[SOLVED] About Linux, Mint and OpenBox

[Danko8321]

Helllo, forum fellas, I have a few newbie doubts and problems that I would like to post.

I think I'll start with the basics, and that is Linux's levels of clearance (Desktop User, Administrator, Root). What are they? What is the difference? I've heard people say that it is unsafe to use the Root account all the time since it has to many permissions, does this apply too to a Administrator account? How many accounts should I have? Can I be an Administrator all the time, or is it unsafe?

What makes Mint different from other distributions (I like it because it is a lot lighter and more user friendly than Ubuntu, but, is that all?), is it a good distro for PowerUsers as well? I think it is a very natural leap to go from Windows to Mint, anyone has experienced the same thing?

Now, about desktop environments, I've heard what they are, I think I understand them (I might be wrong, though), and I would like to know a little bit more about them, I cant use OpenBox, since it doesn't recognize my system connection, and that other thing, Gnome/OpenBox (what is that, by the way?) doesn't let me log in (it kicks me out back to the login screen after a few seconds of black screen). Anyone has an idea about what can be happening? Thank you in advance.

[vrkalak]

You have a lot of questions in your post.

I'll try to answer them 'one-by-one'

From the LinuxMint Forum Thread > Linux: Tricks of the Trade -- tips from our members

What is the difference between Debian, Fluxbox, XFCE, etc?

That is a very broad question (But I understand a newbie wouldn't know how so), so let me try to whittle it down a bit. If you're coming to Linux for the first time from Windows or Mac, you're not familiar with the very concept of having different desktops to choose from! The only thing I ever really changed on my Windows desktop was wallpaper and themes. But in Linux, you can choose different window managers and desktop environments.

The two are different things. The window manager controls how the desktop windows are "drawn" by your computer. When we refer to windows in Linux, we don't mean that other operating system by Microsoft, we mean the little boxes that contain the graphics for whatever application you launch. Microsoft did a clever thing by calling their OS "Windows." It sort of suggests that they invented the little things. But in fact, long before there was the Windows operating system, there were windows with borders to separate running applications. Unix and DOS both had windows.

In Linux you can choose between window managers like Icewm, Openbox, Fluxbox, and Xfwm. Openbox is a big favorite because it has a nice "right-click anywhere on the desktop" feature that brings up a whole menu from which you can launch applications, open a terminal, etc. You can even have wallpaper. Many folks with older low-powered machines use only a window manager and no desktop environment at all. Without the extra visual "eye candy" and decorations, computers running only a window manager run very fast! Fluxbox is considered a little less "newbie friendly" than Openbox, but "Mintified," I'm sure that isn't the case with our Fluxbox edition. Google the term "Linux window managers screenshots" to see what can be done with just a bare-bones window manager!

A desktop environment on the other hand includes a window manager but also includes stuff like panels, applets, and applications that are designed to work best in that particular desktop environment. Among desktop environments are KDE, Gnome, Xfce, Enlightenment, and LXDE. Each has it's own special features and applications. The "heavyweight" desktop environments (KDE and Gnome) have all sorts of wonderful features like "plasmoids" and the famous "spinning cube." They're more demanding on resources, but on computers 2 years old or newer, they run plenty fast. Xfce is kinda sorta like "Gnome Lite," if you will. It "feels like" Gnome but offers fewer of the extra fancy features and is designed to work better on modest hardware. LXDE is a very "lightweight" desktop environment - so light in fact that it has been "accused" of being a window manager instead of a full-fledged desktop environment. The look of LXDE reminds alot of people of what "Windows 98" looked like.

Each of the desktop environments has it's own set of applications that work best in their "native" environment. That is called "integration." Xfce applications, for example, are integrated into the Xfce desktop environment, so the experience of applications in their "native" desktop environment will tend to be snappier and more responsive. Most people mix-and-match applications anyway. You can use any application in any desktop environment! But if you have limited space on your hard drive, it's better not to do that, since installing a single KDE application onto a Gnome desktop, for example, may also "pull in" large libraries from the other desktop environment.

Best Resource ever, for finding out about Window Managers and Desktop Environments > http://xwinman.org/
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

With the default install of Mint with Gnome desktop environment, while there is a placeholder for Gnome/Openbox session in the Log-in screen.
You still 'must' install Openbox WM first (that's why it won't let you log-in to Openbox)
And by adding Openbox over Gnome, just makes it heavier and not-so-light on resources and adds nothing to the 'speed' of the desktop.

You really should learn more about Openbox before attempting this - or you will think that it is 'broken' when you first open it.
As all you will see is a blank gray screen with nothing on it, if you 'right-click' a basic Openbox Menu will appear.
Everything else, the panel, wallpaper background, etc must be added/installed after the fact.

I have been a Linux and Mint user for several years now.
Primarily use LMDE (Debian-based) with either Openbox or Fluxbox WM over the default Xfce.

I currently use Fluxbox WM - I find FB to be easier to use and configure than even Openbox is.
Openbox and Fluxbox WM were made to be run over a xorg-system-core base.

[sagirfahmid3]

EDIT!!: I almost ignored the previous person's post. You have to install openbox first, but it doesn't use that much space though.
Open the Terminal>"sudo apt-get install openbox"
Now logout, then select Openbox, then login.

Follow the below steps if Openbox still doesn't work

I wonder why it kicks you out to the login screen?

This is what my Openbox startup entry looks like. Never had any issues:

Code: Select all

# This shell script is run before Openbox launches.
# Environment variables set here are passed to the Openbox session.

# Set a background color
BG="#00BF00"
if which hsetroot >/dev/null; then
    BG=hsetroot
else
    if which esetroot >/dev/null; then
	BG=esetroot
    else
	if which xsetroot >/dev/null; then
	    BG=xsetroot
	fi
    fi
fi
test -z $BG || $BG -solid "#303030"

# Run a composition manager
xcompmgr &

# Run Docky
docky &

# D-bus
if which dbus-launch >/dev/null && test -z "$DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS"; then
       eval `dbus-launch --sh-syntax --exit-with-session`
fi

# Make GTK apps look and behave how they were set up in the gnome config tools
if test -x /usr/libexec/gnome-settings-daemon >/dev/null; then
  /usr/libexec/gnome-settings-daemon &
elif which gnome-settings-daemon >/dev/null; then
  gnome-settings-daemon &
# Make GTK apps look and behave how they were set up in the XFCE config tools
elif which xfce-mcs-manager >/dev/null; then
  xfce-mcs-manager n &
fi

# Preload stuff for KDE apps
if which start_kdeinit >/dev/null; then
  LD_BIND_NOW=true start_kdeinit --new-startup +kcminit_startup &
fi

# Run XDG autostart things.  By default don't run anything desktop-specific
# See xdg-autostart --help more info
DESKTOP_ENV=""
if which /usr/lib/openbox/xdg-autostart >/dev/null; then
  /usr/lib/openbox/xdg-autostart $DESKTOP_ENV
fi

Copy and paste that in the Openbox "autostart.sh" file.

Follow these steps:
1.Terminal>"gksu pcmanfm"
2.Browse to /etc/xdg/openbox/
3.Copy the file autostart.sh and save it anywhere in your home folder (just in case my autostart doesn't work for your Openbox)
4.Right click on autostart.sh and edit it with Leadpad or Gedit or whatever text editor.
5.Delete everything inside.
6.Copy and paste my autostart entry (above)
7.Logout and log back in. It should work.

Let me know if it worked or not.

[sunewbie]

you ma also want to search google for 'X window system'. The wiki page gives good info.

Regarding admin and root. I think they same.

Linux focuses on stability and security. Nothing gets installed without password. Even in Windows, it is good to use non-admin acocunt, but generally people do not care about it.

Login only as root only when needed. It is good for security. You may have noticed in any instructions, that uses CLI (terminal) contains sudo i.e. Substituted User -DO. This gives the current user elevated privilages, which allows you to tweak system, install or uninstall anything.

You have to manually type command followed by password. Even if you use GUI to install, uninstall apps, you have manually enter password.

I think this link should be helpful to you.

Why Must I Keep Entering My Password?

Hope this helps

[Danko8321]

Ok, first of all, thanks to all of you for your answers, they have been really helpful and have cleared some of my doubts; now, @sagirfahmid, thanks for the login script for OpenBox, it is useful and got my OpenBox session to work; the problem is that it is running both on Gnome and Xfce as well, so it changes my wallpaper and starts Docky automatically every time I log in. second thing, I got OpenBox to work thanks to your advice, but now that other thing "GNOME/OpenBox" kicks me out to the login screen every time I try to log in. I still have Internet issues with OpenBox (I even got the Network applet for Docky, but it didn't help much), and I still can't connect to my Wifi Network; I cant find an Applet for docky that lets me connect, and the Gnome-Network-Manager (running on OpenBox, of course) doesn't let me connect to my Wifi Either. Any ideas regarding this topic? Thanks in advice, and, again, thanks to all of you for your answers.

[sagirfahmid3]

It changes my wallpaper and starts Docky automatically every time I log in.

Then remove the lines "xcompmgr &" and "docky &" from autostart.sh if you don't need them.

Second thing, I got OpenBox to work thanks to your advice, but now that other thing "GNOME/OpenBox" kicks me out to the login screen every time I try to log in.

When you want to use Gnome, click the dropdown menu and click "Gnome" and when you want to use Openbox, click "Openbox session" and hit login--don't click on "GNOME/Openbox". I logged into the "GNOME/Openbox" session and my screen started flickering uncontrollably and I could not logout of the session to switch back, the CPU was using 100%, and it was crazy...but I did manage to logout after using the terminal, using the gnome-panel and hitting logout.

I still have Internet issues with OpenBox (I even got the Network applet for Docky, but it didn't help much), and I still can't connect to my Wifi Network

Try adding "nm-applet &" to the autostart.sh file, logout and log back in.

[Danko8321]

Indeed, it solved my Network problem, thank you Sagir. You were right about GNOME/OpenBox, I had been experiencing problems myself; I'm just kind of curious about Linux (I guess that and breaking machines is what teaches you the best), and was looking forward to know what that weird Mixture was (Heavy-Environment/Light-Environment); now, knowing that I'm not the only one experiencing problems with it tells me it is not advisable to use it.

Thanks for your advice, I'm starting to like OpenBox a lot, by the way, and Docky is Amazing! Anyway, thanks for the help; I'll leave the thread open since there are still a couple questions that haven't been answered. Danko.

[sagirfahmid3]

Could you please state which things were left unanswered? Thanks.
It helps us know what you are looking for...

Edit: I am guessing the GNOME/Openbox option runs Gnome but with Openbox as the window manager; it's going to affect the way your window borders look and act. The difference is obvious when using either Gnome or Openbox and comparing the different window style. Openbox wm is much faster than Metacity wm (default for Gnome, except Gnome 3).

[Danko8321]

Ok, this one is about Linux's levels of clearance, since it hasn't gotten really clear for me: I know that there are, at least three degrees of privileges (Administrative Account, User Account and Root), but I don't know what the difference is; I want to know this because I have been told it is unsafe to run a Root account all the time (I know why, and I never have done so), I wanted to know if that applied to an Account with Administrative privileges, since I would like not having to switch accounts every time i want to install an update (anyway, if it is absolutely necessary [for security reasons] I think I could just adjust to that). so, it basically comes to this: Can I use a (non Root) administrative account all the time, knowing that that one would have less privileges than Root (for example, it can't create a folder in "/home" and it can't use another user account without typing the password before [Root CAN]), and, if not, how many accounts would I have to have? I currently have a "Non-privileged" account, an "Administrative-Powered" Account, and, of course, the good 'ol "Root" account. Shall I keep with all of them, or should I have only a "Non-privileged" and "Root" account, or maybe an "Administrative-Powered" and Root account?

Now, I don't know if this fits in this topic as well, but, Is Mint a good Distro for Power-Users? And, What are the differences it has whit Ubuntu? I like Mint because I find it a lot more "user-friendly" than Ubuntu, yet it seems that it hasn't been wasted its "Power-User potential" since it seems to be very well managed in its structure and I have seen (read and heard) "Power-Users" using Mint, although most of the "Hardcore" Linux Fans seem to use Debian (I'm guessing because of its universality?), so I ask myself if Mint is the Distro to go "if" I go Power-User at any point in my life (I wouldn't mind using Mint for the next thirty years, of course, but I would like to know how much can you "gut" Mint and make it your own way, for example). I believe I could just be a Mint user for the rest of my life, but I wanted to know if it would become an obstacle if I become a Power-User (damn, I hope it doesn't, I totally love this Distro). I think that is all, thanks for your answers, they have really been helpful.

[sagirfahmid3]

You can customize the privileges by going to Mintmenu>Administration>Users and Groups. Edit each user and assign privileges there.
"sudo"=admin="su" there is no differences between that and administrator or admin account. "su" is different from "sudo" because "sudo" lets you become an admin temporarily to install programs and stuff. "su" lets you be full admin until you close the terminal.

Is mint good for power users? Of course!
The latest Ubuntu requires at least a 1GHz processor and 1GB RAM! Linux can run nicely even on 1GHz and 512mb RAM! (for LXDE it can run on half of that lolz). If that's not enough for you, you can always switch to Damn Small Linux (DSL), but it looks crappy, no offence guys.

[sunewbie]

Now, I don't know if this fits in this topic as well, but, Is Mint a good Distro for Power-Users? And, What are the differences it has whit Ubuntu? I like Mint because I find it a lot more "user-friendly" than Ubuntu, yet it seems that it hasn't been wasted its "Power-User potential" since it seems to be very well managed in its structure and I have seen (read and heard) "Power-Users" using Mint, although most of the "Hardcore" Linux Fans seem to use Debian (I'm guessing because of its universality?), so I ask myself if Mint is the Distro to go "if" I go Power-User at any point in my life (I wouldn't mind using Mint for the next thirty years, of course, but I would like to know how much can you "gut" Mint and make it your own way, for example). I believe I could just be a Mint user for the rest of my life, but I wanted to know if it would become an obstacle if I become a Power-User (damn, I hope it doesn't, I totally love this Distro). I think that is all, thanks for your answers, they have really been helpful.

Mint started of as Ubuntu + some goodies. It supports some proprietary drivers out-of-the-box like nvidia and mp3 codecs. You can say, Mint is improved Ubuntu or 'Ubuntu on Steroids' as one blogger pointed out. Though there is Pinguy OS.

Mint went ahead to make it's own tools called Mint tools and add it's own features. I will try to list them.

1. Mint Update. It is different from Ubuntu's Update manager. It categorizes updates into priority. You can neglect any update you want.

2. Popular Mint Menu

3. Mint backup tool

4. Mint cannot be easily upgraded as Ubuntu. Mint team believes it is better to have a fresh install then to Upgrade. One of the reason, I think, is that Ubuntu changes defaults apps in newer versions. So after (successfully) updating to a newer version, you are left with more than one app for same application e.g. music player changed form rhythmbox to banshee.

5. There is no fixed deadline for next version like Ubuntu. Unless Clem is not satisfied, he wont release ISO images.

6. Mint main edition is fully compatible with Ubuntu unlike Ubuntu which is Debian based but not compatible to Debian.

7. Mint is more community oriented / driven than Ubuntu. Mint Software Center has user voting. Every Mint member can vote for his/her favorite software.

8. Mint has grown than just an Ubuntu derivative. It has Debian based version called LMDE. Debian is not as user friendly as Ubuntu / Mint. LMDE is similar to it's main edition. Both in User friendliness and features. It is familiar in look-n-feel and has similar tools, software center, with rock solid Debian core. It is a rolling distro, so that you will never have to upgrade to newer version. By definition, it is less stable and so only power users use it --> In case you wish to become a power user, still you can use Mint

9. Latest LMDE ISO has shifted from Debian unstable / testing to latest. This is comparatively more stable than testing / unstable. It also has latest versions of softwares like Opera 11.52 can be found in repos.

10. After the criticism of Gnome 3, Mint Team is working on MATE ,which is a fork of very popular Gnome 2. In Mint 12, LISA, Clem will give both option of gnome 3 and MATE. So Mint is no more just Ubuntu + some extras / goodies

Mint is open source. So you can get 'under-the-hood' as also create your own Mint based Distro

To add to it, Mint has excellent Forum and Community.

Hope this helps.

[sunewbie]

@Danko8321

hope you find this link useful

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BasicSecurity

an excerpt:

Don't Log in as Root
An excellent way to find yourself in deep trouble is to modify permissions as root. Logging in as root means you will be browsing the Internet as root, drive by downloads (downloads that you did not authorize or that you authorized but did not realize the consequence behind), malicious scripts can all now execute with root permission. Default settings in Ubuntu will not allow you to log in as root. Don't change that unless you fully understand the consequences.

[Danko8321]

Ok, I've carefully read all the answers you gave me and I feel very satisfied; all my questions have been answered easily and in a very complete way; I will mark the post as solved, not without thanking all of you for your answers; Thank you, you were really Kind and very helpful; I think I'm a little bit less ignorant than I was yesterday (figuratively speaking, of course).