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Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking for

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:48 pm
by grumpops
I'm coming from a strictly Windows environment of roughly 20 yrs.
Three machines in the house are running Windows 7 Ultimate (because my wife is a developer, the license is free...so...what the hell right?)My i7 Desktop, and an i5 and Duo Core Laptop.

When we experienced an HD crash on one of the laptops (Gateway NV78, Duo Core Intel, 4G Ram, 500G SATA, Intel 4500HD graphics on the mother board)
I decided to talk a walk on the wild side and upon replacing the HD, I downloaded Mint 11.
Burned the ISO and stuck it in the DVD bay..Ooooh...pretty Spash screen...and that was the last bit of data I saw on the screen.
After poking around a bit I found a workaround for that with the space bar, Tab > remove SPLASH and QUIET from the end of the text string and replace with NOMODESET. BEFORE boot.
Ok..kewl...that worked and I got to play around with the Mint live for a bit.
Decided to install it...went through the install process just fine...screen looked good blah blah...Reach the end of the install and it says REBOOT....ok...I reboot....TAAA DAAA...same almost invisible screen again.

Only this time, when I went looking for solutions...everything I find makes massive assumptions about the reader...specifically that they know how to get to the system level to begin with...
Secondly, that they have an effen clue confused they are talking about. I don't know how to get to the place where these commands are being entered (I tried Terminal but that wasn't happening there) but I also don't know what these commands are supposed to do.

I'm beginning to wonder what is the exact reason I don't just reload Windows 7 Ultimate? What good is an O/S that doesn't even have or load video drivers?

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:58 pm
by AdamS
Sorry bro, allow me to first educate you WHY.

Some time back GPU drivers started getting ported to the kernel to allow for better live support.

What your seeing is a none supported GPU with the kernel being used.

Most likely due to age.

options now

1. older distro, there are some winners. One winner is new that just came out called OZ unity 1.0 x64 based on ubuntu 10.04.2 LTS

2. edit grub menu and add the nomodeset to the end of the line

3. IF you can at least boot to grub, enter recovery mode and boot via safe graphics mode to install the needed supported gpu drivers.

Now my take on this is there is a distro for all ages of systems and all makes of systems. Rather then stressing it, try other distro's or releases of distro's

Ultimate edition
OZ unity
linux mint DVD

Among my top choices , use the links in my sig bud.

Don't just go for newest of the new on aged hardware, state of the art on yesteryear isn't always best.

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:38 am
by conslie
That ATI Radeon 4500HD is certainly not too old to be supported.

Hitting TAB when you see the boot screen should allow you to enter the same nomodeset, etc. temporary workarounds. If that works, rejoin this forum and ask for further advice while LM11 is running. People able to help will need you to run certain commands in the terminal that will yield the information they need.

My recommendation would be to install LM9 or LM10 instead. LM11 is largely derived from the latest Ubuntu Linux, and there seem to have more problems than is usual with new releases. It has only been 5 days since the LM11 was released, and the early days of new distros often involve a bit of bug fixing.

I suppose you know that hardware makers pay Redmond thousands of dollars to make sure that everything works OK with m$ OSes.

Within Linux, things are rather different.

Nevertheless, my bet is that you will find both LM10 and LM9 work flawlessly, and the only problems you will encounter will be getting used to the fact that it is very different than Windows, despite the apparent similarities when first looking at the desktop.

Play around a bit. After a while you'll be grinning like a kid on Christmas morning.

Enjoy!

Edit to add: LM9 is an LTS release (Long Term Support - 36 months of upgrades and such). LM10 gets the usual 18 months. Both will still continue working, of course.

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:54 am
by AdamS
strait forward

http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2010/05/06/ ... orkaround/

should work the same in natty and mint 11.

Point is to get the modeset added to the end of the grub menu

only had to do this to 2 systems my self. As I recall it can be done via recovery mode and command line.

Code: Select all

sudo gedit /etc/default/grub 
make the changes, then

save then

Code: Select all

sudo update-grub2

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:22 am
by AdamS
This was the tutorial I used each time. Sorry I had to search for it.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1613132

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:02 pm
by grumpops
Well, that all sucks...I posted a long reply last night and I see this morning that it never posted.

Ok...First off.
When I see this graphic that says:

CODE: ALL
____________________________
*various cmd line entries here*

Please understand...I have no idea what you're showing me.
There are assumptions made about the level of knowledge when some of these questions get answed and after 20 yrs of nothing but Windows...I have to tell you...my knowledge of Linux could be fit into a thimble.

What is CODE: ALL? Is it a command? If so, where do I find the place to put it?
Even at the link for the tutorial...it makes the same assumptions about me already knowing how to access grub, where kernel is located, and none of it's true.
I am flying completely blind here.
I keep asking myself...any O/S that's THIS much trouble to use...is it worth using?
I will look into getting an older release of Mint but this computer is only 18 months old...I realize that in computer years, which are equivalent to dog years, that's a lot...but I don't think it's outside the scope of being able to run Mint.

The bottom line.
I DO NOT KNOW JACK about any of this.
I accidentally got to the GRUB> Command line last night because I was pissed and happened to be tapping the Tab key at Boot...
So I got the GRUB cmd line...unfortuntately...hitting tab again gave me a list, in completely unformatted order, of a gazillion possible commands...none of which was NOMODESET....which I did try.
Unfortuntately, NOMODESET is not a command...apparently it's an attribute that goes along with a normal command line entry.

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:09 pm
by allow_guests
Dear grumpops,

Congrats on finding out about the modeset stuff. I might not have had the patience.

CODE: ALL is a forum thing. Nothing to do with Linux.
The Irish Jedi gave you commands which ought to be typed on some kind of console but which do indeed require some knowledge and dedication. Not much, but some.
In grub, you use the arrow keys to choose the command you want to use to boot and you edit the commands by pressing on the "e" key. At least it used to work that way. Apparently you figured out another way (described in your first post). You may not have realized you were editing grub commands!
But these live edits are not saved. The Gaelige commands above are used to save your edits permanently, set the default boot command if you want to change it and so on. Basically the first command opens an editor in which you should make the change described in your first post.

Be glad that you discovered that there are driver issues on Linux early on while you can get out without having wasted too much time. Because there are very real issues, especially with laptops and graphics cards. If you can't take them, stay with Windows. Or better still: get a Mac. If you buy a product whose maker controls the hardware, you won't have driver issues.
I've had more issues with drivers on Windows than on Linux myself but I know that will virutally every piece of hardware will have a driver for some version of Windows (if not the one I want to use).
The reason you don't want to go back to Windows is that it's Windows. It's also the reason you want to go back to Windows. But don't feel bad about quitting: Linux is for cheapskates, tweakers and pros. For most people, Macs are everything Linux should be (except for the price tag!).

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:10 pm
by grumpops
allow_guests wrote:Dear grumpops,

Congrats on finding out about the modeset stuff. I might not have had the patience.

CODE: ALL is a forum thing. Nothing to do with Linux.
The Irish Jedi gave you commands which ought to be typed on some kind of console but which do indeed require some knowledge and dedication. Not much, but some.
In grub, you use the arrow keys to choose the command you want to use to boot and you edit the commands by pressing on the "e" key. At least it used to work that way. Apparently you figured out another way (described in your first post). You may not have realized you were editing grub commands!
But these live edits are not saved. The Gaelige commands above are used to save your edits permanently, set the default boot command if you want to change it and so on. Basically the first command opens an editor in which you should make the change described in your first post.

Be glad that you discovered that there are driver issues on Linux early on while you can get out without having wasted too much time. Because there are very real issues, especially with laptops and graphics cards. If you can't take them, stay with Windows. Or better still: get a Mac. If you buy a product whose maker controls the hardware, you won't have driver issues.
I've had more issues with drivers on Windows than on Linux myself but I know that will virutally every piece of hardware will have a driver for some version of Windows (if not the one I want to use).
The reason you don't want to go back to Windows is that it's Windows. It's also the reason you want to go back to Windows. But don't feel bad about quitting: Linux is for cheapskates, tweakers and pros. For most people, Macs are everything Linux should be (except for the price tag!).

Dude...I didn't say I "WANT" to quit and go back to Windows.
I just want to understand HOW to do what I need to do to keep this one machine at least, running Linux...it I like it enough..>I'll convert my i7 machine over too.

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:21 pm
by Tony.B
allow_guests wrote:... Linux is for cheapskates, tweakers and pros....
Unfortunately Mr/Mrs/Ms Allow_Guests hasn't told you that Linux is for everybody else too.

I'm 61 years old, with no computer background, and I've been running Linux Mint on my Acer laptop for over a year. I'm so happy with it that I installed the same system on my wife's Dell laptop. She's even older than me (but much better looking) and she's happy that she doesn't have to worry about picking up some sort of virus which, as we both know to our cost, can seriously stuff up our computers.

Neither of us could ever be considered tweakers or pros - what we know about computers could be written on the back of a postage stamp. We switch on, everything works, we do our stuff, we switch off. If something happens that we don't understand, the LinuxMint Forums and/or Google are available to help, but that would be my department, since my lovely wife hasn't even discovered Google yet.
As for cheapskates... well I doubt that we'd fall into that category either, but I can't find a way to refute it without sounding as if I'm boasting.

I'm sorry you've encountered problems, and I'm even more sorry that I don't know enough to solve them.

For your info, I'm running LinuxMint 9, which is a long-term release. The computer whizz-kids may well view this as a cowardly approach; but, from my perspective, it seems to be more tried and tested than others, and it's therefore less likely to cause me any stress.

I hope you stick with LinuxMint; it's good, believe me.

Regards,
Tony

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:25 pm
by lmintnewb
You must use all avail resources to the utmost ! The wife is a developer, ya should goad her into dealing with all this aggravation. Errrr ... dear, sheesh this is hard stuff. Betcha can't get it working. ;)

May cause a few arguments ... and shatter your domestic bliss. But that's a small price to pay to migrate from windows to linux. Agree with the linux is for everybody thing. Am not the avg PC user myself ( I know, am a very modest n humble soul too.)

But to date all things linux have been very pleasing and given no real problems. At least that weren't self inflicted. Might do as someone already suggested and try another version of Mint. ... Not everybody has been happy with Mint 11, judging from the forum posts.

Tis based on ubuntu 11.summin apparently. And scuttlebutt says the new buntu release has had more than it's share of issues. Or even go with Mint 9 LTS deal ... There are a ton of great Minty things to choose from. Couldn't hurt seeing if they cooperate and work-out better for you than Mint 11.

Paying for way overpriced junkware from a sleazebag, corp scumsucker, when better stuff is readily avail for free. Isn't being a cheapskate ... More like exercising a lil common sense. Been my experience though ... there's nothing common about common sense. Seems to be an extremely rare quality among the human species, lol.

Afterthought: Which isn't a bad idea anyway. I mean trying a bunch of Mint's releases. Could always reinstall win7 too. Do a bit of research about dual booting win w nix. Then install a bunch of em and see which one you like best. Multibootin isn't a big deal. Have 4 os's on this old dinosaur atm. So you might find you really like one Mint release and not another. You can always ding and reformat the hdd on your box. So wont hurt to play around and see what's right for you.

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:34 pm
by grumpops
Ok...Lint 9 it is...

But this does beg the question.
From my reading and reading and reading ad nauseum...why are there so many DIFFERENT Linux? (At least that's what I'm gleaning from the conversations...)
I've seen at least five differen't names for distros which I assume are all Linux but is there a difference between them? (and should I have even asked that question for fear the answer will cause me to have a stroke?...lol)

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:46 pm
by lmintnewb
Yep ... ya really messed up now buddy. :D

Yeah there's mucho differences in some of them. Different desktop, diff software packages, diff code bases, diff kernel versions etc. Most of Mint's main stuff is ubuntu linux based. Mint now has debian based releases coming out too. Which debian is another distro of linux, very old one n renown distro. Ubuntu linux, is itself a derivative distro of Debian. Can be some big differences as a result. Gnome, kde, xfce ... etc are all different desktops ... DE's ( desktop environments ). Some as mentioned come with diff software packages related to that. A diff package manager, file manager ... Just diff stuff.

Would assume, a Mint release that's made specifically for a certain DE would be optimized to work as well as poss with it. I personally like light weight linux stuff. As my comp is older and only has 512mbs/ram.

Lighter weight DE's like xfce, fluxbox, openbox ... etc. Use mucho less system resources than a heavy weight DE ... like gnome or kde. To add to the confusion you can easily install multiple DE's on a linux release, then switch between them in a few clicks ( which is actually great, once ya get your bearings, lol). Yep ... seems can definitely be a lot to choose from in the linux world. Recall someone n stats saying there's summin like 500 linux distro's around. Mint is a really good one, imo.

A lot of it comes down to personal tastes n preferences. Just don't see how it could hurt trying another Mint release or trying several and seeing which best suits your tastes, preferences and runs the best on your hardware. Since you're having all these issues w Mint 11. Suggests it might not be the right fit for ya. Hopefully other Mint releases work smoother and w/o all this unneeded aggravation. Some of this stuff can be really aggravating. So many working parts w software +hardware. Sometimes hard to pin down the cause of the aggravation.

Though linux and linux mint are worth going through some hassle to get. You'll be glad ya did ... eventually anyway. Just a shot in the dark guess, not thinking your problem is a video driver one here. I mean since Mint 11, worked fine in live session. Seems it was able to get along with whatever video card ya have. So might be wrong there ... am not a linux or PC guru. But get the feeling it's something else. Still no point dwelling I guess. Install some other Mint stuff n hopefully it works out of the box for ya w/o headaches. If it's a grub thing ( more like kernel deal), then hey, that's annoying, lol. Again ... other Mint stuff hopefully treats ya better.

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:14 pm
by Myrmidon83
I can put forward a reasonable guess that your intel graphics card is the problem. I had an intel graphics on my last laptop and it was one of the notorious ones to get working and even then it was rubbish. Whilst you have a newer card, I can imagine some issues will remain as intel cards seem to be like that.

As others have said, reverting to Mint 9 or 10 could work well because in all honesty, setting up Mint should be stupidly easy with no need of command entries in terminal. Perhaps once you're organised you could try a different desktop environment like xfce, I recall having more success with these on Intel cards.

:)

I hope you get there!

Also on intel cards I've found that a correctly working live cd does not mean installing will work.

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:30 pm
by lmintnewb
Ahhh just as long as the OP get's to try Mintiness and doesn't throw in the towel. This has become a matter of principle !!! :D

Either way, I'm using an oldddddd intel integrated vid card and hasn't given me any problems with around a dozen diff distro's so far ( one of them Mint 10, 32bit). Have 3 distro's installed, all working fine, shrugs. Might be diff with a stand alone vid card or lappies in particular, etc. Which would be really foolish and craptastic on the part of the devs behind these distro's. Considering how popular laptops are now, Not my problem or place to deal with though. Ahhh I don't know ... Just thinking since Mint 11, is causing such grief. Wouldn't hurt looking around the Mint workshop a tad more n trying something else.

Getting the OP to Mintiness is the big picture me thinks. Hmmm, still like the if at 1st you don't succeed ... Trick the wifey into dealing with it solution, lol. Wouldn't so much be the video driver I'd think. More a matter of which kernel is at play. As kernel and firmware etc, seem to go hand n hand. Could definitely be wrong, as I admit am not a linux guru.

Also afterthought. Think when in doubt ... Google could find a work around for whatever issues are being experienced here too n get Mint 11 to work fine on that box. Maybe hit the ubuntu forums and search for NOMODESET n similar stuff. Look around there, for people with the same probs and what everyone came up with to solve it. If it works in buntu, will likely work in Mint 11 too. Sure the OP is not the only person to ever have this issue. Also sure he's not the only person who was offered a solution to it.

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:53 pm
by AdamS
ok bud, laptop just walked in the door. I wanted to use my custom built version of mint 11.

But, it would not load with the on board GPU. So I set it to nomodeset and it loaded right up.

Installed it and when I got to grub boot screen I hit e to edit. Scrolled down to linux boot line (first one) Added nomodeset to the end of the line.

Loaded up and

Code: Select all

sudo gedit /etc/default/grub
sudo update-grub2
added it to the end of the line there and rebooted.

Wala, was that easy.

Mint 11 worked just fine after that.

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:11 pm
by lmintnewb
Ha ! Success !!! Obstacle more than likely overcome ... Mintiness via Mint 11 can now be experienced !!!

GLR has saved da day. Hopefully will help a bunch of people with getting Mint 11 to work. Remember seeing another thread by someone having black screen or zigzag screen issues with Mint 11. Wonder if this would solve their gripes too ?

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:15 pm
by AdamS
I would say so ya, This one would have green and white strips then go black.

Seen some get all blocky

Seen some get all grainy lol

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:17 am
by grumpops
Ok..one down one to go.
I'm not exactly sure HOW I did it...because when I first booted up...did the CTRL-F2 thing...got the command line.
Entered the code above and got an immediate error...
Then I got a few other strange screens in monochromatic orange text about some error somewhere...Y to automatically fix...so...yes it was..
THEN after doing the CTL-X it went blank for a moment and I got the spash screen with what I assume to be the grub command line (Endsin a $.)
So, I entered the SODU GEDIT /ETC/DEFAULT/GRUB...and VOILA...it loaded.

Of course, I have no idea if this change is permanently written....
Now I would like to be able to get back to a 16:9 aspect ratio screen cuz it looks kinda doofy the way it is.

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:02 am
by lmintnewb
Should be ... well hopefully.

Never used Mint 11, going to assume it's similar to Mint 10 layoutwise. Hit the Menu button ... select control center. Find the icons for display ... look for controls for setting resolution. If not there couple others to check ... login screen icon or startup manager icon. Though be warned, listening to me is as good a way to make things worse as fix anything lately. These are just poss for upping the resolution on your comp.

Re: Ok...I searched...didn't find EXACTLY what I'm looking f

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:16 am
by allow_guests
grumpops wrote:why are there so many DIFFERENT Linux?
You have no idea how many they are. That, my friend, is called saoirse... or freedom in the Queen's lingo. Not so much freedom of choice but the freedom to do your own thing.
You can do lots of things with computer. For each need, a different package makes sense. And then there's the fact that everyone wants their own: corporations want something to sell, nationalist want something from their country to beat their chest about (that and the whole "language" and "alphabet" business them foreigners care about... why can't everyone simply speak English?) and then you've got random people who figure they know better than everyone else. And what do you know? Sometimes they do.

Note that Linux is only the kernel. It's a fairly small piece of software. Most of what you see on your screen is displayed by other software (with the help of the kernel). Much of the software you find in most Linux distros, you also find on other operating systems. And some of the key Linux software was developed from other operating systems. Free software can be recycled and rearranged by everyone. It's a happy mess as long as you don't try to figure it all out.