Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sdd?

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Zeus_1347
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Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sdd?

Post by Zeus_1347 »

I am fed up of background windows processes draining my laptop battery and heard that linux is better. But I need windows for gaming and for other proprietary applications.

I am planning on upgrading to windows 11 when the upgrade is available. But i have heard that windows upgrades can cause issues with the bootloader and installing Mint on a separate drive is better than installing on the same drive as windows. why does bootloader not get affected when linux is installed on a separate drive?

My laptop has a 16 gb ram and 500gb ssd with 1tb hdd. how is the performance of using linux on a hdd? is it worth it? if i am installing mint on the hdd, i would create a partition and install mint on it and then create a new partition and use the new partition to store common files between the OS'. will this work

Also what i have mentioned in the title, will that work? as the bootloader is on a separate drive, it cant get affected right?

PS: i am a meganoob so im sorry if i made any mistake.
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Re: Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sd

Post by SimonPeter »

Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sdd?
I suppose you want to install something like this:
HDD : GRUB(bootloader) + Windows
SSD : Linux ( / and /home )

I think that would work if you choose to install GRUB on the HDD and / and /home on the SSD.

But, your layout has some disadvantages:
1) You should plug both the HDD and the SSD to boot Linux.
2) Windows throws away GRUB while installing / "updating" Windows. (GRUB bootloader is on the same disk as Windows)
3) Unless both the HDD and SSD are plugged in, Linux can't update its GRUB bootloader when you update Linux.

A better (and much more common) layout is :
HDD : Windows only
SSD : Linux only ( GRUB bootloader + Linux / and /home )

or

SSD : Windows only
HDD : Linux only ( GRUB bootloader + Linux / and /home )

Be sure to physically remove the Windows disk (or uncheck its ESP flag from the EFI system partition via GParted) while installing Linux.

Also, be sure to remove the Linux disk while updating / installing Windows (or else, Windows will throw away your GRUB)

Zeus_1347 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:39 pm I am planning on upgrading to windows 11 when the upgrade is available. But i have heard that windows upgrades can cause issues with the bootloader and installing Mint on a separate drive is better than installing on the same drive as windows. why does bootloader not get affected when linux is installed on a separate drive?
Windows doesn't respect other OSes and just throws away any other bootloader (like GRUB) it finds , while installing / "updating" Windows.
GRUB from linux has a great respect for the users' choice and other OSes. It shows a choice of which OS to boot each time it boots up.
Zeus_1347 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:39 pm how is the performance of using linux on a hdd? is it worth it?
Yes. Linux performs well on both HDDs and SSDs. But, SSDs always have superior performance.
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Re: Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sd

Post by AndyMH »

I am planning on upgrading to windows 11 when the upgrade is available.
I'm not sure what win11's TPM requirements will do to your ability to install/boot mint.
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Re: Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sd

Post by Zeus_1347 »

I suppose you want to install something like this:
HDD : GRUB(bootloader) + Windows
SSD : Linux ( / and /home )
I cant switch windows to the hdd because it comes preinstalled and also i will need the speed of ssd for gaming and other things.
I feel like you misunderstood what i wanted to ask. I meant a configuration like this:

SSD: Windows(preinstalled) + linux root and home directories(in a separate partition on the SSD)
HDD: Linux GRUB/Bootloader(on a partition)+ a storage partition to store files to be accessed by both Windows and Linux(using ntfs)

This way i get the benefit of Linux running on the ssd and Grub/bootloader is separate and cannot be affected by windows updates.
Can this work? i cant find anything about configurations like this.
Also, be sure to remove the Linux disk while updating / installing Windows (or else, Windows will throw away your GRUB)
I cant remove drives from my laptop while installing linux. but i will be careful and i watched a lot of tutorials on making partitions and installing.
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Re: Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sd

Post by AndyMH »

SSD: Windows(preinstalled) + linux root and home directories(in a separate partition on the SSD)
HDD: Linux GRUB/Bootloader(on a partition)+ a storage partition to store files to be accessed by both Windows and Linux(using ntfs)

This way i get the benefit of Linux running on the ssd and Grub/bootloader is separate and cannot be affected by windows updates.
Can this work? i cant find anything about configurations like this.
Yes you can. Assuming you are booting UEFI you would need to create an EFI partition on your HDD and before installing mint disable the esp & boot flags on the EFI partition in your SSD. Re-enable them after installation. Create your partitions in advance with gparted (copy in the mint install iso), ext4 for your / partition (and /home if you want a separate /home partition). EFI partition needs to be fat32, size 100MB with the flags esp & boot set.

Personally I wouldn't bother, not saying it won't happen, but win updates wiping grub has not happened to me. Win and mint installed on a single drive. Your 'shared' data partition needs to be formatted ntfs. If you want mint to be able to write to that partition you need to turn off fast boot in win.
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Re: Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sd

Post by Zeus_1347 »

Personally I wouldn't bother, not saying it won't happen, but win updates wiping grub has not happened to me. Win and mint installed on a single drive.
windows normally wipes grub when windows upgrades to a new version like windows 8->10 or 10->11. so it could happen in the future right?
Yes you can. Assuming you are booting UEFI you would need to create an EFI partition on your HDD and before installing mint disable the esp & boot flags on the EFI partition in your SSD. Re-enable them after installation. Create your partitions in advance with gparted (copy in the mint install iso), ext4 for your / partition (and /home if you want a separate /home partition). EFI partition needs to be fat32, size 100MB with the flags esp & boot set.
So using this method, grub cannot be affected by windows? Also how do i disable esp and boot flags? \

Also i can make the shared data partition after successfully installing linux right?
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Re: Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sd

Post by AndyMH »

Zeus_1347 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:21 am So using this method, grub cannot be affected by windows? Also how do i disable esp and boot flags? \
In gparted, right click on the EFI partition and 'manage flags'
Workspace 1_012.png
I can't guarantee that windows won't screw it up, but very very unlikely.
Also i can make the shared data partition after successfully installing linux right?
Yes, you can create your shared data partition on the HDD after you have installed mint. gparted is the standard linux partition editor, straightforward to use. While it is on the mint iso, when you install mint, it does not install gparted by default. You can find it in software manager. Also note that you cannot change a mounted partition (see the key symbol against some of the partitions in the screenshot). You have to unmount it first (right click - it's another option on the right click menu).
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Re: Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sd

Post by Zeus_1347 »

Thanks a lot .
What does boot and esp flags do?
Also i just checked, gparted is a Linux only program. Is changing flags necessary? i havent seen any guide where they do that.
I tried finding options to change flags on Windows Drive Manager but i couldnt find any.
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Re: Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sd

Post by SimonPeter »

Zeus_1347 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:45 am What does boot and esp flags do?
It means we're marking that that partition is the EFI System Partition (ESP).
The EFI firmware looks for that flag and loads the EFI files from the ESP.

The ESP is a small FAT32 partition with EFI boot files in its "EFI/" folder.

You can read more at https://www.rodsbooks.com/linux-uefi/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFI_system_partition
Zeus_1347 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:45 am Also i just checked, gparted is a Linux only program. Is changing flags necessary? i havent seen any guide where they do that.
I tried finding options to change flags on Windows Drive Manager but i couldnt find any.
Flags are some sort of attributes given to the partition. It gives some information about what that partition is for.
Almost all modern OSes can understand partition flags, but GParted allows you to edit them easily.
eg: the boot and esp flags show that it is an ESP. (windows is also aware of this -- it won't mount the ESP like other FAT32 partitions, because it sees those flags)

Basically, the boot and esp flags tell the EFI firmware to look for EFI boot files in that partition (the ESP)
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Re: Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sd

Post by AndyMH »

Zeus_1347 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:45 am What does boot and esp flags do?
Tells the system that this is the partition that contains the bootloader(s).
Also i just checked, gparted is a Linux only program. Is changing flags necessary? i havent seen any guide where they do that.
I tried finding options to change flags on Windows Drive Manager but i couldnt find any.
Yes, you were the one that wanted to put grub on your HDD. There is a bug in the installer - it will put grub on the first EFI partition it finds irrespective of what you tell it. Hence disabling the flags on the EFI partition on your SSD. I can't comment on what you have seen elsewhere but what you asked to do is not 'normal' - / on the SSD and grub on the HDD.

Why would you want to use 'Windows Drive Manager' when I suggested gparted?
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Re: Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sd

Post by Zeus_1347 »

AndyMH wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:11 pm Why would you want to use 'Windows Drive Manager' when I suggested gparted?
Im actually on windows 10 so i have to use Windows Drive Manager to partition drives.
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Re: Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sd

Post by AndyMH »

No you don't, download the mint iso, burn it to a stick, boot from it and gparted is on it. I only ever use win's disk management tools to shrink the win C: partition to create space before installing mint.
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Re: Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sd

Post by Zeus_1347 »

I thought any changes made while live booting Linux is not saved. Thanks i will try this.
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Re: Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sd

Post by decrepit »

Zeus_1347 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:25 am I thought any changes made while live booting Linux is not saved. Thanks i will try this.
No changes to the live media are saved, but changes to the host computer can be.
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Re: Can i install bootloader/grub while dual booting on windows laptop on a separate hdd and install root and home on sd

Post by SimonPeter »

AndyMH wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:44 pm I only ever use win's disk management tools to shrink the win C: partition to create space before installing mint.
Almost the same here.
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