SOLVED - Where to find apps after installation?

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frascati
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SOLVED - Where to find apps after installation?

Post by frascati » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:33 pm

Sorry for the shouting, but I've been asking this in another thread for days now with no response.

When I install something in the package manager or the software manager, there does not appear to be any indication prior to, while, or after installation as to where the application/widget is to be found/accessed.

I installed Plasma-Widget-Wifi and WifiMon from the software manager. Now I can't find them. They don't show up in via any search commands. Not in the panel. Not on the desktop. Not found in Menu->Applications->All->.......
Last edited by frascati on Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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linuxviolin
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Re: WHERE DO APPS GO WHEN YOU INSTALL THEM?

Post by linuxviolin » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:43 pm

Well, I don't use WiFi but for instance Plasma-Widget-Wifi should be a thing to add to the panel like the menu, the notification area or like I guess. So just right click on the panel and you should find the option to add this stuff. :wink:
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Re: WHERE DO APPS GO WHEN YOU INSTALL THEM?

Post by remoulder » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:16 pm

frascati wrote:I've been asking this in another thread for days now with no response
Rather an overstatement! Your other post was started yesterday and got a reply from someone other than yourself this morning. Starting a new thread whilst you still have another open on the same topic is not considered good manners here. You should remember that everyone here is a volunteer and learn some patience.
[Edit] your original post and add [SOLVED] once your question is resolved.

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frascati
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Re: WHERE DO APPS GO WHEN YOU INSTALL THEM?

Post by frascati » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:35 pm

Rather an overstatement! Your other post was started yesterday and got a reply from someone other than yourself this morning. Starting a new thread whilst you still have another open on the same topic is not considered good manners here. You should remember that everyone here is a volunteer and learn some patience.
Whoa... lighten up there. I asked about missing lnks after installation a couple of times in that thread and there was not even an acknowledgement that anyone had even noticed. My original question, the topic/title of the thread
Wireless site survey utility in the software manager?

was answered, as you point out, but the matter of where those, among others, end up, was not. The question of where the apps end up was only tangential to the original topic and I could not possibly hope that anyone scanning the thread titles would have known of its existence. Is that not fair game for a new line of inquiry?

Looking at a few other threads, some quite old, regarding the matter suggests that it has not been straightforwardly addressed (to say the least) so there was zero hope of finding answers/assistance in a thread whose title did not mention it.

Here is another thread I might have posted to, but did not want to get dinged for bringing up an old thread.
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 4&start=60

Which, incidentally reveals the level of frustration in this matter. People asking for help, for the last four years, locating apps after installing them, and the situation only seems to have gotten worse? And you're jumping on my back for trying to be more explicit via one new thread? A question that was not specific to my previous post.

This is from June of 2010 in the thread linked above..
Postby Timmi on Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:43 pm
Guys, stop looking at the apps... this is definitely a bug.
I've been using Mint for a while now (since version 5), and I have never seen anything like this...
there are more apps not showing up in the menu than are showing up.
This first started in version 8, but a reboot would resolve it.
It seems to have gotten much more frequent in version 9.
This is definitely a bug that needs to be addressed.
There was no followup specific to that statement in that thread before it died. I have been unable to find followup help in the matter in searches here beyond the unsuccessful suggestions in that original thread.

Does anyone who actually contributes to the design of Mint actually check in here from time to time? The more I sift through searches and threads here the more I wonder? How can that be? That the thread I linked to above went on for YEARS while a situation just got worse is really distressing.



Postscript.... my apologies here. There was a very recent thread here on the same topic.
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=80937
Please merge this thread if you can. That one is also not answered. It suggests a couple of the same fixes suggested in the much older thread I linked to above. In none of the instances (that I could find anyway) did any of the suggestions remedy the original question in the thread title..... the package manager or software manager or synaptic states clearly that the package is installed, but it's nowhere to be found. No search turns it up whether via the terminal or via the menu search. Rebooting doesn't help. Reloading plugins does nothing. Reinstalling the package does nothing. Right clicking the panel and "add to panel" does not show the app among the choices.
Last edited by frascati on Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: WHERE DO APPS GO WHEN YOU INSTALL THEM?

Post by pluraldave » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:04 pm

frascati wrote:I installed Plasma-Widget-Wifi and WifiMon from the software manager. Now I can't find them. They don't show up in via any search commands. Not in the panel. Not on the desktop. Not found in Menu->Applications->All->.......
Plasma-Widget-Wifi is a KDE plasma widget. You have to be running the KDE desktop in order to use it (in which case you start it like all other Plasma widgets). However, I'd guess that you are not running KDE...

I can't find WifiMon in the software manager/synaptic, but if it's the same one that shows up in Google it's just a bash script that you would run from the terminal.

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Re: WHERE DO APPS GO WHEN YOU INSTALL THEM?

Post by Fred » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:07 pm

Greetings and salutations frascati,

Since you seem to be unable to get an answer, I'll take a stab at it.

First you need to understand that how and where a program is installed is dependent on who made the deb file you are trying to install. The installation instructions are part of the deb file and Mint has no control over where it is installed and what options are used. So if you don't like the way it installs go to the source of the deb file and complain.

Having said that there are conventions in Linux that are usually followed. The executable usually goes in /usr, The global config files usually go in /etc. The user config file usually goes in a hidden file in the user's home.

Generally icons will not be generated for programs that run at the CLI. But usually are for GUI programs. They may or may not register with the menu but usually do.

Hope this enlightens you.

Enjoy,

Fred
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Re: WHERE DO APPS GO WHEN YOU INSTALL THEM?

Post by frascati » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:46 pm

Ok.
Attempted another one.
"wmwave" installed via the software manager.
Screenshot-6.png
Screenshot-6.png (68.13 KiB) Viewed 1100 times
wmwave is dockapp for Window Maker to display statistical information about a current wireless ethernet connection. While made for Window Maker, it works with other window managers.

Homepage: http://wmwave.sourceforge.net
After installation I could not find it in the menu. Is it not there because it's a "docapp for Window Maker" ?
Do I need to know how to work with "docapps" before utilizing such an app? Is this common for software that I might install via synaptic/softwaremgr/packagemgr?

I typed which wmwave into the terminal and the directory /usr/bin/wmwave was indicated.

I went there and located the folder/file. I tried to open it to no avail. Just guessing, I dragged/dropped it to the panel bar and was welcomed with a dialogue asking to "create" launcher.
I did not find the previous two lost apps usiing the same terminal search query. Got lucky with this one.

Now the app opens from the panel. it's exactly what I was looking for. But it's a tiny .75 x .75 inch window. Obviously it's supposed to be larger.
On the dropdown menu in the window is an option to "resize" which only results in the second version of it in this screenshot.
Screenshot-7.png
Screenshot-7.png (435.68 KiB) Viewed 1100 times
Any further suggestions? Again.... this is unrelated to the original topic.... but I'll let that rest for a bit.

frascati
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Re: WHERE DO APPS GO WHEN YOU INSTALL THEM?

Post by frascati » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:04 pm

Plasma-Widget-Wifi is a KDE plasma widget. You have to be running the KDE desktop in order to use it (in which case you start it like all other Plasma widgets). However, I'd guess that you are not running KDE...

I can't find WifiMon in the software manager/synaptic, but if it's the same one that shows up in Google it's just a bash script that you would run from the terminal.


http://www.linuxnewbieguide.org/content ... 7-what-kde

Is KDE a separate Mint distro? Can I simply enable KDE from synaptic or package manager? Do I want to? Will it enable me to use plasma widgets?

When you say "just a bash script" does that suggest (I pray) that I might find a copy/paste script within that application's website that I can just plug into the terminal and make things go?
Or do I need to study the following..
http://linuxconfig.org/Bash_scripting_Tutorial

Just to remind... this is the newbie section

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Re: WHERE DO APPS GO WHEN YOU INSTALL THEM?

Post by pluraldave » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:23 pm

frascati wrote:s it not there because it's a "docapp for Window Maker" ?
Do I need to know how to work with "docapps" before utilizing such an app? Is this common for software that I might install via synaptic/softwaremgr/packagemgr?
If the description is Addon X for Program Y then usually you will need to have and be running Y in order to get X working.

What exactly are you looking for? Something to monitor your wifi occasionally as needed or a wifi monitor widget that sits on the desktop/panel? Perhaps screenlets might have something that fits your need, or conky if you're more adventurous.
frascati wrote:
Plasma-Widget-Wifi is a KDE plasma widget. You have to be running the KDE desktop in order to use it (in which case you start it like all other Plasma widgets). However, I'd guess that you are not running KDE...

I can't find WifiMon in the software manager/synaptic, but if it's the same one that shows up in Google it's just a bash script that you would run from the terminal.


http://www.linuxnewbieguide.org/content ... 7-what-kde

Is KDE a separate Mint distro? Can I simply enable KDE from synaptic or package manager? Do I want to? Will it enable me to use plasma widgets?
KDE is the desktop environment (essentially everything you see that isn't a program like Firefox or Writer). There is a KDE version of Mint you can install or you can install KDE from synaptic, then choose a KDE session at login (there's a drop down list in the bottom panel after you click your username). However, multiple desktop environments on the same install can cause issues so in the long term a dedicated KDE install would be better if you find you prefer KDE. Try a googleing for images of the widget to see if it looks like what you want then go from there.
frascati wrote:When you say "just a bash script" does that suggest (I pray) that I might find a copy/paste script within that application's website that I can just plug into the terminal and make things go?
Or do I need to study the following..
http://linuxconfig.org/Bash_scripting_Tutorial

Just to remind... this is the newbie section
If it's the same thing that I found then you would type a terminal command that causes the script to run and then it would give you some sort of text feedback.

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Re: WHERE DO APPS GO WHEN YOU INSTALL THEM?

Post by frascati » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:36 pm

Thank you.

The reason I could not find wifimon is that it was wavemon. In my spitting anger I got turned around. Still unable to find it in search or menu but it was in usr/bin as suggested above.
Also able to run it direct from the terminal, once I got the name straight. It's just about exactly what I need so I'll stop here. Tried to put it in the panel but it wont' launch from there.
It's only something that I occasionally need, but it's as good as any practice for installing apps. The tiny window in that screenshot above of wmwave is simple and ideal. Just a simple graphic that launches when needed from the bottom panel. If only I knew how to expand it.

Sorry for the histrionics. Tomorrow's another day. Still pretty pissed about all the dead ends and rabbit holes in mint, but I'm realizing that I'll just wreck myself (and get kicked out of here) if keep letting it get to me. It just seems as if Mint lures one in with it's elegant gui and seeming clarity, just to keep biting you in the a$$ whenever you dig just beneath the surface.

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Re: WHERE DO APPS GO WHEN YOU INSTALL THEM?

Post by pluraldave » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:44 pm

Ok, just installed wavemon - it's a command line application. To run it open a terminal and enter

Code: Select all

wavemon
frascati wrote:Sorry for the histrionics. Tomorrow's another day. Still pretty pissed about all the dead ends and rabbit holes in mint, but I'm realizing that I'll just wreck myself (and get kicked out of here) if keep letting it get to me. It just seems as if Mint lures one in with it's elegant gui and seeming clarity, just to keep biting you in the a$$ whenever you dig just beneath the surface.
You have to realise that most program installations are not as difficult as this (or indeed difficult at all). You seem to be trying to run before you can walk and blindly installing everything without first checking what it is you're installing. It is little surprise that you are tripping at every step. ;)
Last edited by pluraldave on Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WHERE DO APPS GO WHEN YOU INSTALL THEM?

Post by acerimusdux » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:48 pm

It really depends on the package maintainer to insure that links are created in the right place. If you stick to the more popular, highly rated packages, most of them will be things designed to run from a GUI. In Debian based distros, such packages, if they comply with standards, should register themselves with the Debian Menu system, and thus will show up in your menus.

Per the Debian Policy manual:

"All packages that provide applications that need not be passed any special command line arguments for normal operation should register a menu entry for those applications, so that users of the menu package will automatically get menu entries in their window managers..."

Of course, with thousands of packages available, there are certainly going to be some that are non-compliant. There are also many that were not really intended for desktop users running graphical interfaces; they are designed to be run from the command line, with appropriate arguments. If you are primarily a graphical desktop user, and find you have installed such a package, the chances are it isn't quite what you wanted.

There are also standards which govern these packages though, including a filesystem standard which says exactly where different types of files should install (called the FHS). The most useful one of these to know, if you don't know where a package has gone or how it's supposed to work, is the standard location for the package documentation: /usr/share/doc/<packagename>.

Packages which are compliant with Debian policy will also include man pages for any command or utility available from the command line, as well as for configuration files (so if a command is called, for example "openvpn", you would get instructions by typing "man openvpn").

Now if a package has provided the appropriate menu definitions to show up in your menus, those should be located in /usr/lib/menu/<packagename>. If a package has registered there and still isn't showing up, the maybe there really is a bug with the installer or menu system; in that case you could try running "update-menus" to see if this helps (but this really should have been run by the installer).

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Re: WHERE DO APPS GO WHEN YOU INSTALL THEM?

Post by frascati » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:06 am

Thank you very much for the explanations here. An apology to Fred in particular. Rereading this thread top to bottom I discovered that I'd continued headlong into my diatribe at the same time that he must have been typing a response. My post that follows his appears as if I'd willfully ignored his attempts to help. I'd read his only after posting my own, and it might have saved me some effort.

I had, prior to this experience, very good luck with apps installed from the various managers. I got a bit complacent? When a few in a row started giving me fits I searched the forum and it appeared, from generally parsing the commentary, to be a problem that was going ignored. But I see, from your explanations, that was a misapprehension. From a beginner's standpoint that is good and bad news. I was rather hoping that a simpler (who wouldn't?) explanation existed for such hiccups, but at least the matter is no longer mysterious.
I'll just dive back in and start installing a cartload of apps while I'm learning to use mint, calm down, and get a clearer picture via experience rather than insisting on immediate knowledge.

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