Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

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GS3
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by GS3 »

AndyMH wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 11:51 am
Twelve years is the "average laptop life"? Really? Where?
I think it came from which UK, vaguely remember reading it. All my thinkpad T430's date from around 2012 and still going strong.

So they still have another three years to go before they make average and then perhaps another six to nine years after that to make up for the ones that failed or were discarded early. Sorry but I do not believe the average life of a laptop is twelve years because there would have to be many 18 to 20 years-old laptops still in use. I have several Dell Latitude D620 still in my "family fleet" and they are ancient by any way you look at it. They are still running Win XP SP3 and I am probably in the very few that are still using this model. If I go to any forum, including this one, and mention the model I am told to dump it before I do anything else. And this is a computer that is a bit over 12 years old. Twelve laptop years are like 96 human years. It may be the upper bound of life expectancy but not the average.

In any case, it is irrelevant to the point of power consumption being lower in laptops. It is not. There is no magic "lower consumption chip" on a laptop. Laptops use less power because to save power they are designed to have less processing power which means lower consumption, that is all. It is not magic. You can just get an older desktop with the same processing power as the laptop and it will cost you less.

Laptops cost more to purchase and to maintain. There is no way around it. If you need the mobility then you pay extra for that convenience but if you do not need the mobility you are paying for something you do not need.

I have directed family members to do cleaning and minor repairs on desktops which they could never do on a laptop. Just last week I directed by videoconference my wife's sister to clean the processor heat-sink and fan of her desktop. There is no way I would have even attempted to do it with a laptop. When we bought the desktops at the beginning of the pandemic I instructed her on how to replace memory modules. Again, no way I would have suggested she do it on a laptop.

Back when I got my Dell D620 the NVidia video chip failed and the cost of the repair made it not worth it. Simple as that. (Many failed and there was a class action.) A relatively young laptop bricked and not worth repairing. Luckily, in one of my trips to China I had it repaired for only a fraction of what it would have cost me at home. It is still going strong. If it had been a desktop replacing the video card would be trivial but with a laptop it did not make sense to pay for it.

I run into this situation often. "Hey, I have a 5~6 year old laptop and X does not work, what do you suggest?" And I suggest they get used to having a laptop where X does not work or they buy a new one.

Laptops have one thing going for them and that is portability but in every other respect they come in behind. They are more expensive to buy and repair, less powerful, less flexible to upgrade and maintain, etc.

On a desktop I can connect a nice 25" monitor and not have to be stuck with the smaller laptop screen.

Again, for me what has always worked best is to have a more powerful and up to date desktop and a much older laptop for travel and backup. It is a good combination that has served me well and I would recommend.
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by jontrv »

For those who need the mobility, but do not need spectacular performance (by laptop standards!), I can suggest an Asus vivobook X512D. Bought one for the wife, works perfectly on Mint 20.1. Performance adequate for her needs, Ryzen 5, 8Gb ram, 256gb nvme.
The only installation problem I had was getting rid of Windows. The Mint installer tried to install alongside Win10, and got it horribly wrong. Gparted wiped the partitions, created new ext4 for the entire disk then Mint installed sweet as a nut.
My only gripe is something she would never notice. The L&R click buttons are zones on the touchpad, and I have not yet found out how to simulate a middle button copy text.

Myself, I have a home-built Ryzen 3 desktop and a 10 year old Acer 5552.
About the only original bits in the Acer are the screen, DVD player and cooling fan. New mb when the graphics failed, cpu now quad core, ram size doubled, Mint 20.1 fresh install.
A tad slow, but these days so am I.
Laptops CAN be repaired, but concur with previous comment, sometimes doing so costs more than it is worth.
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Moem
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by Moem »

GS3 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:48 pm I have directed family members to do cleaning and minor repairs on desktops which they could never do on a laptop. Just last week I directed by videoconference my wife's sister to clean the processor heat-sink and fan of her desktop. There is no way I would have even attempted to do it with a laptop. When we bought the desktops at the beginning of the pandemic I instructed her on how to replace memory modules. Again, no way I would have suggested she do it on a laptop.
It strongly depends on which repairs and which laptop. I have replaced the processor fan on a Thinkpad; it was not exactly rocket surgery. And the memory modules are just 3 screws away. It's at least as easy to get to them as it is in a desktop.
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by spamegg »

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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

Moem wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:35 pm
GS3 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:48 pm I have directed family members to do cleaning and minor repairs on desktops which they could never do on a laptop. Just last week I directed by videoconference my wife's sister to clean the processor heat-sink and fan of her desktop. There is no way I would have even attempted to do it with a laptop. When we bought the desktops at the beginning of the pandemic I instructed her on how to replace memory modules. Again, no way I would have suggested she do it on a laptop.
It strongly depends on which repairs and which laptop...
Exactly! Some are easy to get into and work on, such as the three Lenovo's I've had, and, with the exception of the CMOS battery and half the RAM slots, the System76 Serval that's homesteading in the repair shop right now but others can be a real stinker to get into (like the two Acer and one Asus netbooks I once had). Then there are some that are deliberately made to be impossible for most people to work on (I'm looking at you, Apple!...or is it Apple?).
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by AndyMH »

Sits there looking smug with his thinkpads :wink:
Thinkcentre M720Q - LM21.3 cinnamon, 4 x T430 - LM21.3 cinnamon, Homebrew desktop i5-8400+GTX1080 Cinnamon 19.0
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by DPM »

newlyminted7 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 7:54 pmAnyone have any good recommendations for Linux laptops?
Price range of USD$1-$2k.
I have a Tuxedo Aura 15. 15.6" FHD non-glare, AMD 4700U, iGPU only, based on a Clevo barebone. Spec'ed up to 32GB RAM and 2TB SSD which cost me $1450 (converted from EUR). Mint isn't among their options, but Ubuntu is, so compatibility was easy enough. The only thing where I had to fudge around a bit to get it going with Mint was the RGB keyboard. However, the company is based in Germany, so that may be too much hassle with customs and delivery outside the EU.
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

DPM wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:36 pm
newlyminted7 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 7:54 pmAnyone have any good recommendations for Linux laptops?
Price range of USD$1-$2k.
I have a Tuxedo Aura 15. 15.6" FHD non-glare, AMD 4700U, iGPU only, based on a Clevo barebone...
It's nice to know Tuxedos are based on Clevos. The System76 computer I have is a Clevo and I haven't been too impressed with it's quality.
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by DPM »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:39 pmIt's nice to know Tuxedos are based on Clevos.
Not all of them - the 4x00H ones for example are Tongfang based. These are also sold by XMG Schenker which is a kind of co-company, Tuxedo being the Linux branch.
The System76 computer I have is a Clevo and I haven't been too impressed with it's quality.
When I press they keys a bit harder on my laptop, I do see the keyboard bending a little, but that doesn't bother me. Otherwise, no problems so far. The nice thing is that it's built to order so that CPU, RAM, and SSD are selectable.
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by newlyminted7 »

This is a great discussion, I'm learning a lot, thank you guys and gals.

Anyone own or have experience with https://starlabs.systems/pages/starbook at all (thx spamegg)? I like the fact they are using Coreboot (shouldn't more manufacturers be doing this?? I'm curious...) Although I wish they offered a 15" screen instead of the 14" one.

Also, does IBM own Lenovo? Why do I seem to recall "Lenovo Linux" as a brand some 15-20yrs ago? Also, I thought ThinkPad was an IBM product?

I'm rehabilitating and detoxing from being a many-year Apple user (actually I think it is actually Apple, LadyFitgerald haha), so I can appreciate laptops that are more open and able to have parts replaced on them, as well as be cheaper in price but still just as good in quality. It's amazing (and sad) what they have been able to get away with, really.
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

newlyminted7 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 9:08 pm ...I like the fact they are using Coreboot (shouldn't more manufacturers be doing this??...
Coreboot is a simplified "BIOS" with limited choices. It's a boon for the novice who might need to enter the "BIOS" only once, if at all, during the life of the a basic computer. For more sophisticated systems, it's very limiting. I haven't heard any kind words for Coreboot so I feel it should be limited to simple, bare bones computers.
newlyminted7 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 9:08 pm ...I wish they offered a 15" screen instead of the 14" one...
Heck, I wish more manufacturers would offer more 17" screens with more I/O ports. The trend has been for smaller screens and fewer I/O ports. Many have discontinued SD card readers and offer only microSD readers (one can always insert an SD to microSD adapter into an SD port and just keep it there but to read and SD card would take an adapter that plugs into a USB port, which are becoming increasingly rare.)
newlyminted7 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 9:08 pm ...actually I think it is actually Apple, LadyFitgerald haha)...
I was not trying to be funny. It's positively criminal how Apple has been circumventing and outright violating the Magnuson-Moss and thwarting right to repair.
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by newlyminted7 »

Agreed.

Although, I was only meaning coreboot seems to be good because it allows for an alternative to the black-box BIOS of Intel/AMD.
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by Bolle1961 »

newlyminted7 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 9:08 pm Also, does IBM own Lenovo? Why do I seem to recall "Lenovo Linux" as a brand some 15-20yrs ago? Also, I thought ThinkPad was an IBM product?
IBM sold their personal computer division to Lenovo years ago
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by newlyminted7 »

Bolle1961 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:58 am
newlyminted7 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 9:08 pm Also, does IBM own Lenovo? Why do I seem to recall "Lenovo Linux" as a brand some 15-20yrs ago? Also, I thought ThinkPad was an IBM product?
IBM sold their personal computer division to Lenovo years ago
Ah, okay, that explains it. Thanks. Not a fan of the "red dot" stick thing, though, to be honest. I used a Thinkpad for work back in '04 or so.
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by Moem »

newlyminted7 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 1:02 am Not a fan of the "red dot" stick thing, though, to be honest. I used a Thinkpad for work back in '04 or so.
I am, but don't worry about it. Their laptops also come with a touchpad*, and have for many years.

*which I always immediately disable with extreme prejudice, but to each their own
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by AndyMH »

Moem wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 4:45 am *which I always immediately disable with extreme prejudice, but to each their own
Likewise.
Thinkcentre M720Q - LM21.3 cinnamon, 4 x T430 - LM21.3 cinnamon, Homebrew desktop i5-8400+GTX1080 Cinnamon 19.0
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by newlyminted7 »

spamegg wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:14 pm https://starlabs.systems/
Have you ever used one of these before, spamegg (or anyone else)?

I like the fact they support coreboot (and AMI Aptio V) with some interesting info about each of them:
https://support.starlabs.systems/kb/faq ... s-coreboot

And LVFS:
https://support.starlabs.systems/kb/upd ... m-the-lvfs
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

Moem wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 4:45 am
newlyminted7 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 1:02 am Not a fan of the "red dot" stick thing, though, to be honest. I used a Thinkpad for work back in '04 or so.
I am, but don't worry about it. Their laptops also come with a touchpad*, and have for many years.

*which I always immediately disable with extreme prejudice, but to each their own
AndyMH wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 4:57 am
Moem wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 4:45 am *which I always immediately disable with extreme prejudice, but to each their own
Likewise.
It's nice to know I'm not the only one who despises the *&^%$#@! things.
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by rickNS »

Moem wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:35 pm
GS3 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:48 pm I have directed family members to do cleaning and minor repairs on desktops which they could never do on a laptop. Just last week I directed by videoconference my wife's sister to clean the processor heat-sink and fan of her desktop. There is no way I would have even attempted to do it with a laptop. When we bought the desktops at the beginning of the pandemic I instructed her on how to replace memory modules. Again, no way I would have suggested she do it on a laptop.
It strongly depends on which repairs and which laptop. I have replaced the processor fan on a Thinkpad; it was not exactly rocket surgery. And the memory modules are just 3 screws away. It's at least as easy to get to them as it is in a desktop.
Strongly agree, but in typical GS3 argumentative fashion, who btw, firstly admitted to not having owned one, goes right ahead and argues with every point someone makes about them.

And FWIW I got three T420's that are 10 year old now. They are completely relevant, and capable today, and still will be 5 years from now. NOT the same as something that came with XP on it.
Mint 20.0, and 21.0 MATE on Thinkpads, 3 X T420, T450, T470, and X200
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Re: Any good / recommended Linux laptops?

Post by AndyMH »

rickNS wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:21 pm And FWIW I got three T420's that are 10 year old now.
4 x T430 here :D
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