Linux is Not Windows

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tek_heretik
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by tek_heretik »

@frodopogo

You make a lot of good observations, unfortunately software bloat is a reality and here to stay, I noticed software bloat proliferation back in the early 2000s. That being said, I used to build a new computer every 3 years just for fun, but times are getting tough, 3 years has turned to 5, I just built a 'budget' high-end recently (see sig), it may be my last build. Like you, I too am sick of developers "reinventing the wheel" (especially 'desktops', Gnome 3.x is a perfect example), I've noticed a lot of good apps that were just fine have been trashed through almost total overhauls as opposed to minor improvements. I spent years distro hopping, got my feet wet with 'beginner' distros, then wound up using Debian because it is somewhat of a 'Lego' distro, I wanted what I want, not what some distro builder thought I needed, and Debian used to shy away from corporate supported wares, not anymore it seems, with systemd on the horizon. Systemd is going to turn Linux in to another Windows, which makes me very sad, so now I'm back to distro hopping once again, to find a distro that won't be following the other lemmings off the systemd cliff (systemd is a vampire barnacle on the kernel that controls your computer like the Borg, potentially becoming an NSA backdoor or a means of other attacks that could bring down your whole system). Because I can't get my printer to work in Salix, that distro is PCLinuxOS (MATE), it's actually way too beginner friendly for me but it works and has plenty of (GUI) tools. I can't see myself going back to Windows, ever, so I'll have to take what I can get for as long as I can.

My last Mint version was 10, but for some reason I started having problems installing it to my 'fakeraid' in later versions, not only that, Mint is also starting a creep towards full systemd implementation (they follow Ubuntu's base software way too close for my liking). Cinnamon is a nice idea but it's easily broken if you try to get it the way you want it, and there's compatibility issues between it and some apps. I do like Xfce and test installed the Mint iteration but for some reason the desktop icons wouldn't 'remember' their positions, that's bizzare, for a basic function like that, so I decided to dump it if I have to 'fight' with it right out of the box, and this is coming from a former KDE lover (akonadi and nepomuk drove me away) turned Xfce expert, I'm sick of 'fighting' with distros, if I don't feel some immediate 'cooperation' and stability from a distro, I dump it, I don't have time to waste anymore, my tinkering days are over, like you, I just want to get things done, not 'play with a Lego set'.

Edited for spelling error(s).
Last edited by tek_heretik on Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Pool Man
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by The Pool Man »

FRODOPOGO said, "I'm getting frustrated to the point where I'm thinking I might have two computers.... one a Linux box for Internet, e-mail, and word processing, and a Windows box for music applications."

Not so, ozone breath! Your worries all already over. But you don't know it yet. :P

Step One: If you don't already have one, you must buy a robost PC for your music needs.

Step Two: Download this open source marvel -- https://www.virtualbox.org/

Step Three: Spend days and days playing with it. Watch YouTube vids like this --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l__8tmIfw70

Trial and error will get you running Mint virtually in Windows.

Step Four: You're kind of done. Right? Net, email, and word processing will work in Mint. Music apps will work native to PC.

I'm running a 2.7 Ghz i5 iMac with 8Gigs... and Mint KDE functions just fine (minus some Compiz like nuttiness which I sense you don't want anyway). In fact I'm replying to this email from MiKDE within VBox (set at 2.5 gigs) and I still have 2.5 gigs free on my system overall -- running Yosemite.


The caveat is that I'm not impressed with YouTube like sites in Linux. Part of this seems to be VirtualBox itself is in the way of optimal video, but I also get the indirect impression that flash is weak on Linux in general. If I'm wrong -- if somebody can assure me that YouTube and such sites behave identically under real Linux (versus virtual) please chime in.
frodopogo
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by frodopogo »

Thanks guys, for the responses.

I've been busy! The old computer (eMachines T6528) finally got so flaky with sporadic shutdowns that I retired it.
I bought a much better used HP dc5700s, but went with a larger hard drive and 4 gigs of RAM instead of getting Windows on it.
Then when a friend heard that I had bought a used HP, he gave me THREE MORE HP's various sizes, buses, and speeds!!!

So I have one fast one I can use for recording that I will probably put Ubuntu Studio on, one I can use for regular tasks and Internet with Linux Mint MATE, one I can use for storage and experimenting with odd software with Fedora MATE (32 bit),
and one I can use for experimenting with different distros (Manjaro xfce?) and possibly also more bleeding edge software.
So, no need for the virtualbox idea, since I have an abundance of real boxes!
But it is an appealing idea.
Having four boxes means I can have the music computer and the regular computer run tried and true things that won't jeopardize my data,
and a couple of computers suitable for more risky experiments.

So I think I get the "new apps = bugs that can cause OS crashes" thing... so I think keeping Linux Mint for important data is the way to go, and some other distro with MATE or xfce with a bleeding edge repository for experiments.
Clem is cautious, that's a good thing, and I should use Linux Mint for what it's good at... offering as Windows-like an experience as possible, without the malware or other things that would jeopardize data.
patton517
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by patton517 »

Linux should remain different to Windows. Isn't that the whole point? Its only when you switch that you realize what you've been missing instead of following mindlessly along with everyone else. There is no choice or flexibility to Windows. At least with Apple you know that choice and flexibility were murdered a long time ago. The freedom - in all senses - makes the switch alone worthwhile.
Myau
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Myau »

Well, if you wanna see an open-source system designed as much similar to windows as possible, take a look at ReactOS. I think it speaks for itself :mrgreen:
frodopogo
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by frodopogo »

No, patton,

You don't get it.

Windows has LOTS of freedom.... freedom to run LOTS of applications, and applications are what actually gets projects DONE... that's GOOD!


BUT
also freedom to get targeted by all kinds of malware, and then have pushy antivirus companies invade your computer and nag you about upgrading when you've already switched.... that's BAD.

And if someone has manage to put up with Windows since, say, Windows 95.... that's TWENTY YEARS of computer experience. They are probably at least 35, maybe older. They have deep seated habit patterns.... but they are SO TIRED of having to deal with malware and the solution for the malware that is worse than the problem. They really don't want something new just to have something new.... or something different to have something different. They have work to do, and would just like to get it done.
You could put it this way.... part of the freedom of Linux that's so appealing to us is that some distros are FREE to be as much like Windows as possible.
I've been keeping my eye on Zorin for example, among other things, I'd like a version of Linux to give to complete noobs that are even less tech oriented than I am.... but the reviews aren't that good... every review so far has had a major complaint. And something with major complaints doesn't sound like a good shot for total noobs. So far, Mint seems to be the winner in that aspect. For a while now, Mint has gotten nice boring reviews! No problems! I do also like it that Mint has a different esthetic.... I can live with grey, and I LIKE GREEN.
Anyway.... Mint's ranking at or near the top of the Distrowatch charts has a lot to do first with Windows refugees fleeing malware, and then Ubuntu refugees fleeing Unity and Gnome 3. Reliability and not being too different from Windows and/or Gnome 2 has whole bunches to do with that. And you probably have people offended by having a perfectly good computer be obsolete in 5 years, when Linux will give you 5 more years out of it, maybe more. Oh yeah, and now Windows itself is driving people away because THEY have made Windows 8 and above so different that anymore, the most traditional Windows experience you can get is to be found on.... LINUX!!!!
And probably Linux Mint! So now, by having Linux distros that work as much like XP or Windows 7 as possible..... you ARE being different from Windows... 8 and the up-and-coming 10!!!!
Strange world we live in, eh?
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nuagedeboucane
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by nuagedeboucane »

For me, it's really not a matter of beeing like or unlike Windows.



My very first reason was financial. I needed a free (as in free beer ) distro, because I couldn't afford to buy several licenses.

My second reason is luck: I' ve heard about Ubuntu. Someone in the family was using it. When I was googling about, I felt on Mint.

So, put the menu bar where you want to put it. I will take it as is. If it's completely different from Windows, so be it. When somebody gives me something for free, I won't complain.

I had Microsoft products since late 80's. I' m used to the XP desktop. But I'm no longer on XP. (Just keeping it because I have paid for it - dual booting - almost never using it )

I have learned MS-DOS. I have learned Windows. I was introduced to Unix, Minix. I'm learning Linux. - Different ways of using computers. Different approaches.
Habits are difficult to change, but I try to adapt, and I think I will succeed.
To repair something, you must break it before ;-)
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by xinu »

Okay.
Last edited by xinu on Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
exploder
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by exploder »

I gave up Windows a long time ago. I never expected Linux to work like Windows other than being point and click. Linux is not for everyone though and some people are better off staying with Windows. I am happy with my choice and will never return to Windows, it just isn't for me.
reddot

Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by reddot »

i never want linux to be like windows, but i would like some programs that are in windows on linux. Like photoshop, dreamwever, and quicken (non-web). I personally think windows xp was the best, and second on windows 7. Windows 8 is way to noobish look at img below.

Image

i started using windows 95 in 95/96 and really never knew other operating systems existed until maybe 2000. I discovered distro watch by accident and found out about linux around late 2009, i tried some random ones including the top in distro watch opensuse, fedora, ubuntu, xubuntu, kubuntu, pclinuxos. i fell in love with ubuntu 10.04 then 10.10 i got into gnome 2. what i really like about any linux distro (what i tried) is they were all fast login and shutdown, and way easier and faster to install programs. And also theres a bunch of DE/GUI out there. I also feel linux is way more stable i have never really killed my system like i have on windows xp and 7. I was dual booting windows 7 and ubuntu 10.10 and one day i got a virus on my windows 7 and it got a blue screen of death in boot, i was a paranoid user in windows i was supper carefull what i did and i still managed to destroy it, lol. That was the last time i was on windows (late 2010) now im a dedicated linux user. I just came from switching Xubuntu 14.04 LTS to linux mint 17.1 mate and man i love it. it hasnt let me down.

i currently use
Gimp
Aptana studio 3
GNUcash
Filezilla
Thunderbird
Pidgin
Skype
Opera (cant wait for Vivaldi to get off beta!!!)
Firefox
Vlc
Deluge
Hexchat
sanity rising
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by sanity rising »

Enjoying Linux and occasionally having friends and relatives around, sometimes they want to check their emails or settle a friendly argument. So i fire up my pc and say okay use it...but then they notice it's not Windows and i have to explain some of the differences. But that seems like a lot of work to learn new things and remember a few simple commands (i hear this a lot), so now i will point them to this site and feel less like a stuck record explaining it lol.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by in-gold »

Nice article. As an alternative to the motorcycle vs car analogy I would prefer motorcycle vs bus. In a a bus people get on at various places and arrive at different places with the driver having root access. Windows assumes all home users want shopping, news, weather, movies whatever. The only place to board this car is IE and Bing, or some version of it via the metro/modern interface. Microsoft drives the car and everybody just sit down and shut up and everyone gets there. When a Linux user wants to do the same thing, there are more ways to board the bus and get there.

Suppose someone wants to create a spreadsheet. Windows: pay a subscription fee for office 365 and sit down and shut up. Linux: Hmmm, should I use Libre? Open office? Gnumeric? koffice? staroffice? gnome-office? abacus?

Get on the bus: http://www.linuxlinks.com/Software/Spreadsheets/
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by NeoGeo64 »

This thread is really old!
reddot

Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by reddot »

in-gold wrote:Nice article. As an alternative to the motorcycle vs car analogy I would prefer motorcycle vs bus. In a a bus people get on at various places and arrive at different places with the driver having root access. Windows assumes all home users want shopping, news, weather, movies whatever. The only place to board this car is IE and Bing, or some version of it via the metro/modern interface. Microsoft drives the car and everybody just sit down and shut up and everyone gets there. When a Linux user wants to do the same thing, there are more ways to board the bus and get there.

Suppose someone wants to create a spreadsheet. Windows: pay a subscription fee for office 365 and sit down and shut up. Linux: Hmmm, should I use Libre? Open office? Gnumeric? koffice? staroffice? gnome-office? abacus?

Get on the bus: http://www.linuxlinks.com/Software/Spreadsheets/
You just blew my fudge mind

"arrive at different places with the driver having root access"
that made me laugh hard
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Re:

Post by Quexos »

jbaerbock wrote:Yeah I always did play with legos a lot growing up :D.
Pfffft! Tinker Toys were vastly superior!!1
frodopogo
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by frodopogo »

There is some truth to the article, and yet.

Part of the freedom of Linux is that it can be made to work HOWEVER YOU WANT. No corporation is dictating to you.
But you also have the freedom to make it work like a corporate sponsored operating system, like a Mac, like Windows, if you want, or use desktops and such that have been designed by others to do so.

When you actually use Windows or a Mac, it's the corporation dictating to you.

In the Linux World, oddly, it's long time Linux users who try to do the dictating:

"NO..... Linux is not Windows..... it shouldn't look like Windows!"

Why not???

There's no inherent reason.
The main reason is simply a long-standing hatred or loathing of things from Microsoft. That's somewhat understandable, they've made themselves easy to hate. If that's how you feel, by all means, keep your Linux install from looking or acting like Windows. But if the desktop is merely a tool for someone to get work done, and they are used to the Microsoft version of the tool, Linux tweaked to look and/or act like Windows makes for a better version of the tool.

Speaking as a Windows refugee who came over from XP for version 5 Elyssa, it certainly wasn't the look or feel that drove me away from Windows.
It was the lack of security, the sometimes obnoxious anti-virus companies (McAfee!), the tendency of Windows to slow down, stuff like that.
Linux Mint was attractive precisely because it was more Windows-like than Ubuntu.... it was the most popular Windows-like distro.
Now, over the years, I've come to appreciate things about Linux Mint that AREN'T like Windows.... but it took time.

Anyway.... Linux veterans.... use Linux how YOU want....
but let the Windows refugees use Linux how THEY want. It's just another aspect of the freedom Linux offers.
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martienne
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by martienne »

Would be pretty cool though: If somebody made a Linux distro that does all the GOOD things form Windows 10 and looked like Windows 10, but wasn't evil and didn't spy.....

That said; apart from slick GUI, a lot of the "cool" new features are hand-in-hand with the spying features so it might not be possible.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by ALF13 »

martienne wrote:Would be pretty cool though: If somebody made a Linux distro that does all the GOOD things form Windows 10 and looked like Windows 10, but wasn't evil and didn't spy.....

That said; apart from slick GUI, a lot of the "cool" new features are hand-in-hand with the spying features so it might not be possible.
http://www.mslinux.org/

Agh, excuse me but can you please tell me what are these GOOD thigs from WIndow 10? Because after windows XP every next window they made is total crap and garbage - except windows 7 (which is now fine for gaming, but in the beginning it was total garbage as well). MS pisses me off with every stupid crash,bug,virus, their dumb sense for user experience, their useless changes in GUI, place of buttons, the additional crap they put everywhere, IE. And why is this all about ? Because they don't have enough time to make a good polished OS in the deadlines, so when you buy a new version of windows - you pay ton of $ just to get an windows some kind of alpha or if the release is even number (98, xp, 7) a beta version.
They change everything for people to feel that this is a new page of OS industry, but at the end it is the same crap. I don't say that nobody should use windows - it was out there for a long time and it has some benefits as well - e.g. native gaming (better video drivers and more games - but I hope Steam will change that) and some other things.
But for the most time I was windows user - I felt like something on core level is wrong with windows.

So please tell me - what are these GOOD thigs from WIndow 10?
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by BigEasy »

Because I'm a tech I never feel Windows is crap. I always knew what I do with Windows, why I do and what will do Windows in responce. For example if I know that Windows updates takes a long time then I plan my work accordingly.
I'm Windows user from 1991 and Unix-like user from same time. Every OS is great in hands of peolpe who like to learn something.
Windows assumes I'm stupid but Linux demands proof of it
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killer de bug
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by killer de bug »

BigEasy wrote:Because I'm tech I never feel Windows is crap.
I'm an engineer, and I think it's a poorly designed system.
BigEasy wrote:For example if I know that Windows updates takes a long time then I plan my work accordingly.
This is applicable on your personal computer. Not one from a company. If there are updates available, the system starts to show pop-up to reboot on a regular basis. If you try to forget about them, because you are working and it's no time to reboot, your processor will end up over heating. You will have to reboot in a matter of hours anyway. How is this possible? The system forces you to reboot.

Last week, I had to reboot 4 times in a row to install all the updates. In the middle of my working day... As if I have time for this childish game.

I have even seen an upgrade pushed by the IT in order to install a new version of IE. It closed my current session of IE without asking me to install the new version... :shock:
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
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