Hoser Rob wrote:I don't agree with the decision to omit it but jeez, the solution isn't hard ...
If you know enough to want to use synaptic you should know that.
This has already been stated and accepted. That is not in question and most of us would accept that.
It does not stop us questioning the decision regardless.
To my mind it smacks a little too much of the recent trend of "You don't need that dear, it's too complex for you. Let me remove it for you." That kind of logic can be applied to almost anything. Mint is not a lightweight or legacy hardware distro. It is supposed to be a fully functional, ready to go desktop distro. So removing functionality seems to defy Mint's operating paradigm.
Also, I am doubly peeved because I actually anticipated the day Mint would drop synaptic and go all in with the software manager and so I suggested adding Synaptic like functionality to the said software manager.
And was very quickly and firmly shot down and told to use Synaptic.
So, for me the conversation has become:
"Can we add queuing of install items to the software manager as with Synaptic?"
"No. The software manager is for the standard, casual user who just wants to install one app on occasion. We are not changing it. We are not adding complexity to the software manager. Use Synaptic instead - that's what it is there for!"
"Oh, all right than."
"And, by the way, we're dropping Synaptic."
I always figured that the software manager would become THE installer in Mint but the dev team seemed determined to keep the software manager "simples." So removing Synaptic from the install really is a case of removing functionality. And that means the Mint team could argue that any matter of 'non-essential/techie' stuff could go.
Who needs the power of GIMP? Not most of us so that can go.
How many of know enough to repartition hard disks? Very few. So the partition manager can go.
Most people do not scan images so Xsane can go.
Heck, most Mint users do not use KDE which has losttsf config operation and ‘confusing’ customization so that can go and free up development time…
etc, etc.
If the dev team were dropping Synaptic but adding a 'pro mode' for the software manager - I could understand that! But this is not on the road map and, when I suggested it, I was shot down.
So, yes, the solution is simple. You can install Synaptic from the software manager; forget apt.
But I feel a little put out since I anticipated this day and when I raised this the Mint team said "No! Go use Synaptic."
And we have ended up where I expected.
What worries me is then the precedent has been set for removal of functionality on the grounds, we thin - in the absence of any explanation from the dev team at this time - that Synaptic is just 'too techie.' And that is the reasoning that gave us GNOME 3, Unity, Windows 8, heck, the MacOS!
Taken to its logical extreme, Mint could just be a lightweight distro, no software installed and the user selects whatever software they want. Or, the other potential extreme, the user is supplied a few basic apps that will not tax the brain and shut off from installation of other apps!
Extreme, I know, and I do not think that would happen but the 'logic' of removing Synaptic, in the absence of any explanation, makes the Mint teams 'apparent decision... puzzling.
If there is a technical explanation, I could understand that.
I could also handle a replacement for lost functionality such as Muon being offered on install or new functionality being added to the software manager but none of that is on the roadmap.
And, frankly, I am rather tired of being told by every OS provider on Earth almost; “You can’t have that – it’s too techie for you.”
Bear in mind that I am now running my own business and am responsible for my own software support. Yes, I can get synaptic downloaded but this sends the wrong signal to a small businessman like myself. (Never thought I would describe myself like that in the past!)
Clem is a smart guy with his feet on the ground so if Synaptic has to go I can go with it, given, as you rightly say, it can be installed. I have installed Muon to have a trial just to prove your point. It seems a LOT better and lot more Synaptic like that when I last looked at I. Damn thing was unusable in Kubuntu! All it did was pump adverts at me! But I, for once, could do with an explanation for the decision and would appreciate some means to replace the lost functionality.
Mint is not supposed to be full desktop OS, not ChromeOS or Ubuntu smartphone wannbee OS. Just removing functionality seems at odds with the Mint philosophy.
I am now a small businessman. I need to maintain four, hopefully five laptops and a desktop. I need some power tools. Mint has provided those tools in install. Mint is supposed to be for users like me and provided those tools in the past. (ChromeOS is not going to cut it for me!)
Now the Mint team is removing one of those tools.
In itself not a huge issue. In terms of direction… worrying.
Personally… if I were on the dev team – yes, I know, I am not and Mint is free.. I am just thinking ‘out loud’ I would announce the removal of synaptic but also the inclusion of a pro mode or a simple ‘queue’ button in the software manager to put maintenance in one single app.
I would Clem and co… graciously, grovellingly, to consider this.
Is that so big a hurdle?
