Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Quick to answer questions about finding your way around Linux Mint as a new user.
Forum rules
There are no such things as "stupid" questions. However if you think your question is a bit stupid, then this is the right place for you to post it. Stick to easy to-the-point questions that you feel people can answer fast. For long and complicated questions use the other forums in the support section.
Before you post read how to get help. Topics in this forum are automatically closed 6 months after creation.
Minty16
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:31 am

Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by Minty16 »

I know I've only been using Linux a week but every step of the way seems like a slog. Just discovered games that need Wine to run. DL it and nothing happens.
It's like "You wanna do what? Download another package(?)"
"You wanna ask what? join another forum".
And meantime everyone is telling you how easy everything is.
Do you have to have a basic coding knowledge?
I'm not trying to diss everyone coz I can see there's some very hard work goes into this stuff. It just feels like it's not for the average Joe.
Last edited by LockBot on Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Topic automatically closed 6 months after creation. New replies are no longer allowed.
User avatar
Moem
Level 22
Level 22
Posts: 16224
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by Moem »

I have no coding knowledge at all and I do not find it to be a slog. During the first few months, there was a lot to learn. But even that depends on how deep you want to immerse yourself.
My mother switched from Win7 to Linux Mint when she was 78 and she did not find it very hard, but then she doesn't dig very deep, she just uses the OS and the software as they are offered. You could certainly call her an average Jane. Of course, she has help available as she needs it.

And so do you: that's us, right here.
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!
RIH
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2834
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:47 am

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by RIH »

If you like to game then it is either Windows or Linux with Steam.
Wine is not something I would recommend to anyone - as you have discovered for yourself.
If you have non-gaming Windows programs that are a must have then Virtualbox would be my recommendation.

If you don't still need Windows Applications then running Mint is a dream.

Like most things in life, 1 size does not fit all & a bit of intelligent research saves a whole host of disappointments & tool blaming.. :D
Image
Hoser Rob
Level 20
Level 20
Posts: 11806
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:57 am

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by Hoser Rob »

You don't need coding experience, no, but you can't be afraid of using the terminal either. There isn't a GUI solution for everything in Linux.

I wouldn't say it's for the casual user though. There needs to be a bit more involvement than something like WIndows, IMO largely because there are no help lines with paid staffers in Linux unless you buy a Red Hat site license.

However, I don't think many of the people who complain here about the difficulty of installing Linux have ever clean installed Windows either. That's no easier I think.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong - H. L. Mencken
User avatar
Lady Fitzgerald
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 5731
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:12 pm
Location: AZ, SSA (Squabbling States of America)

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

@Minty16 How long did it take you to learn your way around the OS you came from? Since an Linux distro is not your former OS, not only will you have to start over to learn Linux, you will have to "unlearn" a lot of what you learned before Linux. I'm not saying this to discourage you from adopting Linux. I'm just pointing out how you have to approach learning how to use Linux.

It also takes a certain amount of persistence (stubbornness?). I've been using Linux Mint full time now for a bit over a year and a half and I still consider myself to be a Linux newbie but I haven't let that stop me (of course, having inherited stubbornness from my Irish and German ancestors has hurt any).

Again, Linux is not the OS you came from. It may look similar but, under the hood, it's completely different. You will have to adopt to new ways to accomplish what you want and/or need done.

Edit: You might find this video helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJLvyWLxrBA
Jeannie

To ensure the safety of your data, you have to be proactive, not reactive, so, back it up!
ThaCrip
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 989
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:13 pm

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by ThaCrip »

I totally agree with Moem on her (EDIT: sorry for the 'his', since I just tend to assume guys are around here (ill try to remember this in the future, but forgive me if I accidentally say 'his') ;) ) initial reply in this topic since I think that's a great way of putting things!

I can understand why the OP said what he said, since it's obvious Linux is for the most part not Windows level ease-of-use (especially if you plan on going beyond the very basics). but, at least from what I can tell, it's not ridiculously difficult to use either (although I can see why someone coming from Windows might be a bit frustrated with Linux since some of the stuff they may be used to don't work the same etc and you got to re-learn a bit of stuff (a simple example.. drive letters on Windows with C/D/E etc are now pretty much /dev/sda to /dev/sdb to /dev/sdc etc). but I do agree there is a steeper learning curve before your decent enough at things beyond the very basics in Linux vs Windows.

when I switched to Linux Mint full-time in Jan 2019 (I was using Windows stuff since I began using computers in 1995, which I would say is about 3-5 years before computers were more mainstream) there was a initial learning curve and things feel a bit different than Windows, but after a while I got used to it and knew it was likely I would not be going back to Windows at which point (after about a year of using Linux, to make sure I could stick with it) I switched all of my hard drives over from NTFS to EXT4 since EXT4 is faster than NTFS on Linux with file transfers etc (basically on Linux you get max HDD speed with EXT4 unlike NTFS that Windows uses). I basically have three computers (two desktop(one is good, one semi-underpowered)/one laptop(underpowered CPU)) and all three run Mint v20.x series. while my main computer runs Windows 10 well (but I don't have it installed and have not since I dumped it in Jan 2019), the other (desktop(it's motherboard ASUS A8N32-SLI is from basically 2005, but I had it since March 2006)) can't run any windows newer than Win7 (which lost support in Jan 2020, so Mint is pretty much my only real option there whether I like it or not) and the other, which is the laptop, technically works on Windows 10 but it's just too slow to use where Mint runs noticeably better overall as Mint is easier on a already weak CPU (the CPU is hands down the worst part of it currently) as it's okay for light interest use, but anything I am going to spend any length of time on, ill always side with the desktops over a laptop as a general rule (bigger screen/faster etc).

but with that said... I realize it's not possible for everyone to dump Windows for Linux outright, especially if your a heavy gamer (although people have said that Windows games running on Linux have made rather large strides in the last few years or so). or use certain Windows programs that don't work on Linux through Wine.

p.s. for the record... I use Wine (i.e. the proper way to install Wine on Mint is (which is the official position of the Mint team)... 'sudo apt install wine-installer' (you can do this from Software Manager (but may be more confusing on which 'Wine' option to select) but it's probably easier/faster to just type that from terminal unless you type really slowly) mainly so I can run the Windows program 'Foobar2000' (it's great for general music playback and conversion from FLAC to MP3/AAC/Opus etc) even though I do need Wine for occasionally replaying some Windows games I liked in the past as nearly all of the Windows games I want to play, work on Linux through Wine/Lutris etc combo well enough (similar to Windows performance, possibly better, possibly a bit worse) which is easy enough to use once you learn a little.

TIP: if your playing games on Mint using Wine/Lutris, I suggest leaving a terminal window open with 'wineserver -k' as this way if your game happens to freeze on say a black screen or any other random issue out of no where, and it looks like you can't do anything, you just alt+tab over to that terminal window and press ENTER on the keyboard and it will instantly kill the Wine process and then you can resume use if your computer like normal. there might be other ways to properly exit out of wine on a frozen game, but that's the only way I know of that reliably works to where you can resume desktop use like usual and it's simple enough to do.

TIP: another thing I noticed, if I got Foobar2000 running (and I would assume any general Windows program for that matter) and try to load up a game through Wine/Lutris, it does not do anything. so one has to exit Foobar2000, so Wine is not running at all, then load the game through Lutris and it will work as expected basically.

TIP: I just make a entry in Lutris to each games main EXE file where it's previously installed on the hard drive and run them that way. if your running games through Wine/Lutris, I suggest using... https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/wine ... m/releases (currently you want to extract the "wine-lutris-ge-6.12-x86_64.tar.xz" to your "~/.local/share/lutris/runners/wine/" folder then in the Lutris option you can select that 'runner' for use with games. you may not need that 'runner', as yours may work straight up with the Wine/Lutris combo, but it allows me to play a game (i.e. Mafia: Definitive Edition) that I could previously not play and had to use Win10 temporarily to play it (currently it does not work on RDR2 (Red Dead Redemption 2), as it specifically says on that github website I linked to, but I suspect it will in the not too distant future given the person who made that runner contributed towards Steam which I heard RDR2 works on there). NOTE: I only briefly tested Mafia: Definitive Edition with that 'runner', but performance was good in the intro etc (seemed similar to Win10 performance, give or take). I plan on replaying it, which will be my first playthrough on Linux (but 2nd playthrough in total), probably over the next few months or so tops. but I should be good. NOTE: I am using a i5-3550 CPU paired with a Geforce 1050 Ti 4GB GPU.

TIP: I noticed when playing through Mafia II: Definitive Edition recently that 'Esync = on' (which it claims can help performance in some cases(?)) kills performance (it's significant and obviously noticeable since it goes from pretty much unplayable to very smooth on that setting alone) as you definitely want that OFF (but I am pretty sure it's off by default, so you ain't gotta worry about it ;) ).

I know this looks complicated to the average person.... but good news is after initial setup, things are pretty much done through GUI(graphic user interface) which should be simple enough for the common person.
Last edited by ThaCrip on Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:38 am, edited 7 times in total.
MainPC: i5-3550 (undervolted by -0.120v (CPU runs 12c cooler) /w stock i3-2120 hs/fan) | 1050 Ti 4GB | 16GB (2x 8GB) DDR3 1600Mhz RAM | Backups: AMD E-300 CPU (8GB RAM) / Athlon X2 3600+ CPU (@2.3GHz@1.35v) (4GB RAM) | All /w Mint 21.x-Xfce
User avatar
Flemur
Level 20
Level 20
Posts: 10097
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:41 pm
Location: Potemkin Village

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by Flemur »

Minty16 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:46 am I know I've only been using Linux a week but every step of the way seems like a slog. Just discovered games that need Wine to run. DL it and nothing happens.
Try running linux without wine, it's a lot easier.

If you really want to use wine, read the release notes for your distro about installing wine; installation is very simple if you don't follow the winehq advice for ubuntu.

Edit: some linux stuff is pretty silly, check out the complicated, convoluted user-hostile commands in this thread about reporting memory size:
viewtopic.php?f=213&t=353456
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
Your data and OS are backed up....right?
User avatar
Moem
Level 22
Level 22
Posts: 16224
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by Moem »

Hoser Rob wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:16 am You don't need coding experience, no, but you can't be afraid of using the terminal either
Sure you can. I am. And I manage just fine.
Rarely, I have to copypaste something into the terminal... that can be learned, even if you're afraid of it. There is no requirement that you enjoy it!
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!
rene
Level 20
Level 20
Posts: 12240
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by rene »

Linux is an operating system developed, if you'll allow me, "Just for Fun". I.e., developed by and primarily for those for whom the computer itself rather than (just) anything you might do with it is interesting. Among those for who it is not, those that consider the computer a mere tool, there is the unspoken but omni-present assumption however that the computer must be a mere tool, at the very least as some sort of final goal.

Seeing as how those that develop "Linux" for the most part do not agree: yes, it will always be a slog using Linux to those that feel the computer necessarily a mere tool (or at the very least I damn well hope so...)
Last edited by rene on Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
ThaCrip
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 989
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:13 pm

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by ThaCrip »

Moem wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:02 am
Hoser Rob wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:16 am You don't need coding experience, no, but you can't be afraid of using the terminal either
Sure you can. I am. And I manage just fine.
Rarely, I have to copypaste something into the terminal... that can be learned, even if you're afraid of it. There is no requirement that you enjoy it!
Yeah, terminal is not always required, but depending on what someone does, they will probably have to use it eventually, at least occasionally, unless they are more inline with that 'very basic user' standard which basically just loads up the browser and other very basic pre-installed programs and that's about it.

p.s. in fact, since I know I won't remember everything... I tend to log important stuff to a text file for future use (although stuff entered in the terminal people can review their past commands by loading up terminal and pressing UP (or DOWN) in the terminal window and it will scroll through past terminal entries). so when I clean install Mint, I can use that text file as a guide to get everything reconfigured to my liking which will save me a bit of time of having to look up how to do certain things all over again. but I guess the better someones memory to remember these things, the simpler Linux will be for them. but not everyone can recall a bunch of that random stuff, especially if it's not something they use fairly routinely, people have a tendency to forget a lot of things.
rene wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:22 am Linux is an operating developed, if you'll allow me, "Just for Fun". I.e., developed by and primarily for those for whom the computer itself rather than (just) anything you might do with it is interesting. Among those for who it is not, those that consider the computer a mere tool, there is the unspoken but omni-present assumption however that the computer must be a mere tool, at the very least as some sort of final goal.

Seeing as how those that develop "Linux" for the most part do not agree: yes, it will always be a slog using Linux to those that feel the computer necessarily a mere tool (or at the very least I damn well hope so...)
Yeah, I don't see Linux becoming Windows level of user-friendly for the foreseeable future as it's like some people(?) seem to insist on making things more complicated than they need to be. but seems like they could continue to have things like they are, for those who want terminal etc, but at the same time keep things average person friendly enough to with a GUI. but I guess things are progressing in this regard, even though slowly.
MainPC: i5-3550 (undervolted by -0.120v (CPU runs 12c cooler) /w stock i3-2120 hs/fan) | 1050 Ti 4GB | 16GB (2x 8GB) DDR3 1600Mhz RAM | Backups: AMD E-300 CPU (8GB RAM) / Athlon X2 3600+ CPU (@2.3GHz@1.35v) (4GB RAM) | All /w Mint 21.x-Xfce
ivar
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 617
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:30 pm
Location: far north

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by ivar »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:18 am @Minty16 How long did it take you to learn your way around the OS you came from? Since an Linux distro is not your former OS, not only will you have to start over to learn Linux, you will have to "unlearn" a lot of what you learned before Linux. I'm not saying this to discourage you from adopting Linux. I'm just pointing out how you have to approach learning how to use Linux.
my experience too. been a windows user for 30 years. When my win10 home laptop started crapping out in feb. I decided to try out how it would be to switch over to Mint, just as an experiment. So far, so good, It took a couple weeks to readjust my old ingrained windows habits.
I only fire up my win10 work laptop to connect to work to do specific stuff.

Being around almost all the windows versions sine the 90's, I'd say I found the transition from win10 to Mint less frustrating than say, XP to Vista or Win7 to the horrid Win8 UI
DAMIEN1307

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

(of course, having inherited stubbornness from my Irish and German ancestors has hurt any).
Jeannie, Be kind to yourself...The word "Stubborn" has such an ugly connotation...We, of the Irish/English/Germanic derivation are NEVER stubborn.

We prefer it to be said that we are merely, "Steadfast and Unmovable"...lol...Sounds so much nicer, doesn't it ???...lol...DAMIEN
missmoondog
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 744
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:17 am

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by missmoondog »

Moem wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:02 am
Hoser Rob wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:16 am You don't need coding experience, no, but you can't be afraid of using the terminal either
Sure you can. I am. And I manage just fine.
Rarely, I have to copypaste something into the terminal... that can be learned, even if you're afraid of it. There is no requirement that you enjoy it!
been using mint full time for a couple years now and as far as coding or using the terminal goes, i despise both, although you can run into a few situations where you have to look up a command. not a big thing though.

not a gamer at all, but i always thought you needed steam and not wine to play games?
sarge816
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:04 pm

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by sarge816 »

Honestly, it's just easier to dual-boot Windows/Linux if you really want to game. I hate steam, and plus there are plenty of games not available on the platform. I slogged through Wine for many years, finally gave up and dual-boot Windows. I only use it for games, but it makes life much, much easier.
Last edited by sarge816 on Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Lady Fitzgerald
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 5731
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:12 pm
Location: AZ, SSA (Squabbling States of America)

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

DAMIEN1307 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:40 am
(of course, having inherited stubbornness from my Irish and German ancestors has hurt any).
Jeannie, Be kind to yourself...The word "Stubborn" has such an ugly connotation...We, of the Irish/English/Germanic derivation are NEVER stubborn.

We prefer it to be said that we are merely, "Steadfast and Unmovable"...lol...Sounds so much nicer, doesn't it ???...lol...DAMIEN
Oh, I was being kind to myself. :wink: And, at my age and weight, unmovable is a given. :?
Jeannie

To ensure the safety of your data, you have to be proactive, not reactive, so, back it up!
User avatar
Lady Fitzgerald
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 5731
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:12 pm
Location: AZ, SSA (Squabbling States of America)

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

ivar wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:38 am ...Being around almost all the windows versions sine the 90's, I'd say I found the transition from win10 to Mint less frustrating than say, XP to Vista or Win7 to the horrid Win8 UI
I found the transition from XP to Win 7 (I skipped Vista) to be surprisingly easy. For me, Win 8 and Win 10 were never an option. Going from Win 7 to Mint 19.1, while scary and challenging, was not nearly as bad as I had though it was going to be.
Jeannie

To ensure the safety of your data, you have to be proactive, not reactive, so, back it up!
Hoser Rob
Level 20
Level 20
Posts: 11806
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:57 am

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by Hoser Rob »

Moem wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:02 am
Hoser Rob wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:16 am You don't need coding experience, no, but you can't be afraid of using the terminal either
Sure you can. I am. And I manage just fine.
Rarely, I have to copypaste something into the terminal... that can be learned, even if you're afraid of it. There is no requirement that you enjoy it!
At the risk of seeming pedantic, isn't copy/paste into the terminal using the terminal?

I had enough CLI in the 80s so I don't use it unless I need to generally. Though lately I've been using sox in the terminal to convert 24 bit audio files to 16 bit. It's actually easier that way.

Unless you're going to run a GUI-less server you don't actually need to be a CLI expert.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong - H. L. Mencken
User avatar
Moem
Level 22
Level 22
Posts: 16224
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by Moem »

Hoser Rob wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:51 am
Moem wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:02 am
Hoser Rob wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:16 am You don't need coding experience, no, but you can't be afraid of using the terminal either
Sure you can. I am. And I manage just fine.
Rarely, I have to copypaste something into the terminal... that can be learned, even if you're afraid of it. There is no requirement that you enjoy it!
At the risk of seeming pedantic, isn't copy/paste into the terminal using the terminal?
It is! And I never said that I don't do it occasionally. Just that I'm afraid of it. :wink:
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!
gittiest personITW
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 4289
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 4:27 pm

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by gittiest personITW »

Minty16 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:46 am I know I've only been using Linux a week but every step of the way seems like a slog. Just discovered games that need Wine to run. DL it and nothing happens.
It's like "You wanna do what? Download another package(?)"
"You wanna ask what? join another forum".
And meantime everyone is telling you how easy everything is.
Do you have to have a basic coding knowledge?
I'm not trying to diss everyone coz I can see there's some very hard work goes into this stuff. It just feels like it's not for the average Joe.
Minty,
I find Win10 makes me more angry when I try to use it than its worth - I genuinely can't believe that people would be happy using that OS. Can't see how or why.
Also, when I had Windows running on my systems, I found that previous experience with DOS came in very handy to do things when Windows GUI didn't want to or stopped working properly. 'cmd' was like a travel spade - handy to get you out of little holes. Terminal - for me, I'll only use it if I really have to and even then it is mostly copy/paste what other people have come up with.
Although I must admit I had a soft spot for Win7.
User avatar
Lady Fitzgerald
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 5731
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:12 pm
Location: AZ, SSA (Squabbling States of America)

Re: Will it always be a slog using Linux?

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

gittiest personITW wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:32 pm ...Terminal - for me, I'll only use it if I really have to and even then it is mostly copy/paste what other people have come up with...
I often take a step further. The five terminal commands I use most frequently have aliases that are two to four characters long.
gittiest personITW wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:32 pm ...Although I must admit I had a soft spot for Win7.
You and me three until Microsoft started messing with it with sneaky attempts to get me to downgrade to Win 10 and frequent, broken updates (it got so bad, I stopped updating the last two years or so).
Jeannie

To ensure the safety of your data, you have to be proactive, not reactive, so, back it up!
Locked

Return to “Beginner Questions”