Why I am back on 17.3 for now...

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mattlach
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Why I am back on 17.3 for now...

Post by mattlach » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:25 pm

So, I wasted a good chunk of yesterday trying to install Mint 18 Cinnamon Edition, and just had way too many problems, and thus I am back on 17.3 again.

Problems I had:

1.) Intermittently the search bar in the menu would not work. Instead when i typed, text would show up in my previously active window.

2.a) GUI Network manager interferes with manually configured (in /etc/network/interfaces ) bonded network interface using ifenslave. Everything works except DNS. I can reach the outside world, just not resolve domain names.

2.b) Turns out GUI Network manager now can handle bonded interfaces using ifenslave. It works well, EXCEPT it always - no matter what you do - defaults to the bonded connection being "off" upon boot, which means the boot will wait for an active network connection and take for bloody ever to complete, and when it does, I'd need to press the "on/off" button in the GUI network manager to turn it back on again in order to have network connectivity. After this I'd need to manually mount all of my NFS mounts, as they wouldn't automatically mount at boot time, due to there being no network.

3.) While trying to troubleshoot the above, after one reboot, I was reduced to Cinnamon hanging on boot, pinning 2 cores (200% CPU) and only displaying a black screen with a mouse pointer.

I guess I just feel that Mint 18 maybe was released a little prematurely, and isn't quite ready yet. I haven't had system breaking problems like this with an upgrade in a LONG LONG time. I will check back in a month or two and see how things are going.

Taa taa for now.


Ps.
The bug where FAT32 formatted USB sticks are write only in Nautilus (and only in nautilus, work fine from other file managers, and the command line) first introduced in Mint 15 over 3 years ago still isn't fixed in this release.
Desktop: Intel i7-3930K@4.8Ghz, Asus P9X79 WS, 64GB DDR3-1866, 400GB Intel 750 SSD, Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Nvidia Titan X (Pascal)
Laptop: Dell E7470, Core i7-6600u, 8GB
Proxmox (NAS, Mythbuntu, etc.): 2x Xeon L5640, 192GB RAM, 120TB ZFS

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Pierre
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Re: Why I am back on 17.3 for now...

Post by Pierre » Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:04 am

when dealing with any new system - - you really need to test it out thoroughly yourself.

that is - don't rely on feedback from others, they aren't using your hardware.
:o
typically, you would test the ISO in a VB environment, for any issues,
& then write that ISO to a bootable medium & test that in a VB environment, for any issues.

finally, you would check that medium on a non-production, bare metal installation.
& only then, would you declare the newly released system - - reliable.

once you've achieved that milestone - - you can run an 'Install Festival' with any available hardware.
:D
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Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] - when your problem is solved!
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Trapper
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Re: Why I am back on 17.3 for now...

Post by Trapper » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:34 pm

LM18 is inheriting many of its woes from Ubuntu 16.04. Others are directly related to LM18. Add to that semi buggy kernels now in use and a lot of problems are surfacing for a lot of users. Many people are happy and say everything runs great. Many people are not happy because they have hardware that should work easily with LM18 but does not.

We have also decided to remain off of LM18 for now. We have a couple of years or so to stay with LM17x. Hopefully in that period LM18 finds much greater stabilization. We will maintain LM18 test boxes and are also actively testing other systemd based competitors to debian systemd based systems to determine how well they are fairing in comparison.

Lots of time for lots to happen.

itsme4401
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Re: Why I am back on 17.3 for now...

Post by itsme4401 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:21 pm

Why I am back on 17.3 for now...
Because better is the enemy of good; this is the ad lib translation of an old Dutch proverb.

mattlach
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Re: Why I am back on 17.3 for now...

Post by mattlach » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:58 pm

mattlach wrote: 2.a) GUI Network manager interferes with manually configured (in /etc/network/interfaces ) bonded network interface using ifenslave. Everything works except DNS. I can reach the outside world, just not resolve domain names.

2.b) Turns out GUI Network manager now can handle bonded interfaces using ifenslave. It works well, EXCEPT it always - no matter what you do - defaults to the bonded connection being "off" upon boot, which means the boot will wait for an active network connection and take for bloody ever to complete, and when it does, I'd need to press the "on/off" button in the GUI network manager to turn it back on again in order to have network connectivity. After this I'd need to manually mount all of my NFS mounts, as they wouldn't automatically mount at boot time, due to there being no network.
Solved the above with assistance from Jeremy B in this thread.
mattlach wrote: 3.) While trying to troubleshoot the above, after one reboot, I was reduced to Cinnamon hanging on boot, pinning 2 cores (200% CPU) and only displaying a black screen with a mouse pointer.
This is still happening intermittently, and why I am still running Mint 18 side by side with 17.3, and haven't switched over completely yet.
Desktop: Intel i7-3930K@4.8Ghz, Asus P9X79 WS, 64GB DDR3-1866, 400GB Intel 750 SSD, Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Nvidia Titan X (Pascal)
Laptop: Dell E7470, Core i7-6600u, 8GB
Proxmox (NAS, Mythbuntu, etc.): 2x Xeon L5640, 192GB RAM, 120TB ZFS

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trytip
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Re: Why I am back on 17.3 for now...

Post by trytip » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:15 pm

so if mint is not bleeding edge software, then why would someone update to the latest? this i don't understand about mint. and why is it that people upgrading to 18 never know the ramblings of linux. every upgrade is in it's own a new entity, which is why linux will never make it in with the big boys.

the fact it should be that every upgrade must build upon the previous system and not break user space: first rule of linux which is always broken by upgrades
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mattlach
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Re: Why I am back on 17.3 for now...

Post by mattlach » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:20 pm

trytip wrote:so if mint is not bleeding edge software, then why would someone update to the latest? this i don't understand about mint.
It's easier to get newer distributions with newer kernels to work with newer hardware.

Sure, you can manually install newer kernels and hardware drivers in older distributions, and get it to work, but I like keeping everything in the package manager, as it is cleaner that way.

Also, there are some major changes in the upstream Ubuntu way of doing things going from 17.x (14.04 LTS Trusty) to 18 (16.04 LTS Xenial) and I have a desire to keep with the times and understand the underpinnings and how to configure things as we go along.

Thus far - however - I still feel like Ubuntu's 14.04 LTS is their best and most reliable release to date, and the downstream Mint 17.x have been the most stable and reliable of Mint's releases to date.
Desktop: Intel i7-3930K@4.8Ghz, Asus P9X79 WS, 64GB DDR3-1866, 400GB Intel 750 SSD, Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Nvidia Titan X (Pascal)
Laptop: Dell E7470, Core i7-6600u, 8GB
Proxmox (NAS, Mythbuntu, etc.): 2x Xeon L5640, 192GB RAM, 120TB ZFS

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trytip
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Re: Why I am back on 17.3 for now...

Post by trytip » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:34 pm

current stable kernel is: 4.6.3, the least you can do to a distro is have the decency to have your users choose new stable kernels. but just like debian and ubuntu kernels are WAY behind on their upgrades. so we're left with installing hundreds of ppa just to get the latest upgrade.

widnows: 10,000+ people developing software for ONE entity
linox: 10,000+ people developing software for 10,000+ entities

united we stand divided we FALL ... linux is not united therefore, !!!
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mattlach
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Re: Why I am back on 17.3 for now...

Post by mattlach » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:07 pm

trytip wrote:current stable kernel is: 4.6.3, the least you can do to a distro is have the decency to have your users choose new stable kernels. but just like debian and ubuntu kernels are WAY behind on their upgrades. so we're left with installing hundreds of ppa just to get the latest upgrade.

widnows: 10,000+ people developing software for ONE entity
linox: 10,000+ people developing software for 10,000+ entities

united we stand divided we FALL ... linux is not united therefore, !!!
You'll find that very few distributions are using th every latest stable kernels. They want to do stability and compatibility testing with their releases individually, in addition to what the kernel developers do, and this takes time.

Unless you are running bleeding edge hardware, this is usually fine, but can sometimes be annoying.
Desktop: Intel i7-3930K@4.8Ghz, Asus P9X79 WS, 64GB DDR3-1866, 400GB Intel 750 SSD, Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Nvidia Titan X (Pascal)
Laptop: Dell E7470, Core i7-6600u, 8GB
Proxmox (NAS, Mythbuntu, etc.): 2x Xeon L5640, 192GB RAM, 120TB ZFS

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poliltimmy
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Re: Why I am back on 17.3 for now...

Post by poliltimmy » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:17 am

This is the buggiest install since, well it seems forever. Locks up regularly. Hard reboot is only way out. The 4.4 kernel should be abandoned.

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Pierre
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Re: Why I am back on 17.3 for now...

Post by Pierre » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:54 am

@poliltimmy :
well - I've not done any extensive testing, as yet,
But - - on my Lenovo laptop(s) LM18 seems to work, just fine.
:D
as it did in some VB testing, just last week.

so - - it possibly is something with your PCs hardware ??
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Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] - when your problem is solved!
and DO LOOK at those Unanswered Topics - - you may be able to answer some!.

Cosmo.
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Re: Why I am back on 17.3 for now...

Post by Cosmo. » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:48 am

What makes you think, that the kernel is the culprit?

mattlach
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Re: Why I am back on 17.3 for now...

Post by mattlach » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:56 am

Pierre wrote:@poliltimmy :
well - I've not done any extensive testing, as yet,
But - - on my Lenovo laptop(s) LM18 seems to work, just fine.
:D
as it did in some VB testing, just last week.

so - - it possibly is something with your PCs hardware ??
Certainly hardware can impact stability, but that doesn't mean there is something WRONG with the hardware, especially if you are coming off a perfectly stable 17.3 or other install.

Software needs to be tested against a variety of hardware to make sure it is stable on as much of it as possible.

Your laptop may have a combination of hardware for which Mint 18 works well. That doesn't mean with will work well on all hardware, even if that hardware is working well within its acceptable tolerances.
Desktop: Intel i7-3930K@4.8Ghz, Asus P9X79 WS, 64GB DDR3-1866, 400GB Intel 750 SSD, Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Nvidia Titan X (Pascal)
Laptop: Dell E7470, Core i7-6600u, 8GB
Proxmox (NAS, Mythbuntu, etc.): 2x Xeon L5640, 192GB RAM, 120TB ZFS

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