Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

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Heppy
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Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by Heppy »

I have installed Cinnamon 20 with a Kubuntu desktop so I have KDE. It is running superbly well, only had a problem with the wifi which Sleeper12 magically cured.
However I have just noticed I have two update managers with slightly different updates. Should I update with both managers?
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SMG
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by SMG »

So you installed two operating systems on top of each other and you want to know whether you should do the updates for both operating systems? Those Kubuntu updates are not desktop updates, they are operating system updates.

As you know, KDE Plasma is not a supported desktop in Linux Mint. I've seen posts where people had problems because they installed the KDE desktop environment on Mint, but I don't recall any of them installing the entire Kubuntu operating system in order to get the desktop environment.

I'm honestly not sure what type of hybrid install you have. Please give us information about your install by entering this command in a terminal:

Code: Select all

inxi -Fxxxrz
Select </> from the mini toolbar above the textbox where you type your reply and enclose the results of the command between the code markers [code]Results[/code].
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Heppy
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by Heppy »

Thank you for the reply, I do realise I have a hybrid system but I do love KDE and my 18.3 KDE runs out of support next year and this seemed the only way to get a sensible version . All the KDE distros, and I have tried most, always seems to have some annoying quirks.
Output below and any help greatly appreciated.

Code: Select all

max@max-HP-Pavilion-g6-Notebook-PC:~$ inxi -Fxxxrz
System:
  Kernel: 5.4.0-53-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 9.3.0 
  Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.18.5 tk: Qt 5.12.8 wm: kwin_x11 dm: LightDM 1.30.0 
  Distro: Linux Mint 20 Ulyana base: Ubuntu 20.04 focal 
Machine:
  Type: Laptop System: Hewlett-Packard product: HP Pavilion g6 Notebook PC 
  v: 068F130000204710000620100 serial: <filter> Chassis: type: 10 serial: <filter> 
  Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 166F v: 09.4C serial: <filter> BIOS: Insyde v: F.66 
  date: 01/24/2013 
Battery:
  ID-1: BAT0 charge: 42.2 Wh condition: 42.2/42.2 Wh (100%) volts: 12.3/10.8 
  model: Hewlett-Packard Primary type: Li-ion serial: <filter> status: Full 
  Device-1: hidpp_battery_0 model: Logitech Wireless Mouse M315/M235 
  serial: <filter> charge: 100% (should be ignored) rechargeable: yes 
  status: Discharging 
CPU:
  Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Pentium B960 bits: 64 type: MCP 
  arch: Sandy Bridge rev: 7 L2 cache: 2048 KiB 
  flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 bogomips: 8779 
  Speed: 798 MHz min/max: 800/2200 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 798 2: 798 
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics 
  vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: i915 v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0 chip ID: 8086:0106 
  Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.8 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa 
  compositor: kwin_x11 resolution: 1366x768~60Hz, 1680x1050~60Hz 
  OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel HD Graphics 2000 (SNB GT1) v: 3.3 Mesa 20.0.8 
  compat-v: 3.0 direct render: Yes 
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel 6 Series/C200 Series Family High Definition Audio 
  vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:1b.0 
  chip ID: 8086:1c20 
  Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.4.0-53-generic 
Network:
  Device-1: Ralink RT5390 Wireless 802.11n 1T/1R PCIe 
  vendor: Hewlett-Packard U98Z077.00 Half-size Mini driver: rt2800pci v: 2.3.0 
  port: 4040 bus ID: 01:00.0 chip ID: 1814:5390 
  IF: wlp1s0 state: up mac: <filter> 
  Device-2: Realtek RTL810xE PCI Express Fast Ethernet vendor: Hewlett-Packard 
  driver: r8169 v: kernel port: 3000 bus ID: 02:00.0 chip ID: 10ec:8136 
  IF: eno1 state: down mac: <filter> 
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 85.80 GiB used: 21.69 GiB (25.3%) 
  ID-1: /dev/sda model: SSD 60GB size: 55.90 GiB speed: 6.0 Gb/s serial: <filter> 
  rev: 0818 scheme: MBR 
  ID-2: /dev/sdb type: USB vendor: Transcend model: JetFlash Transcend 32GB 
  size: 29.90 GiB serial: <filter> rev: 8.01 scheme: MBR 
Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 54.28 GiB used: 19.85 GiB (36.6%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda5 
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 46.0 C mobo: N/A 
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
Repos:
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list 
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/additional-repositories.list 
  1: deb https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/ubuntu/ focal main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/kubuntu-ppa-backports-focal.list 
  1: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/backports/ubuntu focal main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/official-package-repositories.list 
  1: deb https://mirrors.ukfast.co.uk/sites/linuxmint.com/packages ulyana main upstream import backport
  2: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal main restricted universe multiverse
  3: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-updates main restricted universe multiverse
  4: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-backports main restricted universe multiverse
  5: deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal-security main restricted universe multiverse
  6: deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ focal partner
Info:
  Processes: 188 Uptime: 4h 01m Memory: 5.75 GiB used: 2.35 GiB (40.8%) 
  Init: systemd v: 245 runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 9.3.0 alt: 9 Shell: bash 
  v: 5.0.17 running in: konsole inxi: 3.0.38 
max@max-HP-Pavilion-g6-Notebook-PC:~$ 

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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by SMG »

Heppy wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:05 pm
Thank you for the reply, I do realise I have a hybrid system but I do love KDE and my 18.3 KDE runs out of support next year and this seemed the only way to get a sensible version.
Your LM18.3 KDE runs out of support in April 2021. Your LM/Kubuntu hybrid has zero support, so I'm not sure how "sensible" that is.

You have one operating system installed on top of the other. What files are actually running the process? I do not know. That means I have no idea what updates are appropriate. The fact you have two update manager programs seems to indicate your system may not know which operating system is in control.

It is my understanding Kubuntu is based on Ubuntu, but Mint is based on Ubuntu LTS. Kubuntu already has 20.10 available, but Mint is based on Ubuntu 20.04. So are your Kubuntu updates ones which apply to 20.10? You will have to keep track of that and decide what to install. You will also probably be the only person with that LM/Kubuntu hybrid which means you will have to be your own support department when you run into issues.

Based on the inxi output, I would guess--and I stress the word guess--Mint may be in control.
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by Heppy »

Thank you for the helpful and informative reply, that is one of the reasons I wanted to stay with Mint.
As far as I am aware I just installed the Kubuntu desktop not the whole system. I did try the basic KDE desktop but too many items were missing or didn't work, where as with Kubuntu everything was there and it runs superbly well.
I will assume I have Cinnamon 20 and just update that and see what happens. If it all goes t*ts up I will just have to reinstall and lose lovely KDE.
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Termy
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by Termy »

To avoid confusion here, KDE is a desktop environment and nothing more. Linux (not referring to the kernel) is the operating system.

I think you should reconsider this "hybrid" setup, because it will likely cause additional confusion, especially since KDE already has a reputation for being unstable. I think you're better off installing Ubuntu with KDE (AKA: Kubuntu). If you're an experienced user -- and I mean experienced -- you could install Ubuntu using Ubuntu's `mini.iso`, install KDE, then build it up with Linut Mint's stuff, but that's not a quick and easy task; it'd be a pain, and take time.

If you must use your setup as it is now, I would personally ignore both update managers and just update using apt-get(8) in the terminal, but Linux Mint love (or loved?) to prevent people updating their kernels via the terminal. :roll: So, you'll want to update your kernel using either one of the graphical solutions.

Why is your setup actually not a good idea?

If you run into issues, you'll likely be met with the sort of response you've had thus far. You'll also not get any help in an official capacity.

Not only will Cinnamon & KDE take up a ton of space, with KDE already being quite chunky, you'll also be maintaining both selections of software, many packages for which you likely won't even use nor need.

Another bad side to this, is that some of these tools, utilities, programs, etc, will be arguing with each other as to who gets the wheel, such as the two update managers; this can lead to crashes, hangs, misconfiguration, and overall confusion from the user's PoV.

Lastly, removing software or changing configuration files can make a right mess of one or both installed desktop environments. There's more to a desktop environment than simply the programs it comes with, there's also the way in which the system and its software is configured; this isn't just down to the distribution itself.

Even if you decide to remove Cinnamon in favor of keeping KDE, Linux Mint will have you dragging half its arse out with Cinnamon, because Linux Mint are quite liberal in choosing which packages are 'essential'; helpful for new users, perhaps, but not for non-standard situations like this.

I'm speaking from experience of using 18.3; I'm not sure how things different from then to the current iteration, but I'd wager not much, regarding the points made above.

I guess you could think of DEs or indeed distributions like shoes: you wouldn't wear two pairs of shoes at once, right? I mean, fair enough if that's your thang, but I wouldn't recommend it. Your feet will get sore from the extra pressure, they'll get hot and sweaty because of the extra padding. Not good. Nah, you take one pair off, then put another on.
I use Linux Mint 18.3 with Cinnamon in a VirtualBox VM for testing & sandboxing.

I'm LearnLinux (LL) on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfp-lN ... naEE6NtDSg
I'm also terminalforlife (TFL) on GitHub: https://github.com/terminalforlife
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by absque fenestris »

I tried this combination in a VirtualBox and gave up after a few updates. Kubuntu wants something, Mint wants something - the two different update systems do not quite agree.

After a few weeks everything is just a big confusion.

Use a pure KDE: Kubuntu, Neon, Debian or SUSE KDE - whatever, but without mixing with Mint Cinnamon.
Linux Mint 18.3 Sylvia (MATE) 32-bit - Acer D250 Netbook
Linux Mint 20 Ulyana (Cinnamon) 64-bit - Huawei MateBook X Pro
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by Heppy »

Guys thanks for all your input, it was one of the reasons why I posted this question to see the opinion of the Gurus. So far my hybrid system is running superbly well, it boots and loads pages faster then my old 18.3 KDE. I did nearly settle on Netrunner but web page loading was very slow. I will try it over the next few days and then try an update and see what happens. If it causes problems I have a Clonzilla copy of my old Mint KDE>
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by Termy »

Nice one on the CloneZilla image! I use CZ myself and have done for many years; hasn't let me down. :) Good luck with KDE and I hope it does work well for you.
I use Linux Mint 18.3 with Cinnamon in a VirtualBox VM for testing & sandboxing.

I'm LearnLinux (LL) on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfp-lN ... naEE6NtDSg
I'm also terminalforlife (TFL) on GitHub: https://github.com/terminalforlife
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by SMG »

Heppy wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:48 pm
Guys thanks for all your input, it was one of the reasons why I posted this question to see the opinion of the Gurus.
Did you see this thread KDE on future versions of Mint (+20)?
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by Hoser Rob »

WHen people on these forums say they've installed multiple DEs and they say "It is running superbly well", that should actually be interpreted as "it hasn't broken yet".
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by Heppy »

Don't worry I am quite expecting it to break. I will keep you all informed.
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by Termy »

:lol: I think, at this point, we'd all be quite upset if it didn't go up in smoke!
I use Linux Mint 18.3 with Cinnamon in a VirtualBox VM for testing & sandboxing.

I'm LearnLinux (LL) on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfp-lN ... naEE6NtDSg
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

Heppy wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:09 pm
Don't worry I am quite expecting it to break. I will keep you all informed.
The point being made is that if it does break, don't ask here about how to fix it. That said, if you like KDE and want a stable system then install a dedicated KDE distribution. KDE neon is worth looking at.
Coming to a thread near you: Lots of bragging about my AMD 5950X. Currently delayed due to high demand.
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by Heppy »

I would love to try KDE Neon but I have tried various times to download and it always failed so I give up. Other distros download fine so any ideas why.
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by Termy »

Heppy wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:39 pm
I would love to try KDE Neon but I have tried various times to download and it always failed so I give up. Other distros download fine so any ideas why.
You could try one of the many mirrors out there which likely host versions of the KDE Neon ISO. Here's the Bytemark, for example:

https://mirror.bytemark.co.uk

I can't see Neon in that list, so consider it a link to demonstrate the use of mirrors. :P
I use Linux Mint 18.3 with Cinnamon in a VirtualBox VM for testing & sandboxing.

I'm LearnLinux (LL) on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfp-lN ... naEE6NtDSg
I'm also terminalforlife (TFL) on GitHub: https://github.com/terminalforlife
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by phd21 »

Hi Heppy,

I just read your post and some of the good replies to it. Here are my thoughts on this as well.

Although you can install multiple desktops into one system, with KDE it is has been recommended to install Kubuntu into Mate or Xfce not Cinnamon. I have never been able to get KDE Neon to integrate well with Linux Mint.

In your case, I would run both update managers. I was not a big fan of KDE's Discover which is comparable to Linux Mint's Update Manager because it did not work well until recent updates this year. KDE uses "pkcon update" from the console terminal rather than "sudo apt update" that Linux Mint uses.

When I first switched to Linux, my favorite operating systems were Linux Mint KDE and their Cinnamon version. But as most people know, they dropped their KDE version years ago :( . I dual boot Linux Mint Cinnamon and KDE Neon now. the "Xfce" desktop has had some major updates for the better.

As for KDE's stability, I think it is stable, but the KDE developers and maintainers have been dealing with a lot of issues since they switched from Plasma 4 to Plasma 5. Plasma 4 was my favorite KDE system where everything worked so well IMHO, and it was only after they forced Plasma 5 that things changed dramatically and not always for the better. Fortunately, there are a lot of people constantly working on KDE improvements and stability. I am using KDE Neon User Edition based on Ubuntu 20.04 like Linux Mint 20 and it is stable, but there are still some issues to deal with. I have not been able to use KDE online accounts with my Google accounts since updating to the newer version based on Ubuntu 20.04. They claim to have fixed this, but it's not working on my system yet.

Installing KDE Neon is not that hard to do, just download their User Edition (recommended) or their Developer edition iso file, check the checksum values to make sure it downloaded correctly. Note: Not all bootable USB stick creator applications will create a good bootable USB stick of Linux Mint or KDE Neon for computers using uEFI. If you boot to a USB stick with an installation version of Linux on a computer with uEFI, then you should see a boot entry in the uEFI boot menu and the legacy boot menu, if you do not, then it is not working properly, so try another bootable USB stick creator like Rosa Image Writer which is recommended on the KDE Neon website and works well. With Linux Mint I think it showed up as Ubuntu in the uEFI boot menu and with KDE Neon it shows up as Neon. You want to select an option in the uEFI boot menu on uEFI computers for the installation to work properly and update the uEFI boot menu correctly.

Hope this helps ...
Phd21: Mint 20 and 19.2 Cinnamon & xKDE (Mint Xfce + Kubuntu KDE) & KDE Neon 64-bit (new based on Ubuntu 20.04) Awesome OS's, Dell Inspiron I5 7000 (7573) 2 in 1 touch screen, Dell OptiPlex 780 Core2Duo E8400 3GHz,4gb Ram, Intel 4 Graphics.
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Re: Cinnamon 20/ Kubuntu updates

Post by Heppy »

Just an update, so far Aok.
Have done two updates using the Mint update and no problem, interestingly it also cleared the updates from Kubuntu Discovery.
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