Computer upgrade - SSD & what else? [solved]

[rene]

Must say that I would personally certainly not be buying a specifically lower tier 3000 series CPU: that is 2012, nine years old (and 5000 series 2015, 6 years; still too old -- and the mentioned specific model is a notebook CPU).

Shopping in that generation can I feel make sense if you go for one of the top models of the generation but at the low end you compare against e.g. a current https://www.newegg.com/intel-cerleon-g5 ... klink=true

Yes, adds RAM incompatibility with your current RAM --- but in the sense of it adding DDR4-2666 vs DDR3-1333, i.e., significantly better. The integrated graphics on that 10th-Gen Celeron is also much faster (even though it's of course still nothing to write home about in a gaming context or alike). I do think that upgrading to a system with integrated graphics makes more sense than grabbing a new 710 in this day and age, and you do you of course, but I'd personally not enjoy an i3-3220 in 2021...

[HaveaMint]

My thoughts on buying a new PC is if your going to spend money to do this then buy something that will last 10+ years (speed wise) My latest PC purchase I figure will last the rest of my remaining years (speed wise).

Code: Select all

Machine:
  Type: Desktop Mobo: ASRock model: B450M-IBW serial: <filter> 
  UEFI: American Megatrends v: P1.70 date: 12/17/2019 
CPU:
  Topology: 8-Core model: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Zen 
  L2 cache: 4096 KiB 
 Graphics:
  Device-1: NVIDIA TU106 [GeForce RTX 2070] 
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 2.30 TiB used: 178.70 GiB (7.6%) 
  ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Samsung model: SSD 860 EVO 500GB size: 465.76 GiB 
  ID-2: /dev/sdb vendor: Western Digital model: WD10EZEX-08WN4A0 
  size: 931.51 GiB 
  ID-3: /dev/sdc vendor: A-Data model: SU800 size: 953.87 GiB 

[johnlvs2run]

Shopping in that generation can I feel make sense if you go for one of the top models of the generation but at the low end you compare against e.g. a current https://www.newegg.com/intel-cerleon-g5 ... klink=true

Rene, again your comments are extremely helpful to me.
To pair up with the G5925, would this ASRock B560 motherboard be a good choice?
And possibly the Crucial Balllstix 8GBx2 for memory? The three of these together come to 60+123+82=$265. That's fine. I'm open to any other suggestions for comparison, but if this is the best option then I'll go for it.

[Petermint]

Price creep. Spend just a few extra dollars...
The Celeron benchmarks about 3 times the speed of your current processor. The Intel Core i3-10100F benchmarks at about 3 times the speed of the Celeron. $100 instead of $60.

For the programs I run, the extra processor speed would help. For other uses, that $40 is better spent on a faster graphics card or NVMe disks. Both processors are 10th gen which means you miss out on the fastest NVMe speed but you can upgrade in a couple of years when the 11th gen prices drop.

[rene]

To pair up with the G5925, would this ASRock B560 motherboard be a good choice?

I actually think that's a bit more expensive than what you need; how about https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813145298 (GIGABYTE B460M-DS3H V2 at $87)?

The 2x8G DDR4-2666 Crucial Ballistix sounds great; as a 2-DIMM kit it will enable dual channel and Crucial Ballistix is good memory generally; https://www.newegg.com/ballistix-16gb-2 ... klink=true (quick note: the memory will run at 2133 until you enable XMP in the BIOS so be sure to do that).

I should I feel add a general comment, even if not for you than possibly for someone else reading: the G9525 is 2-Core/2-Thread CPU. Will be fine for desktop use and for years to come still; is looking to be a great bargain what with the integrated graphics. Epecially since AMD has been upping the core count considerably with Ryzen a general shopper may however want to go for 4 cores for future proofing. That is; anyone reading should judge context...

[rene]

The Intel Core i3-10100F benchmarks at about 3 times the speed of the Celeron. $100 instead of $60.

$120 I can find minimum but anyway, the 10100F loses integrated graphics and will not "benchmark at about 3 times" the G5925. It's a 4C/8T CPU so in multithreaded workloads it'll certainly be faster, even if not 3 times, but specifically for a desktop the difference will be close to zero.

Which is not to say by the way that the i3-10100 and especially without the F, i.e., with integrated graphics, is not also a great deal if you can find it sub $140 or so; with that same motherboard in fact advised that in another recent thread.

[rene]

To pair up with the G5925 [ ... ]

Mmm. I'm actually having slight issues not pointing out this one instead:

https://www.newegg.com/intel-pentium-g6 ... -_-Product

$72 vs $60. Faster and while 2-Core, now at least 4-Thread. Same board and memory.

[Petermint]

The pricing is all over the place. I looked back at the $100 price. Some sort of one day sale that is now over. Those low end processors are not in any of our local sources. The ones online vary with/without fans, with/without box, from various countries, and the postage makes a huge difference. Some online shops appear to make all their profit by charging $25 for shipping instead of $5. Of the devices mentioned, I would buy whatever is cheapest (including shipping) today then upgrade to the 11th gen when the 12th gen is pushing down the 11th gen prices.

I use Noctua fans for quiet operation so a fan in the box will only stay on long enough to prove the CPU works. For graphics on the desktop, I buy the fastest fanless graphics card and there is usually at least one Asus or similar on sale somewhere. If you are not in a rush, mixing the right on sale price with free shipping deals can save 30% or more.

[johnlvs2run]

I use Noctua fans for quiet operation so a fan in the box will only stay on long enough to prove the CPU works.

I'm planning to replace the one in my power supply with a Nochua fan.

Faster and while 2-Core, now at least 4-Thread. Same board and memory.

Intel Pentium G6405 - $72
Gigabyte B460M DS3H - $87 <-- I agree, this one would be better for me.
Crucial Ballistix 2x8gb - $82 (now out of stock)
GSkill Ripjaws V 8gbX2 - $87
Total = $246

The Intel processors appear to greatly underestimate their power consumption.
This is an important factor for me, because I like low power use, quietness, and cool components.
Several years ago my entire system was using less than a 60 watt average over several hours of usage.

With that in mind, please let me know your opinion of these AMD components for comparison.
AMD Athlon 200 GE - $74
ASUS Prime B450M MB - $80
GSkill Ripjaws V 2x8gb - $87
Total = $241

[rene]

I'm not a big fan of the 200GE I must say. The 200GE is fairly comparable to to the G6405 in the sense that both are 2C/4T chips with 4M L3 cache that use DDR4-2666. The Vega 3 GPU in the 200GE while rather severely neutered is faster than the UHD610 in the G6405 --- but the 3.2GHz base of the 200GE vs 4.1GHz of the G6405 will make latter significantly faster generally, and graphics is supposedly not your focus.

The 200GE is a 2018 chip and was at the time often compared to the G5400; it lagged later by about 20% on average it seems and with the G5400 a 3.7GHz chip it seems the 4.1GHz G6405 could be expected to be 30+% faster than the 200GE; the G6405 is brand spanking new so there's aren't many direct tests out there yet. Well, yes, the 200GE is seemingly a 35W TDP part vs. the 58W TDP spec of the G6405 and undoubtedly more power efficient; if this is an important factor so be it, but I personally wouldn't buy the 200GE; I don't like it; seems a waste of perfectly good Zen silicon -- and it's not like that Pentium would be power hungry anyway.

If you do go AMD that Asus board looks good although I'd myself again go for the Gigabyte B450M-DS3H V2 at $70: https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-b450m-d ... 6V6END7356 even if only due to being a bit of a Gigabyte motherboard fan especially at the low end.

The G.Skill Ripjaws V5 looks good --- or at least the silver variant does: https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288 ... 6820232176

If I would be building that system, it would be

- Pentium Gold G6405 https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16819118251
- Gigabyte B460M-DS3H V2 https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813145298
- G.Skill Ripjaws V 2x8GB DDR4-2666 Silver https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288 ... 6820232176

Although I didn't want to mention it before since you already ordered the SU800 plus that being a very good drive and an utter steal at $35; after you started upgrading motherboard I personally would have advised an NVMe drive such as the Samsung 980 500G at $65: https://www.newegg.com/samsung-500gb-98 ... 6820147803 (the 250G variant is only $10 less). It does 3100/2600 sequential vs 550/550 for a SATA drive and while that sounds more impressive than it is in practice I'd still go for the NVMe drive and send the SU800 back.

But at that point I may be starting to annoy you...

[johnlvs2run]

Rene, you don't annoy me at all. Your comments are greatly appreciated.

Newegg posted the 200GE was first available June 29, 2021, so they can't be trusted.

If I do go that route, which AMD processor would you recommend?
Keep in mind I'm interested in the most efficient power, not the most power possible.
I don't play any video games, just mostly browse web sites and watch videos and movies online.

My current system bogs down at 360p sometimes on videos and is not very good.
However, the terrible Frontier broadband in this area is only 1 mbps, so that's a big factor too.
I would go with Infinity cable, but they have a bad reputation to keep raising rates.
Frontier does the same thing though, no fiber, and it's $50 a month now for only that 1 mbps.

[rene]

If indeed power efficiency is primary than frankly you have at the moment little choice than AMD Zen and given that an e.g. Ryzen 3 3200G is no longer price wise comparable to the range you're shopping in at at the moment close to $200, I'd say you also have little other choice than the Athlon 3000G:

https://www.newegg.com/amd-athlon-3000g ... 000M-001B8

$79 vs. $74 for the 200GE. Still 2C/4T with 4M L3, DDR4-2666 and a 35W TDP but now at 3.5 GHz and with the GPU also clocked slightly higher at 1.1GHz rather than 1.0GHz. The 3000G is moreover OC-unlocked and while you'd undoubtedly not overclock the thing the fact that you can generally means great efficiency and temperatures when you do not. I'm actually starting to warm up to it a bit (pun not intended).

As to board I still advise that Gigabyte B450M-DS3H V2. You could grab an A320 board but it seems you'd be saving $10 at most and I'd not feel that worth giving up the nice B450 chipset. Memory also still same. So my AMD system of choice would be

- Athlon 3000G https://www.newegg.com/amd-athlon-3000g ... 000M-001B8
- Gigabyte B450M-DS3H V2: https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-b450m-d ... 6813145252
- G.Skill Ripjaws V 2x8GB DDR4-2666 Silver https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288 ... 6820232176

Just for the heck of it I'll also replug that 500G Samsung 980 NVMe drive; https://www.newegg.com/samsung-500gb-98 ... 6820147803

[johnlvs2run]

- Athlon 3000G https://www.newegg.com/amd-athlon-3000g ... 000M-001B8
- Gigabyte B450M-DS3H V2: https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-b450m-d ... 6813145252
- G.Skill Ripjaws V 2x8GB DDR4-2666 Silver https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288 ... 6820232176

Rene, thank you very much!
According to a review, the 3000G only uses 2 to 5 watts at idle.
I'll keep this thread updated with progress - and any more questions.

[rene]

One adjustment still after all. The Athlon 3000G is as mentioned unlocked and that includes its memory controller. Zen is sensitive to RAM speed and 3200 is its sweet spot. That is moreover with the integrated Vega 3 graphics (i.e., with shared memory) only extra the case. DDR4-3200 as such advised and while I earlier assumed that would be significantly more expensive, seems it's not at all.

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007611 ... 35&Order=1

I'd definitely grab that (and even if you wouldn't go over 2666; you'd then just have ultra-stable memory).

[ThaCrip]

I already talked about SSD and RAM stuff already so ill talk about something else.... just off the top of my head, if you can get a quad core CPU for very little $, I would seriously consider it for your current setup as it can give a solid performance boost for minimal $ depending on what your doing.

because I went from a new i3-2120, which I had since May 2012(motherboard/CPU/RAM swap), to a used i5-3550 CPU last year from Ebay used for only $20 as that was a solid upgrade for barely any $ and will extend the life of my current motherboard for likely years at least.

I would say that general day-to-day use I don't really notice much between i3-2120 vs i5-3550 (the i5-3550 'might' feel a little snappier but I can't say there is any obvious differences when doing simple tasks like browsing) but when something takes advantage of those extra cores there is a clear performance increase (which is obvious since we are talking 2 cores/4 threads vs 4 cores) and just upgrading from a 2nd gen to 3rd gen CPU I got a bonus of a more efficient CPU in terms of power consumption to from 65w (i3-2120) to 77w (i5-3550) as while the newer CPU seems to use a little more watts in general, it's also noticeably more powerful to and does not use much more watts.

but I guess it depends on whether you want to spend more $ or not etc. but since you said you don't seem to come close to using 8GB of RAM, it's obviously not really worth upgrading RAM in your case. also, if you don't really play games, the GPU probably ain't worth upgrading, especially given GPU prices are too high currently.

so strictly in terms of your current setup listed in the topic... a dual core to a quad core CPU would be a good upgrade but only assuming you get it cheap enough as if the price goes beyond a certain point your better off just saving the $ and putting it towards say a new motherboard/CPU/RAM etc. either way, at this point I can't really see buying a CPU with any less than four cores nowadays unless your trying to make a PC use the least amount of power consumption as possible. but in a more typical use situation, my four core minimum is a pretty good guideline nowadays since it gives you decent processing power when needed. although if one is just browsing the web, just about any half way decent dual core will be 'good enough'. hell, on my old motherboard (ASUS A8N32-SLI), which I had the motherboard since March 2006, and upgraded to it's current dual core CPU (AMD Athlon X2 3600+ (2.0Ghz, but I currently got it overclocked to 2.4GHz)) in the year 2010 (although the CPU is likely first released a fair amount before this time), is still respectable for a general internet machine and the like as while it's definitely slower than my main PC (which is a i5-3550 CPU), it's respectable especially considering it's age for browsing internet and doing anything that's not too CPU heavy. but you can see it's age setting on on some level obviously as there is a decent CPU load when browsing, but it's not quite full on taxing it though yet either, so it's still got some life left in the tank (because when a CPU is hitting 100% fairly routinely you know it's pretty much ancient, but this AMD Athlon X2 3600+ does not do this, thankfully)

just doing a quick look on Ebay for "Socket AM3 quad core cpu" shows some well priced CPU's. call it roughly $15-30 as at that price it might be worth upgrading assuming you can use your current heatsink/fan etc and don't have to invest any more $ (or very little beyond that). because that price range, it might be worth the upgrade. but if it was like roughly $50+, it's probably not worth the upgrade since you would be better off putting the $ into newer technology. but at $15-30, it's just too cheap to pass up giving a solid boost to your older setup

bottom line... if you can get a quad core CPU for your current setup cheap enough (call it around $20) it's probably worth upgrading (unless power consumption is a huge factor for you). otherwise, save the $ and put it towards a future build etc.

Keep in mind I'm interested in the most efficient power, not the most power possible.
I don't play any video games, just mostly browse web sites and watch videos and movies online.

My current system bogs down at 360p sometimes on videos and is not very good.
However, the terrible Frontier broadband in this area is only 1 mbps, so that's a big factor too.

After seeing that, 1mbps is going to be your problem for streaming since my internet line is slow, but not THAT slow as your probably in the ball park of 125-140KB/s TOPS where as I typically float in the 400-420KB/s range TOPS as with my speed I can generally stream (at least one person anyways) on basic YouTube videos well enough at say a more typical SD res of 480p. but at your speed, or lack of it I should say, I suspect even low res videos (say 240/360p) will be pushing it, which seems to be the case given what you say as I assume when you say 'bog down' means the video pauses until it buffers more data at which point the video will resume playback.

plus, my suggestion above (which I typed up before reading the thing I just quoted from you) may not be worth it if your primary concern is CPU watt efficiency in which case what I suggested will make things worse, but it will give you a solid bump on CPU processing power ; but given you said you just primarily browse the internet and play videos/movies then computer processing power does not really matter much in this regard since unless ones CPU is pretty ancient it can easily handle that (except in your case with the slow internet line, but like you say, you can't really do much about it), especially with GPU assisted x264 video playback which puts even less load on CPU.

[johnlvs2run]

just doing a quick look on Ebay for "Socket AM3 quad core cpu" shows some well priced CPU's. call it roughly $15-30 as at that price it might be worth upgrading assuming you can use your current heatsink/fan etc and don't have to invest any more $ (or very little beyond that). because that price range, it might be worth the upgrade. but if it was like roughly $50+, it's probably not worth the upgrade since you would be better off putting the $ into newer technology. but at $15-30, it's just too cheap to pass up giving a solid boost to your older setup
- - -
After seeing - [the internet speed] - 1mbps is going to be your problem for streaming

ThaCrip, that's a great idea checking on Ebay, and the other things you have mentioned.
I'm also trying to contact both Frontier and Xfinity, and it's not so easy to get through to either of them.
Thank you very much for your ideas and suggestions!

[SimonPeter]

SSDs make a lot of programs faster. For example, Firefox writes dozens of little work files and SSDs make that overhead almost disappear.

My FF profile is in RAM -- which is MUCH faster than any sort of disks.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Firefox/Profile_on_RAM

[Reddog1]

Well, I 'upgraded' a dual core to a quad core for $12 on ebay. The machine does everything I want (I also upgraded memory from 4MB to 12MB for $29). The motherboard/bios must be able to accommodate the upgraded processor. A new SSD cost me $60. I don't play games and don't do video editing, but use it as one of my everyday machines. It does all that I want it to do. Another machine I have is an I5 with 8MB of ram that I bought refurbished for $120. It has a 500GB mechanical drive, and it works just fine. It came with W10 pro installed, which I never use. I installed Mint 20 alongside W10 and then installed W10 as a vm, along with a bunch of other vm's. It works fine, and likely will for years, but someday I may add more memory, just because. One of my laptops is a 2008 Apple, core 2 duo that used to be my wife's everyday laptop. I upgraded the 130GB mechanical drive to a 120GB ssd, and the 2MB of memory to 4Mb, all for under $40 on ebay. With Mint 19.3 it works just fine, and probably will for quite a while. You really do not have to spend a lot of money to have an everyday machine. The fly in the ointment is gpu intensive games, especially. If you aren't a gamer and if you don't do high-end video/photo editing, you don't need a really powerful machine. That's the beauty of Linux.

[johnlvs2run]

I'm planning to order these tomorrow, pending input and comments in the meantime.
AMD Athlon 200 GE - $74
ASUS Prime B450M MB - $80
Crucial Ballistix 2x8gb 2666 DDR4 - $82 / Total = $236
Or Crucial Ballistix 2x8gb 3200 DDR4 = $85 / Total = $239

The 3000g benchmarks <- are slightly higher, but the 200ge ratings are better.
Ratings for the ASUS Prime B450M-A are better than for the Gigabyte B450M DS3H.

Both CPUs are stated to work with 2666 DDR4 memory, but will 3200 DDR4 work even better?
Would my 2x4gb of DDR3 1333 be okay temporarily, or would that not be good to use with the upgrade?

[rene]

What do you mean by "ratings"? I would still definitely not get the 200GE; the 3000G is basically a one-and-a-half year newer version of that same chip; a one-and-a-half year better version of that same chip as the fab got more experience churning out Zen silicon. It has the same power specs but being higher clocked that conversely means it's more efficient at the same clocks i.e., at idle.

As moreover noted, (early, especially) Zen is sensitive to RAM-speed and the 200GE is hardware-locked to DDR4-2666 whereas the 3000G can do better; specifically can do DDR4-3200 which is the sweet spot for early Zen.

If you were referring to ratings in user-review context then also note those one and a half years; at the time of the 200GE it was a perhaps better chip speaking relatively to what was available back then than the 3000G was relative to what was available at its release --- but that's not the say the 3000G isn't in fact a fair amount better than the 200GE: it is.

So again, recommendation is to not get the 200GE but in that category the 3000G instead and then pair it with DDR4-3200.

With neither chip you'd be able to use your current DDR3 as in "does not work, period".

As to board; the linked Asus Prime at $80 seems fine but I noticed a few times that you left out the "V2" from my recommendation for the Gigabyte (the V2 features a VRM heat sink over the V1 and while that's not in fact important at the Athlon's power-consumption levels, still nice; the Asus board also has one). More importantly in your context is that you may also have missed it currently being $16 cheaper at $64 than the Asus board. I do note that the Asus board has two USB3 10G/s ports on the back whereas the Gigabyte one has 4 USB3 5 G/s ones; the Asus board is seemingly a bit nicer so boils down to that $16.

1. Athlon 3000G; https://www.newegg.com/amd-athlon-3000g ... -_-Product
2. 2x8G DDR4-3200; Crucial Ballistix at CL16 sounds good: https://www.newegg.com/ballistix-16gb-2 ... 6820164198
3. Either of

Gigabyte B450M-DS3H V2: https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-b450m-d ... klink=true
Asus Prime B450M-A II: https://www.newegg.com/asus-prime-b450m ... 6813119355#

where at +$16 latter board seems a bit nicer. Just don't get the 200GE; it's just about the only objective advise anyone from the internet could give....