~20 installs and a week later, ATI and Wine problems still

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~20 installs and a week later, ATI and Wine problems still

Postby FireBreath » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:43 pm

Hey Mint Community :)

Happy to be here, love the support on the forums, great product that Clem has spit out here.

To start, I should say that I can't totally consider myself a total Linux noob, a few years back I did run a redhat box (can't remember what version) in my basement, hosted a fileserver and had something to log into from college to access my text based centericq (I see centerim is still on the packages list, woohoo). I didn't mess at all with X, and never used it as my main pc, it was just a cool server to tinker with, and when things got rough, I had a linux guru friend who could telnet in and fix what I broke :)

With my XP installation spanning 3 partitions, a start menu I can't view totally in 1024x768 (it spans 6 or 7 columns... lol), and a horrible mess ahead of me to reformat and reorganize, I decided it might be a better move to pick up Linux again. I had heard through the grapevine that ATI driver support was drastically improving (all my systems have ATI cards) and that Mint was a good solution for those that wanted media support out of the box, so off I went.

I installed it both on my laptop that I take to work (I do tech support, and have time between calls/issues to tinker with stuff), and on my home desktop. Laptop is an HP with an Intel chip and intel graphics, desktop is an AMD Barton 2500+ with an ATI X1600 512mb AGP. [[on a side note, I constantly have people hovering around me at work going IS THAT VISTA?!!? OMGZ!!!, and have 4 coworkers now that have Mint on their laptops too, constantly asking me questions, it's blind leading the blind sometimes]]

The laptop experience has been much smoother than the desktop's, mainly due to the support for intel graphics and the lack thereof for ATI (I'm hearing there's a solution with older drivers that might work, but the newest 8.42.3 is just horrible with Compiz turned on.. which is one of the features I was looking forward to).

On both however, I've gotten to the point a few times (stumbling around configuring stuff, at one point before I realized what I was doing my xorg.conf was 8-9 pages long, had tons of repeated and conflicting info, and I had no good backup) where the system was mashed up to the point where I'd get frustrated and just wipe the partition, and reinstall. Furthermore I've ran into other problems messing with windows utilities that have wiped out Grub or messed it up so it won't start, and in my noobness I've just reinstalled the entire OS rather than search for a way to fix grub thru the liveCD.

Now somewhat comfortable with navigating the GDM mint setup, I'm still finding myself spending more time in Windows (like right now) than in Mint. Main reason for this is the ATI issue. I've sifted through endless forum posts about how to properly install the ATI drivers and get them to a point where they work nicely, and have run into so much conflicting information and confusing walkthroughs that I've about given up. My main goal here is to have Compiz enabled, be able to watch videos at the same time, and to be able to scroll in firefox without it being choppy. (videos have big black chunks tearing through the whole view every couple frames, and it's very jittery. plays perfectly with compiz turned off. firefox scrolling is very very choppy and slow, flies like the wind with compiz turned off). I have a strange feeling the answer here might be "wait for better drivers out of ATI", but I'm hoping somebody has experience with ATI cards and can point me in the right direction. (conversely on the laptop, I have none of these issues, but have less desire for flashiness on my work laptop).

The second issue, is I watch alot of internet TV, mainly thru TVUPlayer (http://www.tvunetworks.com) which is a P2P tv app. It has no linux port, so I've looked into running it on Linux, which led me to this little walkthru: http://tech.mikelopez.info/2006/10/19/f ... -on-linux/
He describes running it through Wine, and having IE6 setup, and a few other things (like Media Player 9).
(lol, few days into Linux and he's already trying to make it windows... but anyway)
This really leads me to a question about Wine. Whenever I run it, programs will generally open up, but their fonts will be all messed up, things will be overlapping, borders are shifted out of place, images don't quite line up, the clickboxes for buttons aren't always over the actual button, etc. Screenshots I see from Wine program installation guides have it looking.. like Windows. Mine looks like Linux trying to run Windows, and making an honest attempt, but it looks like crap. Is there something special Mint is missing to have Wine run "normally?". Not sure if I'm phrasing the question correctly, but all of my attempts to get TVUplayer working have ended in some Wine error or mashup that I haven't seen in any walkthrough, so it feels like I'm missing something vital.
(answer for this might boil down to "wait for a TVUplayer linux port" (or somebody might have an alternative?) or "stop trying to turn Mint into Windows", but I'd hope that Wine under Mint might look a little better than it does for me)

[will provide screenshots once I figure out how, heh]

Sorry for the long spam,

[ps: Should I try Celena instead? I was operating under the assumption that I wanted the newest in order to be best suited to use the newest ATI drivers. These drivers seem to be not working out as I hoped though, but maybe Celena would handle them better]

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Re: ~20 installs and a week later, ATI and Wine problems still

Postby Noob Saibot » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:00 pm

I can't help you with wine, but I can tell you that you should try to install Celena, remove envy and download/install the latest envy and you might have better results with beryl. It seems to work out better than 4.0 for my hardware, I have an integrated ati radeon x200.
Enjoying the Mint Experience
"(to touch the earth is to have harmony with nature)" -hippy

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Re: ~20 installs and a week later, ATI and Wine problems still

Postby Dov » Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:25 am

Hey Saibot. I hope I've got a couple of solutions for you.

Firstly on the GRUB issue. Grub has it's own way of doing things which need to be understood. The best tool for changing the GRUB master boot record etc is Super Grub Disk available for download at http://supergrub.forjamari.linex.org/?section=download.

With the ATI drivers and Beryl, why are you still playing with old Beryl? Compiz-Fusion is the go. I have it working well on my Ubuntu Gutsy install with my ATI Radeon Xpress 1150. I use the fglrx drivers available from the Ubuntu repositories and the XGL package also. Hopefully you can glean some instructions from this site http://www.ubuntu1501.com/2007/11/compiz-fusion-with-xgl-in-gutsy.html. The latest ATI drivers suck big time and will cause you a great deal of heartache.

On configuring everything. WHY? These days you shouldn't really have to do much manual configuration aka. playing with conf files. It's generally better to go with the graphical admin tools provided for you. Less room for error. Keep it simple and keep it sweet and most things should work out of the box just like in Ubuntu.

What are you actually trying to install under WINE? I've used wine for a couple of years now and have had some great successes - and some failures. It does sound however that the problems you are having may be related to your video drivers.

Re. fonts in Wine. Try installing ies4linux. It will install all of your genuine Windows fonts. There is a trick though. Don't try and get it to install under your normal .wine folder, but let it install where it will. Then bring up two nautilus windows, one with you .wine folder and one with the .ies4linux folder, and just copy all the extra files in the ies4linux install folder's copy of Wine into you main Wine installation.

The next thing to try is to up the resolution in winecfg for Wine apps. It seems to set itself by default to use low resolution.

Hope this helps you.

If you have further problems, please post them.


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Re: ~20 installs and a week later, ATI and Wine problems still

Postby RotWayDown » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:23 pm

Hey Fire, I have similar problems and even though I cannot assist you (due to my lack of linux overall) I decided to ask for similar support. I recently dumped windows for linux (probably the third time) and due to my "noobness" as well, I have having trouble getting the ATI drivers to install over the mesa ones.

Firstly let me let everyone know, I use slackware (I think version 9 or so) for a brief time until I was too illiterate with it that I gave up. I then recently got sick of microsoft again and put Mint 3.1 (celena) on my desktop which is what I am using now (horray for USB wireless being plug-n-play =). I tried using Mint 4.0 but no matter what I tried, I would get the login screen, no desktop with an install icon. So of course, no login command would work that I could think of. As for my knowledge, I could hardly change directories accurately to navigate the system but in the past few days of practice, I have been working on my xorg.conf file, trying to build a compatible ATI package from the installer, enabled the restricted driver from the restricted interface, and even though it says my ATI driver is operational, I still cannot get the drivers to install over the mesa ones.

I play World of Warcraft (yeah I know spare me the "haha! dork!" ) and obviously it needs direct rendering enabled, well the mesa drivers won't allow this.

That link will show you the mesa drivers installed and at the top that direct rendering is off. I have tried as well what all the other forums suggest and even read as much as I could on the Ubuntu forums. I don't want to have to keep partitioning my drive with Windows and what not just to get the features to work. I have a Radeon 9700 Se Pro (256 mb ddr 400 mhz core clock).

Fire, I get the same video issues as you, choppy scrolling (sometimes) and choppy video when I am running firefox or totem (xine wouldn't work right for some reason, one problem at a time).
Try running the command in terminal "glxinfo" and see if your ATI card is running the mesa drivers as well. You may be having the same exact driver conflict I am having and if you are, maybe we can both find a solution to at least that.

Also, my last question, is in the ATI installer, I am instructed to build a package for my distro so the drivers will be compatible. Ubuntu is the closest match but there is like edgy, fiesty and I can't remember the rest. I am unsure as to which package I should generate that MIGHT work for mint.

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Re: ~20 installs and a week later, ATI and Wine problems still

Postby RotWayDown » Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:25 am

Alright guys, I got it working for me. Direct rendering and everything on my ATI card. Fire, hopefully I can help you now. IF your problems are because you have the mesa drivers and direct rendering disabled, then this should help.
Try going to ATI's site and downloading your versions drivers here:
That should be your models drivers.
Alright, rename the file to something smaller like "vidcard" so that you don't have to type out that long line each time (at least I did for me)
When you get the file running, select the option that allows you to look for the other distributions (sorry I can't be more spicific, I already deleted them all in my excitement to see it all work) and it should list all the distros. Unfortunately it doesn't list Mint, but I used "Ubuntu/feisty" and that one was compatible, i'll explain that further.

In your terminal, type "sudo (the driver file) --listpkg " and a nice long list of the distros and their versions will pop up. I'm not sure about 4.0 but for celena typing "sudo (the driver file) --buildpkg Ubuntu/feisty" will build you the packages you need. Then it will say approximately 4 files have been successfully created in some directory, I think in your home they are. Execute each one and install the packages, once all four are installed, enable or re-enable your driver to be used in the restricted file manager. Reboot and it should work.

I went through days of modding the Xorg.conf and none of it made a difference, but if what I told you helps, then I wish you luck =D

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