Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by Knife »

t42 wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:15 pm "Add a new connection" -- > Connection Type "Ethernet" --> feel it with original wired data.
I'm not sure what you mean.
t42 wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:15 pm By the way can you click on the settings icon for the wired connection and uncheck an automatically option?
Yes, and I've already done that. Unchecked the "Connect Automatically with priority" and also the "All users may use this connection" checkboxes on the General tab for the wired connection. Still, the same behavior persists.

While I can think of several reasons why an OS might default to trying to establish a wired connection first, upon boot-up, I find it unfathomable that an OS can have a potential connection which it has configured and which works, and show it as such, yet provide no way (simple or not, at this point) for the user to elect to use that connection.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by GS3 »

Knife wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:45 pmWhile I can think of several reasons why an OS might default to trying to establish a wired connection first, upon boot-up, I find it unfathomable that an OS can have a potential connection which it has configured and which works, and show it as such, yet provide no way (simple or not, at this point) for the user to elect to use that connection.
I am going to go out on a limb here and guess this is a malfunction and not the way it was designed to work.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by Knife »

I'm pretty sure an OS (or at least this "flavor" of it) not providing the user a way to select the working wireless network connection, which the OS has configured and saved, isn't a malfunction.

The wireless being knocked out of being the default may be the product of some malfunction, but not giving the user a way to remedy that is absolutely a design oversight.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by GS3 »

Knife wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:35 pmI'm pretty sure an OS (or at least this "flavor" of it) not providing the user a way to select the working wireless network connection, which the OS has configured and saved, isn't a malfunction.

The wireless being knocked out of being the default may be the product of some malfunction, but not giving the user a way to remedy that is absolutely a design oversight.
You think it was designed that way? Why is it only happening to the OP and not to the rest of us?

It seems to me that, as has been proposed, the problem is not with the OS selecting Ethernet but rather that the WIFI does not work correctly. It half-loads but it is not completely loaded and usable. If you want to call every malfunction a "design oversight" because a way to remedy it was not provided then I guess we have different definitions of the word.

Again, in my Cinnamon that problem does not occur. The WIFi is either present and usable or absent and not usable. There is no "you can see me but you cannot use me" state.

I wonder if it is a laptop with a HW switch and when this switch is turned to off the OS shows the WIFI adapter as existing but not usable. It could be the switch is wonky. I cannot do the test as I am not on such a machine. The OP shows "Hard blocked: no" but I wonder if that result was taken as the problem was happening or when it was not happening. It would be good to confirm the output as the problem is happening. Maybe someone with a laptop can test the behavior if the app when the WIFI is enabled and when it is disabled by the HW switch and see if it matches what is described in the OP.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by cliffcoggin »

Knife wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:35 pm
The wireless being knocked out of being the default may be the product of some malfunction, but not giving the user a way to remedy that is absolutely a design oversight.
You are misunderstanding the problem by transposing cause and effect. The attempt by your computer to establish a wired connection is not the cause of losing the wifi connection; rather it is a result of the loss of wifi. Therefore your attempts to eliminate any possibility of a wired connection will not force the computer to revert to a wifi connection. Wifi is the real problem here that you need to concentrate on.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by GS3 »

The first and easiest thing to try is an external USB - WIFI adapter.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by Knife »

This forum is... ...interesting.

Lot's of folks not reading my initial post and more interested in telling me I'm thinking about or presenting the problem incorrectly than simply answering the question.
GS3 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:06 pm The first and easiest thing to try is an external USB - WIFI adapter.
I don't think so.

Once again, wireless 100% works, and always works, when this happens, after a single re-boot. It's not the adapter OR Linux's configuration of it. It's just getting the OS to actually use it.
GS3 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:03 am You think it was designed that way? Why is it only happening to the OP and not to the rest of us?
So, you're suggesting that I am the one that designed a user interface, which shows the user a wireless connection as available and configured (and last used not more than a day ago), and then provided no way to actually access or re-establish that connection?

Sorry but, I didn't design this user interface.

You would do well to stop conflating the related, yet still separate, issues of: 1) the hardware issue, of the OS not utilizing an existing, working wireless connection for whatever reason, and 2) the user interface issue, where the OS a) shows the user the presence of that wireless connection in it's own "Network Connections" dialogue box, while that OS simultaneously b) provides the user no way to choose or re-establish that connection.
GS3 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:03 amIt seems to me that, as has been proposed, the problem is not with the OS selecting Ethernet but rather that the WIFI does not work correctly.
It's pretty obvious - yet not at all relevant - that could very well be the reason. To be clear: short of the reason being that my wireless adapter and/or network is entirely broken (thereby making a wireless connection impossible until THAT condition would be remedied) - which IS NOT THE CASE - the reason the OS is only trying to establish a non-existent wired connection doesn't matter.

I'm just looking for a way - short of a full re-start - to be able to have the OS stop trying to connect to that non-existent wired connection, and instead move on to trying the wireless - which again, folks, DOES WORK! immediately upon re-boot.

Clearly, there is something about re-starting the OS that allows it to move past trying to establish a wired connection and move on to cleanly establishing the wireless connection. I'm just asking if there's an easy, direct way to do that - a-la "ipconfig /release" in Windows - in Linux Mint.
GS3 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:03 am It half-loads but it is not completely loaded and usable. If you want to call every malfunction a "design oversight" because a way to remedy it was not provided then I guess we have different definitions of the word.
No, we have different understandings of the SEPARATE issues of: 1) the connection problem, and 2) the design of the user interface that affords the user absolutely no explanation of the problem and no way for the user to move past it.

Again the wireless driver, configuration or whatever only half-loading, or not loading, or being entirely overlooked by the OS, may be some type of coding oversight (or maybe it's intentional, I don't know). The DESIGN however, of the USER INTERFACE which shows a wireless connection as i) available; ii) configured, iii) having been recently functioning and used, and v) with no indicator that it is malfunctioning, and which vi) doesn't then allow the user to select or re-establish that wireless connection is - categorically - a DESIGN ISSUE.
GS3 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:03 am Again, in my Cinnamon that problem does not occur. The WIFi is either present and usable or absent and not usable. There is no "you can see me but you cannot use me" state.
Well, bully for you!

As I've already demonstrated in here - that's NOT the case with my installation. In my "Network Connections" dialogue box, as the user interface IS DESIGNED, it shows me a wireless connection that is configured, saved and has worked no less recently than one day ago. That DESIGN shows me no alarm or problem with that connection. No "X" next to it, no exclamation point next to it, no "Currently Not Available" note was DESIGNED into it. There is nothing that would let me know I can't use it. What is more, in the DESIGN of that user interface, I can click on that connection and highlight it, but can do nothing else with it (other than see it's configuration details or delete it). That's what the user interface WAS DESIGNED to show me and allow/not allow me to do.
Network Connections No Wired connection.png

GS3 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:03 amI wonder if it is a laptop with a HW switch and when this switch is turned to off the OS shows the WIFI adapter as existing but not usable. It could be the switch is wonky. I cannot do the test as I am not on such a machine.
*sigh*

No, it's not a laptop. No, there is no switch to turn the wireless on or off. It's a desktop with an XT MoBo that has both the ethernet and wireless adapters built-in (and both enabled, in the BIOS). I've already explained all this, at the start of the thread.
cliffcoggin wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:30 am You are misunderstanding the problem by transposing cause and effect. The attempt by your computer to establish a wired connection is not the cause of losing the wifi connection; rather it is a result of the loss of wifi. Therefore your attempts to eliminate any possibility of a wired connection will not force the computer to revert to a wifi connection. Wifi is the real problem here that you need to concentrate on.
Thanks, but no. This isn't about transposing cause and effect.

I understand the problem. The cause isn't really relevant. I never asked for an explanation of - or remedy for - whatever the cause might be. I don't really care.

Sure, it would be great to eventually solve the underlying problem but, that's not what what I ever asked.

As the very title of this thread indicates, all I ever asked was "Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?"

To re-cap:**
1) I have determined that my WiFi network is up, running and stable.
2) I have determined that my hardware WiFi adapter on my MoBo is up, running and stable.
3) I have determined that Linux MINT 20.1 is configured to use this hardware and establish a robust wireless connection, SOMETIMES.
4) I have determined that Linux MINT 20.1 - SOMETIMES - fails to employ its configuration to use this hardware and establish a robust wireless connection.
**4.5 for the folks that struggle with the difference between an obvious network fault, and the design of the OS user interface: I have determined that
Linux MINT 20.1 has a user interface design that: a) gives the user no indication of the network fault, and b) gives the user no option to simply select, or
attempt to re-establish, a network connection that the OS is designed to be showing the user as available, with no issues.
5) I have determined that when Linux MINT 20.1 DOES SOMETIMES fail to employ its configuration to use this hardware and establish a robust wireless connection, then Linux MINT 20.1 will thereafter successfully use this configuration and hardware and establish a robust wireless connection, immediately after a single re-boot.

From that, I conclude:
1) Obviously, MINT isn't establishing a wireless connection at each boot up. It sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.
2) If a simple re-boot ALWAYS solves the problem, there is a chance that all I need to do is kill and then re-start the network connections configuration routine, while the OS is up.

Perhaps not. Perhaps a full re-boot is the only way to have the OS eventually recognize and utilize the wireless interface. All I was asking however, was if there's a way to - inside the running instance of MINT 20.1 - to re-establish a known, working wireless network connection.

That's all.

My responding to a bunch of ancillary inquiries and hypotheses has not changed that simple request.

I have tried:

sudo dhclient -r
sudo dhclient
sudo dhclient -r eth0 (which I think in my case is "eno1" for the ethernet and 'wlo1" for the wireless)
sudo dhclient eth0
systemctl restart network.service and
systemctl restart networking.service

All, to no avail.

I am going to try "sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart" and also "nmcli con" followed by "nmcli con down id 'my wired and/or wireless adapter'" and then
nmcli con up id 'my wired and/or wireless adapter'" but I am not very hopeful.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by GS3 »

Knife wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:58 pmTo re-cap:**
1) I have determined that my WiFi network is up, running and stable.
2) I have determined that my hardware WiFi adapter on my MoBo is up, running and stable.
3) I have determined that Linux MINT 20.1 is configured to use this hardware and establish a robust wireless connection, SOMETIMES.
4) I have determined that Linux MINT 20.1 - SOMETIMES - fails to employ its configuration to use this hardware and establish a robust wireless connection.
That is your analysis but I do not find it convincing. You are certain the WIFI adapter and its driver are working flawlessly and therefore the OS must be at fault but there are dozens here using the OS without problem and without that Intel Wireless-AC 9560 adapter which, coincidentally, has a history of wonky drivers.

From my point of view the evidence points more likely towards a faulty adapter-driver than to a faulty OS.

You get frustrated because you have made up your mind that the problem lies with the OS and several here are telling you it might be elsewhere. You don't even want to consider the possibility. OK then. Good luck.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by Knife »

GS3 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:09 pm That is your analysis but I do not find it convincing. You are certain the WIFI adapter and its driver are working flawlessly and therefore the OS must be at fault but there are dozens here using the OS without problem and without that Intel Wireless-AC 9560 adapter which, coincidentally, has a history of wonky drivers.
Man, you REALLY like arguing with something you wish I said, without actually reading what I DID say.

I didn't say I am "certain the WIFI adapter and its driver are working flawlessly" I said the hardware WiFi adapter on my MoBo is up, running and stable and I have determined that Linux MINT 20.1 is configured to use this hardware and establish a robust wireless connection, SOMETIMES, and ALWYAS after a single re-boot. I mean, I even put those caveats in ALL CAPS to help folks be clear about the precise issue, but you ignored them, anyway.

And did you just link to some supposed, random problem with the driver on a Windows laptop?

Talk about not finding a post convincing....

Again, I don't assume "the OS must be at fault." I DON'T CARE what the fault is. If it's a "wonky driver" (that somehow ALWAYS works on a re-boot... :roll: ) that's just fine.

Again, all I'm asking is: Is there a way to re-start the network configuration routine, without having to do a full re-boot.

If that re-sets the OS? GREAT! If it re-sets the driver itself? GREAT!

It doesn't matter HOW I accomplish this. I am simply trying to emulate, from a network configuration perspective, that full-reboot, on an already instantiated MINT session.

That's all.

To be clear, I have not made up my mind that the problem lies with ANYTHING. Again, I have not asked for a cause of the problem. I'm frustrated because I've gotten dozens of useless responses, many (all?) of which clearly indicate that the person responding just hasn't read the detailed description of the issue, or the specific request - which is simply for any type of hot networking re-start.

Not one person in this entire thread posted anything like: "Try sudo dhclient -r" or "Try sudo dhclient" or "Try sudo dhclient -r eno1 for the ethernet and wlo1 for the wireless" or "Try sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart and then 'nmcli con' followed by 'nmcli con down id [your wired and/or wireless adapter]'"

I'm finding all that stuff elsewhere. Meanwhile, this thread has filled up with tangential, "you have presented and XY problem" and "you are transposing the cause and the effect" useless observations.

Thanks.
Last edited by Knife on Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by GS3 »

I apologize for trying to help and for any distress this may have caused you. It will not happen again.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by buteman »

At the risk of annoying you what do you think about this:
It's a desktop with an XT MoBo that has both the ethernet and wireless adapters built-in (and both enabled, in the BIOS).
Disable ethernet in the Bios and see what happens then. You can always turn it back on later if you want to use it
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by Knife »

Thanks buteman.

Disabling the ethernet adapter in the BIOS is not ideal, either, as it would still cause me to have to go into the BIOS and re-set it (i.e. full re-boot, again), when necessary.

I may try this, as well as completely disabling the ethernet connection from within MINT 20.1 anyway however, just to see what the result is.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by buteman »

What I am saying is that with ethernet not being available to Mint it eliminates it from your problem. It might then be easier to diagnose your problem.
You have said you have never used wired ethernet so it's not going to be any real inconvenience to you now so you stand a better chance of solving the problem.
Some of the causes for the sudden and unpredictable loss of your wifi have been mentioned.

Just to list some I can think of:
1/ Your wifi hardware may be poor.
2/ Your router hardware may be poor.
3/ The signal you are getting is weak due to how far your router is from your PC.
4/ Interference for other routers on the same wifi channel.
5/ Interference from other electronic kit such as cordless phones wireless central heating controllers or microwave ovens.
6/ Electrical noise such as motor starters in fridges or freezers.
7/ Temporary reduction of the wifi signal due to a door being opened or closed (especially if it's metal), a person or pet passing between your computer and the router.
For many of these your would need to be very aware of the event taking place so it might be difficult to find it and rectify it.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by Knife »

buteman wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:26 am What I am saying is that with ethernet not being available to Mint it eliminates it from your problem. It might then be easier to diagnose your problem.
Yes, I understand what your are suggesting and why. But as others have observed, it's likely folly to assume that the presence of the ethernet option has anything to do with it. It's that the wireless option is unavailable/being ignored that is almost certainly the issue.

But yes, as I said, it's worth examining.
buteman wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:26 am Just to list some [causes of loss of WiFi] I can think of:
1/ Your wifi hardware may be poor. - It's not. It's a 1 year old machine on which the WiFi works 100% of the time when booted into other OSes - and also after MINT is re-booted
2/ Your router hardware may be poor. - It's not. It is a mesh system that is working 100%, with an incredibly strong signal, to multiple devices throughout the house
3/ The signal you are getting is weak due to how far your router is from your PC. - It's not. It is about 11 feet from a mesh node. Again, it gets very strong signal and works 100% of the time when booting to other OSes, and also with MINT, right after that re-boot.
4/ Interference for other routers on the same wifi channel. - Again, nope. It's a single mesh system which is providing 100% reliable signal to every other device in the house, as well as to this machine when booting to other OSes, and also with MINT, right after a re-boot.
5/ Interference from other electronic kit such as cordless phones wireless central heating controllers or microwave ovens. - Nope. See above
6/ Electrical noise such as motor starters in fridges or freezers.- This possibility has been eliminated. See above
7/ Temporary reduction of the wifi signal due to a door being opened or closed (especially if it's metal), a person or pet passing between your computer and the router.- Again, not the issue.

I may be a "newbie" to the Linux MINT OS, but not to networking, computers in general, or problem-solving and deductive reasoning.

Thanks.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by buteman »

I'll leave you to it then
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by Knife »

Not that anyone cares but, just in case someone else comes in here with the same issue:

1) "Deleting" the wired network connection in the Network Configuration window does nothing, as MINT re-establishes it, upon re-boot (I assume since it sees that hardware and automatically configures it and lists it as present) and

2) None of the other potential hot-re-starts of the network configuration I've found elsewhere (and listed above, here) work, either.

I'm stuck having to do a full re-boot, after which, the WiFi connection never fails to work.

Incredibly unhelpful for an OS to show the user several alternate network connection methods, with no way for the user to actually CHOOSE the connection to be used.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by GS3 »

Knife wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:08 pmI'm stuck having to do a full re-boot, after which, the WiFi connection never fails to work.

Incredibly unhelpful for an OS to show the user several alternate network connection methods, with no way for the user to actually CHOOSE the connection to be used.
You refuse to listen to those who were trying to help you. You refuse to consider what others are telling you. You refuse to answer questions. People have been trying to help you and you have just wasted their time and effort. Everything you have been told has fallen in deaf ears. And you have not advanced in resolving the problem. Maybe the first thing you would need to change is your attitude and your approach?

You sound like a spoiled person saying "I want THIS! Why can't I have it?" The world does not work like that.

The machine gives you a choice among those network connections that are functional and if the wireless stops being functional the only way to get it to work is to diagnose the problem and resolve it and get it working again. Just winging that you want it is not going to convince the machine to change its mind or to fix it by itself.

It looks like the WIFI adapter stops working and just shouting at the OS that you want to use it is not going to fix the problem. It may be a hardware problem, it may be a driver problem, it may be any number of things and the only way to fix it is to determine the cause and find a remedy if possible.

If you want to resolve the problem you are doing it all wrong. Complaining that the OS will not let you select a non-functional device is just silly. Suppose it let you choose a non-functional device, then what?

If you just want to whine and rant then you are in the wrong section and Chat is your place. Or did you come here just looking for an argument? Jeeezzz!
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by Knife »

Thanks but, I've read every single response posted in here. So, no, I don't "refuse to listen to those who were trying to help you."

I've pointed out where the suggestions were NOT HELPFUL.

I've considered what every single poster has said. Many of them simply did not read the problem. Those that made suggestions, I tried them NONE OF THEM WORK. So, again no, I don't "refuse to consider what others are telling you."

Is there a question I refused - or even neglected - to answer? Please show me where, and I will answer.

Actually, many of the people that have been trying to help me have just wasted both their and my, time and effort. Half the responses in here are not even applicable to the problem. The others WERE TRIED and DID NOT WORK.

Actually, I HAVE advanced in resolving the problem. Just not with any of the "help" I got in here, thanks.

Funny that, huh?

I kinda think I sound like a normal person saying "I KNOW an OS CAN do this! Why can't Linux MINT do it?"

And I sound like that, because other OSes work JUST LIKE that, eh?

Um, if you ACTUALLY READ THE THREAD, it is clear that the machine gives me a DISPLAY OF those network connections that are functional AS WELL AS THOSE that ARE NOT. And again, when the wireless stops being functional the only way to get it to work is NOT "to diagnose the problem and resolve it and get it working again." It's simply to re-boot.

Every

Single

Time.

Do I need to repeat that, yet AGAIN?

If it looks to you "like the WIFI adapter stops working" then maybe you can give me the rationale for why Linux MINT shows it as available? Without it being grayed out, an exclamation point or some other indicator that it has "stopped working" (I know I know,.... I'm just spoiled and don't understand - despite the fact that EVERY OTHER OS DOES EXACTLY THAT...)

I'm pretty sure I came in here looking for not an argument, but an ANSWER - which I can now count you among the many who cannot provide one (but are happy to argue with me and tell me I'm "asking wrong").

Jeeezzz.

Anyway, as I said, I found the cause of the problem.

The way Linux MINT handles temporarily-non-functioning network hardware is STILL dumb. Apparently, many of you refuse to acknowledge that there's room for improvement there, which is.... just weird stupid OS "fan-boi" BS.

Maybe the first thing you would need to change is your attitude and your approach?
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by GS3 »

Knife wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:42 pm I found the cause of the problem.
I am glad you did. All's well that ends well. It would be nice if you shared what you found so others may benefit.
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Re: Is There an Easy Way to Select Which Network Connection is Used?

Post by Knife »

Oh, I posted what I found out in those posts where I had "refused to answer questions" that you noted.

I edited those posts and included an explanation of the cause as part of the edited response. So you should be able to easily find them...

LOL.

But seriously, the issue appears to lie with booting to Linux shortly after a Win10 session. In Win10, if "fast boot" is enabled, even when you close a session, it holds onto it's connection and DHCP assignment for the machine (Win fastboot is actually a hybrid of the traditional cold boot and resuming from a "hibernate" option/state - the OS closes the user session, but the kernel session is not completely closed, but actually hibernated - including the hardware driver initialization and other user session details). When Linux boots for the first time after one of these Win10 sessions has recently been terminated, it defers to that Win10 "pseudo-hibernated" state. Linux sees the state of the wireless hardware/connection - or perhaps more appropriately, DOESN'T see it, as available - as it is still under the control of the previous Win10 session, and so it just ignores that potential connection.

Still, really bad UI design that this is apparently happening and Linux MINT does NOT give the user any kind of "No wireless adapter/connection found" warning, but incredibly, actually shows the user only that connection as configured and the last time it was successfully used (?!). The Network Manager app needs some serious work, there.

Further investigation indicates that the reason Linux MINT successfully finds and configures the wireless connection upon re-boot is because not only does Linux overtake the Windows semi-hibernated state upon IT's boot (and Linux doesn't have anything like that semi-hibernated "fast boot" option when IT shuts down), but also, Linux apparently specifically delivers a "kill all network connections and release all network clients" command, as part of the shut-down routine. So, on re-boot after closing a Linux session, the machine will show all network connections as available, to the next boot OS.

The resolution I have found so far is to either disable fastboot in Windows, so that it doesn't hang onto the wireless hardware driver and DHCP assignment on "shut down" like that, OR to just issue an ipconfig /release command, at the end of a Win10 session. Neither of which is ideal, but...

I wish there was some way to have Linux look past that Win10 hibernation-state and just take control of the wireless connection from it, but I haven't found it yet. This may be asking too much however (at least at this point).

In any event, there DEFINITELY should be some type of "wireless adapter/connection not found" message in Linux's Network Manager, when the Linux is clearly not finding that hardware or connection.
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