Software Manager: How can I help keep it's offerings up to date?

Questions about the project and the distribution - obviously no support questions here please
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XP-refugee
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Software Manager: How can I help keep it's offerings up to date?

Post by XP-refugee » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:34 pm

I've found the current version of gImageReader available through Software Manager (Version 3.1.2 I think) just gives me n copies of the same one page, where n is the number of pdf pages being OCR'ed.

Whereas Version 3.2.3 available here, at
Sandro Mani's launchpad page, works as expected and gives me one OCR page per page of PDF.

What can I do in situations like this to help keep the program versions offered by Software Manager up to date?

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catweazel
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Re: Software Manager: How can I help keep it's offerings up to date?

Post by catweazel » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:37 pm

XP-refugee wrote:What can I do in situations like this to help keep the program versions offered by Software Manager up to date?
Nothing. If you want more up to date versions, as you've already discovered, you need to find newer sources.
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. - Max Planck

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Re: Software Manager: How can I help keep it's offerings up to date?

Post by Pjotr » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:00 pm

Define "up to date". :)

You may expect security updates to your current older application version. Usually cherry-picked, so you'll probably stay with the old main version of the application.

However, if it works reasonably well and is being kept secure, ask yourself: why would I want that newer main version of the application so badly?

Explanation:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... r-updates-
(item 3, left column)
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Re: Software Manager: How can I help keep it's offerings up to date?

Post by all41 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:25 pm

The introduction on that page is defining:
"You can update your system with unsupported packages from this untrusted PPA"
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Re: Software Manager: How can I help keep it's offerings up to date?

Post by stormryder » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:29 pm

all41 wrote:"You can update your system with unsupported packages from this untrusted PPA"
If you don't trust the actual developer of the software why would you even consider installing it just because its in the software manager?
I certainly don't trust software manager anymore since it installed wine as a dependency without informing me. At least when I get it from the developer I can find out what else comes along with it.
Why do people hate independent software developers so much? Lots of good software doesn't have the privilege of being favored by the maintainers of the repository.

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Re: Software Manager: How can I help keep it's offerings up to date?

Post by XP-refugee » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:38 am

I'm puzzled.

XP-refugee wrote, "I've found the current version of gImageReader available through Software Manager (Version 3.1.2 I think) just gives me n copies of the same one page, where n is the number of pdf pages being OCR'ed."

Pjotr, apparently in reply wrote, "However, if it works reasonably well and is being kept secure, ask yourself: why would I want that newer main version of the application so badly?".

To me it looks like the the answer has already been supplied.
I'll clarify.
The version currently available through Software Manager results in a file of 165 copies of the same one page if I feed it a 165 page pdf.
Whereas I want 165 different output pages.

What with catweazel's reply of "Nothing. If you want more up to date versions, as you've already discovered, you need to find newer sources", to my question,
"What can I do in situations like this to help keep the program versions offered by Software Manager up to date?", it looks like I've touched on a sore point.

Where do I read up about how the Software Manager is maintained?

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Re: Software Manager: How can I help keep it's offerings up to date?

Post by XP-refugee » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:43 am

The explanation offered here https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... r-updates-
for the presence of non-functional software in Software Manager fails to take into account the needs of many low tech users who just need something that works out of the box.

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Re: Software Manager: How can I help keep it's offerings up to date?

Post by Pjotr » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:32 am

@XP-refugee: fair enough.... But note that your question was a bit more general than that. :)

In this particular case the usage of a PPA might indeed be a good idea. Because it solves a serious usability bug. But that doesn't mean that this should be done to solve all kinds of bugs.

@stormryder: the answer is stability and reliability of your system. Only the software in the official software sources has been tested by the Ubuntu/Mint developers, to work without disrupting the system and/or other applications. Think of stuff like overwriting essential shared libraries and such.
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Re: Software Manager: How can I help keep it's offerings up to date?

Post by Hoser Rob » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:05 pm

There's always a conflict in Linux between having a stable OS and having the bewest software. The reason is a big Linux dirty secret: there's very little backwards compatibility in Linux. Or forwards compatibility either.

So newer versions that aren't tested for your point release are pretty likely to not work, and because Linux uses so manyb shared libraries, you can easily also break other programs too.

If you have to have the newest of everything you'll need to forget long term support releases like Mint and use a true rolling release distro like Arch. However these distros are not for beginners.

This definitely bugs a lot of Linux noobs ... this forum and ubuntuforums have a ton of similar threads. It doesn't bother me particularly. Even when I used Windows I didn't feel the need to have current versions of everything.

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Re: Software Manager: How can I help keep it's offerings up to date?

Post by Appoloin » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:27 pm

Hoser Rob wrote:The reason is a big Linux dirty secret: there's very little backwards compatibility in Linux. Or forwards compatibility either..
Isn't that the point of having flatpak. The application is self contained so doesn't change the system and system updates don't affect it.

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Re: Software Manager: How can I help keep it's offerings up to date?

Post by stormryder » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:00 pm

XP-refugee wrote:What can I do in situations like this to help keep the program versions offered by Software Manager up to date?
The most accepted way is to do as you already have done and install from a PPA then I think you should receive updates for it from the manager. No need for a rolling release for just one or two programs.
Pjotr wrote:has been tested
Tested by who I wonder, the compiler?
http://www.makehumancommunity.org/wiki/ ... man_and...
I realize this might not be that common, but with thousands of people compiling for the repository I doubt this is the only case of such poor testing and maintenance.
I see that a stable version of MH is finally available now with mint 18 but it seems just as likely to be neglected the way it was before.
Pjotr wrote:Think of stuff like overwriting essential shared libraries and such
That's actually why I don't use PPAs or .Debs. I run everything like that extracted from tars in my home folder or compile it myself.
I've had more problems with the update manager breaking stuff than any of my independently installed software.
Appoloin wrote:The application is self contained so doesn't change the system and system updates don't affect it.
Good point.
Flatpaks are funny though, they update automatically in the background without informing the user. You can turn it off in startup applications but then you have to update them from the command line and the packages tend to be quite a bit larger because they install their own runtime environment.

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Re: Software Manager: How can I help keep it's offerings up to date?

Post by Petermint » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:20 am

Flatpacks: In another topic, the user found a flatpack to be incredibly slow. The flatpack appears to have pushed his 2 GB machine into massive paging.

PPAs: A PPA may contain only the application package you need or it may contain a huge collection of packages used by the developer. I use PPAs to get the current release of Darktable and a couple of other applications. One PPA wrecked Mint by replacing important packages and the only recovery was to restore from a backup.

Additional repositories: You can add extra repositories and place them at a lower priority so they do not overwrite anything. You can then selectively install from a specific repository. You can get the current Skype from the Skype repository.

There are also applications that provide the latest version in a downloadable .DEB file.

Linux. You are spoilt for choice.

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Re: Software Manager: How can I help keep it's offerings up to date?

Post by Hoser Rob » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:31 am

Appoloin wrote:
Hoser Rob wrote:The reason is a big Linux dirty secret: there's very little backwards compatibility in Linux. Or forwards compatibility either..
Isn't that the point of having flatpak. The application is self contained so doesn't change the system and system updates don't affect it.
Yes, that's one reason for flatpaks. But they aren't going to please everyone. Those who think Linux is for making old computers useable because they basically have a Linux runtime enviroment bundled within. So you're losing the efficiency of Linux right there.

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