When support runs out....

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oldcat
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When support runs out....

Post by oldcat »

I have a question that I have wondered about for some time and now, with all the hoopla about Gnome 3, this is a good time to ask it. I have the installation discs for Mint 10 and Mint 11. In fact, I am happily running Mint 11 on a spare desktop. I hope the developers of Gnome 3 see this, although their colossal egos might not permit them to comprehend the "if it ain't broke, leave it alone" concept.

I have a friend who is having problems with his Windows Vista installation. I think part of his problem is that he has a bootleg version of this OS on his computer and consequently he is constantly having problems. For some reason, he refuses to take it to a repair facility and get it fixed. I have repeatedly offered to install Linux Mint for him if he will just get himself a spare machine.

For a user who is only interested in surfing the web, sending emails, and occasionally using his word processor, would there be any adverse effects of having support for the Mint version run out? Can you keep using it indefinitely, long after the support has run out?

This is also of interest to me. I have just recently installed LMDE on a spare laptop. It's working well but I'm wondering what I would do if I "broke" something. I keep hearing that it is not for newbies. And while I may not be a complete newbie, I don't delude myself about my ability to keep Debian running over time.

I've tried "googling" this but maybe I'm wording the questions wrong. I'm not getting any answers.
Inkit
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Re: When support runs out....

Post by Inkit »

For a user who is only interested in surfing the web, sending emails, and occasionally using his word processor, would there be any adverse effects of having support for the Mint version run out? Can you keep using it indefinitely, long after the support has run out?
Some people do this, but it is not recommended. Once support runs out, you don't receive any updates, including security updates, and although Linux may not have as many viruses as Windows does, with its market share of the home desktop increasing steadily, it's only a matter of time before we start getting affected too. It is better to go with a long term supported version. For instance, Mint 13 which is due in a few months is going to be supported for 5 yrs (I think). As of now the long term version is 9, but it is due to expire in a year's time.
I have just recently installed LMDE on a spare laptop. It's working well but I'm wondering what I would do if I "broke" something. I keep hearing that it is not for newbies. And while I may not be a complete newbie, I don't delude myself about my ability to keep Debian running over time.
LMDE is a very good distro. And it is true that there are chances of breakages. This is however why there are different options for your updates that you can choose from. There is a very good post here http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=187&t=76556 by zerozero that details how you can change the sources.list. This is the list that is used by your system for updates, and by choosing latest you can be reasonably sure that there are very little chances of breakages. I myself have been using LMDE with latest since the time it came out because I use my system for work and have not had one single breakage on it.
wayne128
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Re: When support runs out....

Post by wayne128 »

This is also of interest to me. I have just recently installed LMDE on a spare laptop. It's working well but I'm wondering what I would do if I "broke" something. I keep hearing that it is not for newbies. And while I may not be a complete newbie, I don't delude myself about my ability to keep Debian running over time.
Well,
when you attempt to update, there is always a chance of breakage.

To avoid that, or to have a way of getting back the last working OS, a good method is just clone the working OS partition.

It just takes some amount of hard disk space... preferably clone it on USB hard disk, so that in case internal hard disk developed hardware problem, or update breaks the system, you still have a clone on USB hard disk. Installing from a clone might takes 15-20 minutes.. it saves lots of trouble.
chipbuster
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Re: When support runs out....

Post by chipbuster »

To be honest, if you point your LMDE sources at the mint repositories, the chances of breakage are almost smaller than in regular Mint, since updates come out extremely rarely (typically only with update packs).
oldcat
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Re: When support runs out....

Post by oldcat »

Inkit, wayne128 and chipbuster, thanks for your responses. I just checked my sources.list and it indicates latest, not incoming. I had not read that post by zerozero, so now my mind is more at rest. What are you going to do when pack 4 comes out?

wayne128, cloning sounds good. I just don't think I'm ready for such a task. I "googled" how to do it and it didn't make a lot of sense to me. My modest talents lean more towards "monkey see, monkey do." I'm also going to have to stop using the generic term "google" because my search engines of choice are DuckDuckGo and Ixquick. They claim not to track you like Google does.

I have several old desktops and I have been trying to find something to fall back on when Mint 11 loses its support. I've tried several distros on my old Dell Dimension 4 with poor results. SimplyMepis 11 worked OK on it and, even though I don't especially like KDE, it is an option. If LMDE proves to be as good as everyone says it is, then the problem is solved.

My, how much trouble the Gnome 3 developers have caused everybody. Gnome 3 and Ubuntu went one way, trying to cram their brainchild down everybody's throat and meeting stiff resistance. Clem and Linux Mint went another direction and they are succeeding. Why? It looks as though the developers of Gnome 3 know a lot about computer science but very little about human nature. Mint, on the other hand, is giving its users alternatives. That's what it is all about.

Thanks, everyone.
wayne128
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Re: When support runs out....

Post by wayne128 »

oldcat wrote: wayne128, cloning sounds good. I just don't think I'm ready for such a task. I "googled" how to do it and it didn't make a lot of sense to me. My modest talents lean more towards "monkey see, monkey do." I'm also going to have to stop using the generic term "google" because my search engines of choice are DuckDuckGo and Ixquick. They claim not to track you like Google does.
.

Well, there are many ways to clone.

I use my lazy method. in summary, use gparted to COPY partition, Paste on USB drive, that is all
to reinstall clone: copy, paste, install boot loader or let a master boot loader pick it up..

So you think about those simple way of 'safe keeping files and folders' , just plug in USB drive, navigate, copy a directory or file or folder, paste...

if you are more interested in details, read this thread..
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=80360
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BigSteve_G
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Re: When support runs out....

Post by BigSteve_G »

I asked the same question about when support runs out in this thread http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96928 - might help...
I've fixed Windows, tried running with Jackalopes, fought Koalas & now, I'm addicted to Mints

Now with half a decade running Linux mint, still enjoying it & still learning!

http://www.facebook.com/itsbigsteve
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monkeyboy
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Re: When support runs out....

Post by monkeyboy »

I have a question that I have wondered about for some time and now, with all the hoopla about Gnome 3, this is a good time to ask it. I have the installation discs for Mint 10 and Mint 11. In fact, I am happily running Mint 11 on a spare desktop. I hope the developers of Gnome 3 see this, although their colossal egos might not permit them to comprehend the "if it ain't broke, leave it alone" concept.

With all due respect I disagree with you on this point. I see the developers of most Linux projects as unpaid volunteers following their Muse. Sure we as consumers may not like what this or that developer group produces but that is the price of freedom.


I have a friend who is having problems with his Windows Vista installation. I think part of his problem is that he has a bootleg version of this OS on his computer and consequently he is constantly having problems. For some reason, he refuses to take it to a repair facility and get it fixed. I have repeatedly offered to install Linux Mint for him if he will just get himself a spare machine.

Window users do have their ways. :)

For a user who is only interested in surfing the web, sending emails, and occasionally using his word processor, would there be any adverse effects of having support for the Mint version run out? Can you keep using it indefinitely, long after the support has run out?

I have a version of Mint 9 that I got set up just the way I wanted and being a very solid install I remastered it a few times for a few different machines. To date it has never failed on the machines I peeped it for and I suspect it will remain somewhat functional on those machines for a long time. However nothing lasts forever (as folks have pointed out) so I suspect at some point I will relegate it to just a utility install.


This is also of interest to me. I have just recently installed LMDE on a spare laptop. It's working well but I'm wondering what I would do if I "broke" something. I keep hearing that it is not for newbies. And while I may not be a complete newbie, I don't delude myself about my ability to keep Debian running over time.

Linux is like owning a horse, you are always maintaining it and learning as you go. However like most things once you get the basics down things get easier.

I've tried "googling" this but maybe I'm wording the questions wrong. I'm not getting any answers.

The big G is a good source but it's not perfect. It's just part of the help package, try the Mint chat option as well as the forum. Later you can look into other sources like Mints parent Debian and other related sources like desktop environments and specific package projects. Good Luck
If you don't like it, make something better
If you can't make something better, adapt
If you can't do either ball your panties up and cry.

Complaining is like masticating most anyone can do it.
However doing it in public is really hardcore.
Inkit
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Re: When support runs out....

Post by Inkit »

What are you going to do when pack 4 comes out?
My, how much trouble the Gnome 3 developers have caused everybody. Gnome 3 and Ubuntu went one way, trying to cram their brainchild down everybody's throat and meeting stiff resistance. Clem and Linux Mint went another direction and they are succeeding. Why? It looks as though the developers of Gnome 3 know a lot about computer science but very little about human nature. Mint, on the other hand, is giving its users alternatives. That's what it is all about.
I installed xfce as an alternate desktop environment after reading a lot of negatives about gnome 3, but now that I've switched, I don't think I'll move back to another environment. It's light, it's amazingly fast, and since I don't have an accelerated graphics card, there's really no point in gnome for me.

I know that a number of people have expressed a lot of negatives about gnome 3, and I'm assuming that the mint developers too are inclined that way. If not there would have been no reason to develop cinnamon. Yet if you check around you'll find that there are a lot of positives too. Gnome 3 is the future, just as windows 8 is. It may not be great now, but if MS with all its resources still has not managed to get things down pat with its windows 8, you really cannot blame people who work at 0.000000001% of MS' budget and dont get it right first time. Right?
The great thing though is that you have options in Linux while you don't in windows, probably why the market share of linux in the home desktop environment is seeing a steady rise. And who knows but that in a couple of years gnome 3 will be so good that we'll all feel a little foolish for having complained about it now?

I for one am going to stick with xfce, but there's kde which is very good, or the default mate and cinnamon that comes with mint.
Horses for courses is my thought here.
from Wayne
I use my lazy method. in summary, use gparted to COPY partition, Paste on USB drive, that is all
to reinstall clone: copy, paste, install boot loader or let a master boot loader pick it up.
I can assure you that this method works. I got this idea from wayne, and have tried it a number of times. And worst comes to worst all I have to do is update grub. No problems. And I don't even take a backup on to another drive. I just take a backup on to another partition, and when I want to reinstall it, I use my bootable usb, mount the drive and copy it over. As Wayne says, it's less than 10 min job, no sweat.
oldcat
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Re: When support runs out....

Post by oldcat »

You are right about Gnome 3, Inkit. Monkeyboy said basically the same thing. I suppose I am just expressing frustration. You cannot stop progress and if you try, you are just going to get run over. This whole shift from Gnome 2 to Gnome 3 is inevitable but it could have been handled with a lot more finesse. Remember the saying that "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?"

I am retired but I do a lot of typing and I enjoy tinkering around with computers. Why not? Some people like golf, others enjoy sailing. I have to keep Windows available because there are programs that I want that aren't built for Linux. But I honestly prefer Linux Mint to Windows and therein lies the problem. I see the end approaching for the Linux Mint that I have been using for years and I am casting around for an alternative. LMDE is looking good but I haven't used it long enough to really decide. I have Xfce 201109 on my old Dell Dimension 4 and it works. After using Mint Gnome, though, it takes a little getting used to. It's pretty bare. Right now, I cannot get Linux Mint 12 to do anything. But eventually I'm going to try Cinnamon.

I'm not alone here. Many people on this forum are going through the same adjustment process as I am and are probably just as frustrated. This can be loosely compared to the desktop vs. laptop thing. I am a touch typist. And the dinky little keyboard on a laptop can reduce a 60-80 wpm touch typist to a 10 wpm two-finger hunt-and-pecker. This change to Gnome 3 is changing a lot of productive workers who are happy with Gnome 2 to a lot of frustrated head-scratchers trying to decide what course to take.

It'll work out eventually. But the transition could have been made much more smoothly. Sometimes the developers and programmers need a level-headed businessman over them to keep their feet on the ground.


:?
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Re: When support runs out....

Post by AlbertP »

Cinnamon will be default in future, and it looks quite familiar for Gnome 2 users. So if you want an easier transition you could skip Mint 12 and go from 11 (or 10 or 9) directly to 13 when that version comes out in May.
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Inkit
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Re: When support runs out....

Post by Inkit »

"you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?"
:D :D
No arguments to that one. And I agree, a little dose of pragmatism sometimes works wonders where genius does not.
kernowmint
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Re: When support runs out....

Post by kernowmint »

Going back to an earlier reply, I think LTS releases are supported for 3 years not 5.

I was interested to read the posts about LMDE, as I've also been wary about trying it because of things I've read about the greater risk of breaking your system. Now I know how to tweak it to minimise the risk, I might give it a go, but probably in a VM first.
AlbertP
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Re: When support runs out....

Post by AlbertP »

kernowmint wrote:I think LTS releases are supported for 3 years not 5.
There were plans to support LTS for longer. IIRC Ubuntu 12.04 would become 5 years LTS.
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