How do I write to CD or DVD?

[stevegreig]

I have posted this in the beginners section even though I have been using Linux Mint for many years. I have written to discs before both for my data such as documents and photos etc and also for the Linux Mint (and some other distros) OS which I have then successfully installed onto various computers. Having said that I have never understood what I am doing and I can not do any of these things reliably. I simply have never understood what the word burn means and what K3b is all about and what an ISO is.

I have just tried to back up some files in various directories on my Linux Mint computer to a CD and to a DVD. The approach I took was to open two Nemo windows. In one of the windows I opened up the CD or DVD and in the other one I navigated around my computer and transferred directories for backing up to the window opened for the CD. When I had transferred all the directories I wanted to back up I clicked the Blank DVD item under devices in the Nemo window and there was quite a long period of time with a box showing the copying process. Once that was completed I removed the disc. When I put the disc into another computer running Linux Mint there is nothing on it.

I have clearly missed something very basic in my understanding of this. It is surprising to me because back in the 90s I used to use Macs and it seemed very easy to transfer data from disc to computer and vice versa. I certainly don't want to abandon Linux Mint because I am sure it is just me not getting it. Also Macs have probably changed and I might have the same problem plus a lot of others if I did that.

I would be very grateful for any help on this subject. I would be keen to stick with tools which come with the Linux Mint install rather than having to download new software.

[djph]

So burning a CD (or any other optical media, it's essentially all the same) is the process in which you:

1. create a filesystem on the blank media (usually ISO9660, I think? meh, it doesn't really matter)
2. stuff a bunch of data into that filesystem, and create necessary filesystem metadata.
3. finalize the media so that it's usable elsewhere

While these steps can (probably) be done by hand, it's just easier to let something like brasero or k3b (or equivalent CD mastering software) handle all that for you.

If you want drag-and-drop or editable filesystems (CDs are once-and-done), then just get a USB stick. Even small ones these days are twice the size of DVDs (16 GiB on the stick vs. 9.5 GiB on a dual-layer DVD).

[rene]

Going to have to from a technical perspective slightly disagree with djph, somewhat as the conceptually important thing here: a CD/DVD-(R)W is not a random-access device for writing. I.e., you can't just threat it as you would an e.g. HDD or USB-stick. What this means in the context of the above steps 1 to 3 is that in fact a burner application creates the mentioned filesystem (yes, usually of type iso9660; "an iso") specifically not "on the blank media" but on the fly and either in memory or /tmp or some such. Only after it has been fully populated with all you aim to write to the CD/DVD is that entire filesystem written to it as one large blob of binary data. Or, well, conceptually at the very least: generally a burner application will certainly start writing to the CD/DVD before it's in fact yet fully done with generating the filesystem but that's to be considered no more than an optimization.

Commented specifically due to wanting to emphasize the difference between "copying" and "burning" and also because... while I'm unsure where you've copied things now and while certainly it wasn't the CD or DVD, it seems you did copy things somewhere, and that means you'll want to figure out where that ended up lest it take up space on your HDD somewhere forevermore.

If you just install either of e.g. xfburn, brasero or k3b you supposedly won't have trouble figuring out how to use them; not on Linux now so can't step-by-step through. A Mint base install doesn't come with a burner application installed by default these days due to the general demise of optical media but they're available directly from the repositories: just start "Software Manager" and install xfburn for the at the moment simplest one.

[Dark Owl]

finalize the media so that it's usable elsewhere

Can anyone explain what the "finalise" (UK spelling) process is, and why an unfinalised disc should still work locally if it won't work elsewhere?

[rene]

Finalising an optical disc closes that disc: CD/DVD-burning you do per so-called "sessions" and as long as the disc's not full you can add more sessions; who would after all ever be able to fill up that immense 650MB of a wildly expensive CD-R in one go...

These sessions are each followed by a small temporary section with index information, i.e., table-of-contents like information, that a capable burner can not just write but also read back. Hardware intended to read factory-pressed CDs (not generally multi-session but even if they were...) can not however read this; needs the disc fully finalised, in the sense of a proper per-spec table-of-content being written at a proper per-spec location, and that is what said finalisation does. After this done, you cannot write additional sessions anymore.

Multi-session never really became (much of) a thing in practice but see first sentence above for original motivation.

Note; from a Linux command line you'd specify e.g. session=2 as an option to mount -t iso9660 to mount a second rather than first session of a CD.

[ThaCrip]

I personally use Xfburn (i.e. 'sudo apt install xfburn' ) and it just works well for ISO, AUDIO CD, and general data burning. it's lighter than K3b to.

NOTE: you may have a small glitch with it seeing the disc etc, but there is a easy work-around, as with the disc in the drive (decline any popups it shows you) and then on burn screen you basically click the 'refresh' icon and it will see things properly at that point and you proceed to burn.

EDIT: ImgBurn works on Mint v20.x as in short you basically install PlayOnLinux, install Wine v4.0.4 from within PlayOnLinux, change Wine to Windows XP mode and it will work.

[djph]

Going to have to from a technical perspective slightly disagree with djph, somewhat as the conceptually important thing here: a CD/DVD-(R)W is not a random-access device for writing. I.e., you can't just threat it as you would an e.g. HDD or USB-stick. What this means in the context of the above steps 1 to 3 is that in fact a burner application creates the mentioned filesystem (yes, usually of type iso9660; "an iso") specifically not "on the blank media" but on the fly and either in memory or /tmp or some such [...]

Yeah ... I guess I over-simplified it a bit too much, huh?

[rene]

Felt the not random-access thing important here, yes. But what's now important is that this gives me the chance to correct CD/DVD-(R)W to CD/DVD-R(W) and threat to treat...

[JesseRBassett]

You could try xfburn or Brasero for a program to do that...depending on what it is you are trying to write to a dvd/cd

[Dark Owl]

Finalising an optical disc closes that disc: CD/DVD-burning you do per so-called "sessions" and as long as the disc's not full you can add more sessions; who would after all ever be able to fill up that immense 650MB of a wildly expensive CD-R in one go...

These sessions are each followed by a small temporary section with index information, i.e., table-of-contents like information, that a capable burner can not just write but also read back.

So another system would be able to read an unfinalised disc so long as it has a multi-session capable burner? That's never made clear in the dialogue boxes, which generally warn of dire consequences if you don't finalise. Thanks. It would make sense to be able to add (say) photos to a backup as you go instead of waiting until you have a discful.

[djph]

Finalising an optical disc closes that disc: CD/DVD-burning you do per so-called "sessions" and as long as the disc's not full you can add more sessions; who would after all ever be able to fill up that immense 650MB of a wildly expensive CD-R in one go...

These sessions are each followed by a small temporary section with index information, i.e., table-of-contents like information, that a capable burner can not just write but also read back.

So another system would be able to read an unfinalised disc so long as it has a multi-session capable burner? That's never made clear in the dialogue boxes, which generally warn of dire consequences if you don't finalise. Thanks. It would make sense to be able to add (say) photos to a backup as you go instead of waiting until you have a discful.

More that another PC should be able to read a multi-session disc. But there are no guarantees; hence the "look, it is safest to treat these as 700 (CD) - 9400 MiB (Dual-Layer DVD) one-time-write options" warnings and such in burning applications.

[stevegreig]

Thanks for your responses. I think right now I will take the suggestion of using a USB stick instead and see how I get on with that. I feel with computing that I cant fight every battle and on this case admitting defeat (for now at least) is the best option especially if there is a good alternative...

[cliffcoggin]

What an interesting discussion. It has explained much that I never understood about optical discs. I rarely use my disc writer nowadays as I have largely gone over to USB memory sticks which are easier to use, have larger capacities and no moving parts.

[Dark Owl]

...I have largely gone over to USB memory sticks which are easier to use, have larger capacities and no moving parts.

Horses for courses. If you propose to use USB sticks for long-term archive, you're tying up an awful lot of investment while optical discs are cheap. Then you need to consider the data longevity. I fitted two optical drives in my flagship PC: one standard CD/DVD burner and the other a Bluray MDISC capable drive (25 to 100 GB per disc, 1000 years data life). Granted, a 100 GB triple-layer MDISC isn't cheap...

[br1anstorm]

Like @cliffcoggin, I have found this thread interesting and informative. For many years I have relied on burning CDs/DVDs and on USB memory sticks as a way of storing data. I, too, struggled with the single-session/multi-session options and the "finalisation" process when writing to CD or DVD.

Looking back at the OP's question, I think there are some essential principles worth noting.

First, there is a difference between storing data which you are effectively saving as-is and are not going to change; and saving, moving or copying files which you might want to work with or modify in the future.

An example of the former would be making an archived collection of photographs. or building a collection of music tracks. This can conveniently be done by burning them on to a CD or DVD. (In this context I am ignoring the distinction between 'normal' or traditional CD-R or DVD-R which are write-once-only, and Read and Write (RW) disks on which - at least in theory - you can delete and rewrite files.) Let's regard this as essentially an "archiving" exercise. It can't be done by copy-and-paste or drag-and-drop within the File Manager. It requires the use of a software program such as xfBurn, Brasero, or K3b (or if still using Windows, IMGBurn or similar) to create the CD/DVD - ie to get the data on to the disk. I keep a master-set of all my photos on DVD, for example.... and if I want to I can take copies of any of them from the CD/DVD on to my computer's main drive in order to edit them.

Where you want to save data or files which might change or be worked on further, then these days it makes more sense to use a USB memory stick or an additional [external] HDD or SSD. This can be done using copy-and-paste or drag-and-drop. The files you save or copy on to a USB stick or other drive can still be edited or modified.

Backups are a rather different matter. It's true that simply making and saving a duplicate copy of any file or folder is in a sense backing it up. But in the normal use of the term, backup implies saving a "snapshot" of an entire folder, partition, system or complete hard drive, usually as a precaution against corruption or loss, and in a way that enables it to be reinstated. I recommend reading up on AndyMH's manual on his Foxclone software program for a fuller explanation of backing up. There are various other software programs which back up your personal (/home) data, such as BackInTime; programs which back up your operating system (like Timeshift); and programs which make an exact image of your hard disk or partition(s) - like Clonezilla - which you can then restore or clone to another drive or computer. Most of these programs also involve compressing the data - which is why you have to use the same software to make, and then restore, whatever you have backed up.

[rene]

So another system would be able to read an unfinalised disc so long as it has a multi-session capable burner?

As djph said, that is a definite maybe. You'll have to forgive me for not in fact knowing which parts of this are rigidly standardised and which are not (if any); whereas certainly unfinalised CD's made by some burners can be read back by some other burners (which then amounts to them being able to find/read that mentioned temporary index information), and while I expect the compatibility in the case of DVD burners to be greater simply due to them having arrived at the scene much later, certainly it was a least once the case that not every brand could read unfinalised CDs created by just any other brand. As to intra-burner compatbility I'd say you have little option than just try or to shrug and simply heed the warnings and finalise. It's not like CD-Rs are still very expensive after all --- if you can still find any...

[Finston Pickle]

I suppose I am writing to USB when I save files to a USB - I just never thought of it as writing, but as copying and pasting.

[Dark Owl]

I suppose I am writing to USB when I save files to a USB - I just never thought of it as writing, but as copying and pasting.

To a USB what? I presume you mean a USB flash drive ("stick"), but "USB" on its own is meaningless (could be any kind of USB-connected device, be that a floppy drive, HDD, tape, optical...).

As to the copy/paste issue, that's an idea fostered by Microsoft (probably) when they made "paste" a file operation instead of a just a text operation. The original idea (cut & paste) comes from newspaper publishing where the page layouts were literally cut and pasted together before going to press. The analogy becomes incredibly tenuous when extended to the concept of writing a file to a file system (or burning data to optical media).

[YoungElder]

K3b, Brasero, Xfburn are the three apps available. I have tried all of them. Xfburn even though with less options has never failed. K3b and brasero failed and destroyed nearly half of the disks.

[mnbey999]

Hello

I just migrated over to mint and i need to know , how to make my internal drive, a LG mdisc / blue ray burner, type HL-DT-ST BD-RE WH16NS40 burn my mdisc's

it worked fine in windows 7 and still reads the mdisc's in mint but I cannot burn the mdsic,s any help most appreciated, Thanks