[SOLVED] - Update Manager offering to 'upgrade' my kernel to an OLDER version. WHAT?

[Cassandra]

Hi,
'Update Manager' is today notifying me that an 'update' is available to 'upgrade' my Linux kernel, to v. 5.4.0-71.19.

Ordinarily, I just accept the recommended 'upgrades' but I know that my current system kernel is v. 5.8.7-050807.
I intend to ignore this 'upgrade'. To go from 5.8.x to 5.4.x does not seem to me to be any kind of 'update'. But am I wrong?

I have two questions:
1- Would any of you advise me to actually accept & install the 5.4 kernel to replace my system's 5.8 kernel?

2- Why is Update Manager offering what appears to be a retrograde step? (And, if doing this would be a retrograde step that is inadvisable, how do I stop the 'Update Manager' from Offering earlier kernel versions in future?)

My thanks in advance for your answers.

Slàinte,
Cass.

[Pjotr]

Probably just the kernel headers?

[absque fenestris]

Just to be sure: have you loaded a 5.4 kernel in addition to the 5.8 kernel?

[Cassandra]

Probably just the kernel headers?

I don't understand what you mean by that

The 'Update Manager' lists the update as "The Linux Kernel" - it says nothing about being just the headers.

The 'Description' section of the notification warns me that "Kernel regressions can affect your ability to connect to the Internet or to log on graphically".

That said, the package size is listed as being only 1Mb, and the list of packages that are affected is only:

- linux-generic
- linux-headers-generic
- linux-image-generic
- linux-libc-dev

I am utterly new to Linux, but am aware that messing around with a kernel comes with a huge sign saying 'Hic sunt dracones', so am wary of changing my system kernel to include components from a v5.4.x kernel when I am running a v5.8.x kernel.

[Cassandra]

Just to be sure: have you loaded a 5.4 kernel in addition to the 5.8 kernel?

Thank you for that!

Yes, I have found that my system does actually have several v5.4.x kernels in it.
I'm surprised by that, because I only bought the machine a couple of weeks ago, and most of the 5.4 kernels are listed as 'superseded'.

Will I therefore be able to install the new package without the change affecting my 5.8 kernel in any way?
(I know that's an incredibly stupid question, but I am still very much 'erring on the side of caution'.)

[absque fenestris]

For example, if you did the system installation with a 5.4 kernel and then upgraded to the 5.8 kernel, the 5.4 kernel is still present and updates are offered for both kernels.

If this were the case for you, you could remove the 5.4 kernel.

[absque fenestris]

By the way - there are certainly no stupid questions with the kernel - unless you have a computer that works without hardware ...

[Pjotr]

For example, if you did the system installation with a 5.4 kernel and then upgraded to the 5.8 kernel, the 5.4 kernel is still present and updates are offered for both kernels.

If this were the case for you, you could remove the 5.4 kernel.

Exactly. Which (if you use the kernel tool in Update Manager) might still leave 5.4.x kernel headers intact, which will continue to get updates. No problem, of course.

[Cassandra]

For example, if you did the system installation with a 5.4 kernel and then upgraded to the 5.8 kernel, the 5.4 kernel is still present and updates are offered for both kernels.

If this were the case for you, you could remove the 5.4 kernel.

So, am I right to now think that it's safe (& actually a good idea) for me to install this update to the v5.4 kernel, because:

• the update will only affect the 5.4 kernel and;
  I'm actually running the 5.8 kernel, so
  I won't change how my system runs, but
  the older 5.4 kernel will have been improved IF I decide to ever revert to it.

[Additional question: why are NO bullet points appearing in the list above, except after the first item? How do I make one appear at the start of each line inside the 'list' tags?]

Or would I be better-off totally removing all the v.5.4 kernels from my system?

[absque fenestris]

The term "superseded" can be a bit confusing - it doesn't mean "superfluous".
Especially with older devices, one or more superseded kernels are kept to be on the safe side if the device cannot handle an update.

[Cassandra]

The term "superseded" can be a bit confusing - it doesn't mean "superfluous".
Especially with older devices, one or more superseded kernels are kept to be on the safe side if the device cannot handle an update.

I have discovered that I have the following kernels listed as Installed (& as 'Superseded') on my system:
5.4.0-58
5.4.0-67
5.4.0-70
and
5.8.7-050807
which is listed as Active and as 'Unsupported'.

So, after your kind explanations, I now think that I should install the 'upgrade' that 'Update Manager' is offering me.

Does that seem sensible?

[Cassandra]

Well, I installed the update, and I now have another kernel (5.4.0-71) listed as present on my system.

My machine is still booting in to its 5.8.7-050807 kernel, so nothing has visibly changed for me as the user, and I now have another long-term-support kernel available 'in the background', to which I can choose to 'revert' my system if I ever encounter any problems in future with updates to the 5.8.7 kernel.

My thanks to absque fenestris and to Pjotr for their help - and to the Mint development team for issuing updates through 'Update Manager' that (unlike 'updates' issued on a rival, commercial, OS) don't banjax one's computer when one installs them

Slàinte,
Cass.

[Pjotr]

My machine is still booting in to its 5.8.7-050807 kernel

Which is bad, because that's not an officially supported 5.8.x kernel.

The officially supported 5.8.x kernel on my machine, which is the latest in its series, is 5.8.0-48-generic. How did you get that non-official (and therefore problematic) kernel? And why did you install it?

[Cassandra]

My machine is still booting in to its 5.8.7-050807 kernel

Which is bad, because that's not an officially supported 5.8.x kernel.

The officially supported 5.8.x kernel on my machine, which is the latest in its series, is 5.8.0-48-generic. How did you get that non-official (and therefore problematic) kernel? And why did you install it?

I didn't install it myself - I am new to Linux, so didn't want to be needing to do any tinkering to make all the laptop's hardware work with the OS.
I bought a laptop that came with Linux pre-installed on it (from an established European vendor of machines that have Linux as their OS). From the list of distros that the vendor offers to pre-install, I selected Mint.

This is the kernel that was installed on the laptop when I got it. All the hardware works.
Would you advise me to install the 5.8.0-48-generic kernel, and disable this one?

EDIT TO ADD:
Here are my system's details:

Code: Select all

System:    Kernel: 5.8.7-050807-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: N/A Desktop: Cinnamon 4.8.6 
           wm: muffin dm: LightDM Distro: Linux Mint 20.1 Ulyssa base: Ubuntu 20.04 focal 
Machine:   Type: Laptop System: Notebook product: NS50MU v: N/A serial: <filter> Chassis: type: 10 
           serial: <filter> 
           Mobo: Notebook model: NS50MU serial: <filter> UEFI: INSYDE v: 1.07.01LWL 
           date: 09/07/2020 
Battery:   ID-1: BAT0 charge: 71.0 Wh condition: 71.5/73.9 Wh (97%) volts: 8.8/7.7 
           model: Notebook BAT serial: <filter> status: Charging 
CPU:       Topology: Quad Core model: 11th Gen Intel Core i5-1135G7 bits: 64 type: MT MCP 
           arch: Tiger Lake rev: 1 L2 cache: 8192 KiB 
           flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 38707 
           Speed: 3800 MHz min/max: 400/4200 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 3696 2: 3421 3: 3058 
           4: 3703 5: 3923 6: 3285 7: 3183 8: 3794 
Graphics:  Device-1: Intel driver: i915 v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0 chip ID: 8086:9a49 
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.9 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa 
           resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz 
           OpenGL: renderer: Mesa Intel Xe Graphics (TGL GT2) v: 4.6 Mesa 20.2.6 
           direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Device-1: Intel vendor: CLEVO/KAPOK driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:1f.3 
           chip ID: 8086:a0c8 
           Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.8.7-050807-generic 
Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: CLEVO/KAPOK 
           driver: r8169 v: kernel port: 3000 bus ID: 34:00.0 chip ID: 10ec:8168 
           IF: enp52s0 state: down mac: <filter> 
           Device-2: Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX200 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel port: 3000 bus ID: 35:00.0 
           chip ID: 8086:2723 
           IF: wlp53s0 state: up mac: <filter> 
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 465.76 GiB used: 24.37 GiB (5.2%) 
           ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 980 PRO 500GB size: 465.76 GiB 
           speed: 63.2 Gb/s lanes: 4 serial: <filter> 
Partition: ID-1: / size: 455.29 GiB used: 23.89 GiB (5.2%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/dm-1 
           ID-2: /boot size: 704.5 MiB used: 481.0 MiB (68.3%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p2 
           ID-3: swap-1 size: 980.0 MiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/dm-2 
USB:       Hub: 1-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 1 rev: 2.0 chip ID: 1d6b:0002 
           Hub: 2-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 4 rev: 3.1 chip ID: 1d6b:0003 
           Hub: 3-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 12 rev: 2.0 chip ID: 1d6b:0002 
           Device-1: 3-5:2 info: Elan Micro ELAN:Fingerprint type: <vendor specific> driver: N/A 
           rev: 2.0 chip ID: 04f3:0c63 
           Device-2: 3-7:3 info: Chicony Chicony USB2.0 Camera type: Video driver: uvcvideo 
           rev: 2.0 chip ID: 04f2:b6f9 
           Device-3: 3-10:4 info: Intel type: Bluetooth driver: btusb rev: 2.0 chip ID: 8087:0029 
           Hub: 4-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 4 rev: 3.1 chip ID: 1d6b:0003 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 57.0 C mobo: N/A 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
Repos:     No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list 
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/additional-repositories.list 
           1: deb http: //repository.spotify.com stable non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-chrome.list 
           1: deb [arch=amd64] http: //dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/official-package-repositories.list 
           1: deb http: //packages.linuxmint.com ulyssa main upstream import backport #id:linuxmint_main
           2: deb http: //archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal main restricted universe multiverse
           3: deb http: //archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-updates main restricted universe multiverse
           4: deb http: //archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-backports main restricted universe multiverse
           5: deb http: //security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal-security main restricted universe multiverse
           6: deb http: //archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ focal partner
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/skype-stable.list 
           1: deb [arch=amd64] https: //repo.skype.com/deb stable main
Info:      Processes: 251 Uptime: 36m Memory: 15.43 GiB used: 1.37 GiB (8.9%) Init: systemd v: 245 
           runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 9.3.0 alt: 9 Client: Unknown python3.8 client inxi: 3.0.38 

Does any of that look as though I ought to worry?

Slàinte,
Cass.

[Pjotr]

I didn't install it myself - I am new to Linux, so didn't want to be needing to do any tinkering to make all the laptop's hardware work with the OS.
I bought a laptop that came with Linux pre-installed on it (from an established European vendor of machines that have Linux as their OS). From the list of distros that the vendor offers to pre-install, I selected Mint.

This is the kernel that was installed on the laptop when I got it. All the hardware works.
Would you advise me to install the 5.8.0-48-generic kernel, and disable this one?

In this case: no. Caution is the motto. Strange that an OEM should install such a kernel on your system, though.... Must be some obscure vendor?

I recommend to make a Timeshift snapshot, so that you can roll back easily if needed. Then install the latest official kernel of the 5.8 series, reboot and boot from that official kernel. If everything works fine, and only then, remove the unofficial kernel.

[motoryzen]

I'm willing to bet that whoever solved you that laptop probably used something like Ubuntu Mainline Kernel Installer ( same what I used) or another more manual ...hand's on multi-command method via terminal

[Cassandra]

In this case: no. Caution is the motto. Strange that an OEM should install such a kernel on your system, though.... Must be some obscure vendor?

Am I allowed to name then on here? Or would you like me to PM their name to you instead?

I recommend to make a Timeshift snapshot, so that you can roll back easily if needed. Then install the latest official kernel of the 5.8 series, reboot and boot from that official kernel. If everything works fine, and only then, remove the unofficial kernel.

So, just so that I am sure of what I am doing, I know that I need to

1- create a Timeshift snapshot;

2- go in to 'Update Manager', and instruct it to install 5.8.0-49 (listed as supported until August 2021).

But, once I have done both of those, how do I get my machine to use the 5.8.0-49 kernel instead of the 5.8.7-050807 version that it is currently running?

[Pjotr]

@motoryzen: yes, probably. Not a good thing to do for an OEM. A vanilla upstream kernel, good god.

Note that the official 5.8.0-48 kernel, due to the deviant numbering method used by the Ubuntu devs, is actually based on the 5.8.18 upstream kernel, so it's in fact newer than the OP's 5.8.7 kernel:

Code: Select all

pjotr@Lenovo-IdeaPad-Slim-1-14AST-05:~$  cat /proc/version_signature
Ubuntu 5.8.0-48.54~20.04.1-generic 5.8.18

[Pjotr]

In this case: no. Caution is the motto. Strange that an OEM should install such a kernel on your system, though.... Must be some obscure vendor?

Am I allowed to name then on here? Or would you like me to PM their name to you instead?

Please name (and shame) publicly.

So, just so that I am sure of what I am doing, I know that I need to

1- create a Timeshift snapshot;

2- go in to 'Update Manager', and instruct it to install 5.8.0-49 (listed as supported until August 2021).

But, once I have done both of those, how do I get my machine to use the 5.8.0-49 kernel instead of the 5.8.7-050807 version that it is currently running?

"Older" kernels are tucked away under the Advanced section in the Grub bootloader menu. You might need to make that visible, which can be done like this:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... .html#ID10
(item 10)

[Pjotr]

By the way: I'm getting a bit worried about your sources list, because of the fact that the -49 is the latest official kernel you're seeing. It should be the -48. So there's something rotten in the borough, I'm beginning to suspect....

Let's investigate. Please generate an overview of your system like this:
- Launch a terminal window (this is how to launch a terminal window);
- Make the terminal window full screen, to avoid chopped lines;
- Copy/paste this command into the terminal:

Code: Select all

inxi -Fxpmrz

(if you type: the letter F is a capital letter, and don't omit the space after inxi!)

Press Enter.

Copy/paste the output in your next message.