too, as proven by Cherrytree. Actually, among those I use, it seems it's only CherryTree that got "archived" on Ubuntu 18.04. Seems to follow the current codebase but abandons previous ones, except via Flatpak.

So my questions now are: Would it be generally okay to use "archived" apps if I decided to maximize my LM 19.3's LTS, until 2023? Is this trade-off part of LTS's philosophy? Would you look for alternative apps that don't get abandoned whenever a new Ubuntu release is out?

I was under the impression that I should be able to maximize LTS without getting worried about things like CherryTree (unless I'd have to let CT go but that would make me sad).
Really, the LTS idea is probably more about packages that are available in the main repository. Any of these 3rd party so-to-speak packages don't go by any specific rule.

There are generally 4 repository types from Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu So, the LTS concept is really only the main focus of what should definitely be 'Main' and maybe reaches into some other repos but there's no hard rule on packages because a 3rd party developer can affect the end result.

A package might be dropped by a developer, or one of the MOTU team(repository maintainers) might even remove a package that has been shown to have some exploit and the developer hasn't updated it and/or the community has not provided some patch. If a developer doesn't cross-develop for versions, and there's no easy way for the community or MOTU to easily port a solution, then the package might not be available.

Interestingly, the conky-manager package for one example, it was developed for Ubuntu prior to the early 16.x versions, and became abandoned sometime after that, but it actually still worked fine through the rest of 16.x, but then for Ubuntu 18.04 it became broken, it would fail to install correctly and not run. But it was still in the repository. It was found that you could do some manual tweaks and get it to work, but it was a broken package available, and it stayed available anyway, and it was still not corrected. Now finally with Ubuntu 20.04 the package has been removed from the repo(plenty of bug reports leading up to that). On the side, the project was forked shortly after 18.04 came out and the program came alive again and would install no problems on 18.04(and also 20.04) without tweaks, but the developer never made the Debian package scaffolding updates that would allow it to be dropped into the Ubuntu repo or never notified the MOTU or nobody from the community packaged it, so it was never available, and probably never will be for 18.04 anyway. But you could readily go to github and install it yourself.

The end story is that with any particular program, especially less popular, even niche programs, is there's no rule or commitment of its availability or stability.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

Many thanks, @zcot.

CherryTree is actually available in Ubuntu packages for 18.04, but not 20.04.

I guess I can still use it without problems. I don't see any updates for the majority of the programs I use, anyway...I think. However, I'm not comfortable with the idea that it got "abandoned" for 18.04 while I see updates for 20.04 (it's on its 3rd update now since its release around 2 weeks ago). I do mind this because I use CherryTree every day. If it were some other not-so-important app then I wouldn't mind at all.

Of course it goes back to personal preference again, which to me would be that, above anything else, I should be able to maximize LTS if I wanted. But I keep learning. Maybe I've grown too accustomed to my Mint routine that loss aversion is only at play.

Now I wish Ubuntu would just release a new codebase every 5 years instead of 2, following LTS's 5 years, too. Why is this not the case?
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

Hi and many thanks again. Well, I have more questions :D

TL;DR:
1. Where to find a PPA's release history?
2. Is it practically better to have partitions in 2020? What's the "norm"? My PCs each have one 1TB HDD.
3. Is it bad practice to carry hidden dot files from one major release to the next?

--

I upgraded one of my PCs to LM 20 (clean install). So far, I like it more than 19.3--it looks much better although I'm not finished setting it up yet :)

I'm confused about PPAs. I'll just use CherryTree again for an example but I believe the point I'm trying to drive at also applies to all PPAs in general.

Thing is, I think I'll be sticking with LM 20 LTS this time, i.e., use until 2025, unless there's a feature I'll be needing from future releases (or I get bored). Stability on my daily drivers is at the top of my list and that's why I think maximizing LTS is for me.

First, I can't find the release history of CherryTree. I think my initial assumption that CherryTree for Ubuntu 18.04 (LM 19.3) has been "abandoned" was utterly wrong.

If you look at its packages page, a package for Precise (Ubuntu 12.04 LTS) was just released last June this year. Precise's End of Life was in 2017. I don't know why they would release for a dead series, but if I'm following that idea, then I must be wrong to assume that development for 18.04 LTS would be stopped soon--it should still be supported until its EOL.

But I couldn't find CherryTree's release history for any Ubuntu series--I believe this will help me decide whether, for example, I should still be sticking with LTS until EOL. Is my thinking right on this? Its developer said he'll release its Flatpak version for Ubuntu 18.04 and below, which seems to have been the practice all along. (I don't use Flatpaks but I assume that after a Flatpak is released, its corresponding .deb package will follow, which is the one I prefer and use.)

--

For my second question, I just learned--post-installation--that I could opt not to wipe a partition when doing a clean install :) I have around 150 GB of offline personal files and when I upgraded I thought I wouldn't want to be transferring those files again--I wanted to be able to wipe the OS partition only.

Since I now plan to stick with LM 20 until 2025, I think I would want to be (completely) clean-installing in the future anyway--but for the purpose of discussion, is it generally better to have an OS partition? What's the "norm" now?

I've never created any partitions and tbh I don't know how, but "Disks" (on LM 20) shows:
- Filesystem Partition 1 537 MB FAT
- Extended Partition Partition 2 1000 GB
- Filesystem Partition 5 1000 GB Ext4

IIRC, my "Disks" on LM 19.3 previously had only one "1 TB" partition.

I save absolutely everything in /home.

Thank you again!
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