Censorship on the forum

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Pat D
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Censorship on the forum

Post by Pat D » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:08 am

I believe that some people involved in this forum are "censoring" posts based on the sensibilities of their nationality, not for honest reasons.
It needs to stop.
Linux and Linux Mint are international communities. Just because you and your neighbours don't approve of other people's talk, you don't have the right to shut it down.
This is a deal-breaker on a large scale - you can't have any kind of "community" or whatever if you're getting censored.

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catweazel
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by catweazel » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:23 am

Pat D wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:08 am
I believe that some people involved in this forum are "censoring" posts based on the sensibilities of their nationality, not for honest reasons.
It needs to stop.
Linux and Linux Mint are international communities. Just because you and your neighbours don't approve of other people's talk, you don't have the right to shut it down.
This is a deal-breaker on a large scale - you can't have any kind of "community" or whatever if you're getting censored.
What exactly are you going on about?

Sometimes the mods will edit posts to remove cussing or, in some cases, delete an entire thread if it's too controversial. This is a family-friendly forum after all.
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chrisuk
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by chrisuk » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:29 am

I've seen only very few possible examples of what (I think) you mean over the last 10 years... of those examples, I only remember one being flagged by other users. So although the behaviour may exist, it's not common, nor something anyone else even notices. IMO, the Mods do a pretty good job moderating the forum, but they're only human.

Also ""censoring" posts based on the sensibilities of their nationality" would suggest they are preventing others of that nationality from being offended... which is their job, isn't it?

(You'd need to give examples of what you mean, else some might suspect that you're trolling. Are you accusing all Mods? Also, have you reported this behaviour to Admins (not Mods)? What response did you get?)
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catweazel
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by catweazel » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:07 am

Pat D wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:08 am
"censoring"
I found this: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=266354#p1448443, where you say:
I must be hallucinating.
Otherwise these posts are being censored.
If a mod had edited your post then it would show who edited and when at the bottom of the post. That thread contains no such indications, ergo you must be hallucinating.
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by NietGiftig » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:44 am

Pat D wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:08 am
I believe that some people involved in this forum are "censoring" posts based on the sensibilities of their nationality, not for honest reasons.
It needs to stop.
Linux and Linux Mint are international communities. Just because you and your neighbours don't approve of other people's talk, you don't have the right to shut it down.
This is a deal-breaker on a large scale - you can't have any kind of "community" or whatever if you're getting censored.
I think you are right, post of mine also disappeared, no remark or anything.
Very bad thing!
Just not be critical on moderators or their friends and your posts are safe.
(this post will likely also disappear, but yes, there are a lot of ... life people on this earth)

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MintBean
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by MintBean » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:48 am

Without specific examples it's hard to comment. A couple of points here:

1) The concept of free speech does not necessarily extend to a forum. This is equivalent to 'being in someone's house' and they can impose their own rules.
2) That said, mods are (and should be) bound by the same rules as the rest of us. They are here to enforce the stated forum rules and shouldn't be censoring anything that is within those rules.

Honestly in my time here I've only seen one instance where I thought a mod overstepped the mark and in fairness they reassessed and apologised for the incident. I think these guys do a pretty good job all said and done, and they are giving their time for free.

Cosmo.
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Cosmo. » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:51 am

catweazel wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:07 am
If a mod had edited your post then it would show who edited and when at the bottom of the post.
Not necessarily. A mod can (technically) edit a post without leaving a track. If and why (s)he does so, is another question. This is in difference to normal users, where any edit gets automatically publicly visible noted, except if it is the last post in the thread.

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catweazel
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by catweazel » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:57 am

Cosmo. wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:51 am
catweazel wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:07 am
If a mod had edited your post then it would show who edited and when at the bottom of the post.
Not necessarily.
As a general rule, what I wrote is correct. viewtopic.php?f=58&t=266177

I see no reason to split hairs.
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Pjotr
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Pjotr » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:01 am

NietGiftig wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:44 am
Just not be critical on moderators or their friends and your posts are safe.
(this post will likely also disappear, but yes, there are a lot of ... life people on this earth)
That sounds like unfounded dumb conspiracy thinking. Give proof or stop slandering.
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Moem
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Moem » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:02 am

Mods will usually state the nature and reason of an edit. But they are technically able to edit 'invisibly', like Cosmo. says.
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

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Moem
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Moem » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:07 am

NietGiftig wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:44 am
I think you are right, post of mine also disappeared, no remark or anything.
Very bad thing!
If you dislike that, fair enough... but then you shouldn't have agreed with it when you signed up for this forum.
The user agreement clearly states that You agree that “Linux Mint Forums” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. MintBean is completely right when they're saying above that "The concept of free speech does not necessarily extend to a forum."
NietGiftig wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:44 am
Just not be critical on moderators or their friends and your posts are safe.
(this post will likely also disappear, but yes, there are a lot of ... life people on this earth)
It's still here. Now what? :wink:
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

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MintBean
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by MintBean » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:29 am

It's still here. Now what? :wink:
Shhh... stop ruining a good yarn... :wink:

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Sir Charles
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Sir Charles » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:47 am

Recently I posted a thread (Banned from a forum. No the whole thread was deleted!), in the Open Chat, after getting the message " You are not authorized to read this forum" regarding another thread (Gender Identity) to find out why this was being the case. I learned that the thread in question was deleted.

In the new thread some mention of the "science" and the "scientific knowledge" was made. I am not sure what was being said about the science stepped on some Anti-Scientific toes, but one member deemed that what was being discussed was a continuation of the themes of the deleted thread even though not a mention of "Gender" was made. This member called for the attention of a mod who locked the whole thread away for the reason that the discussion was not having any relation with the inquiry in the OP that "has been asked and answered".

While true, I couldn't and cannot still understand why, after all in the "Open Chat" forum, even if the ensuing discussion had no relation to the the inquiry in the OP, it was not tolearted. And I still cannot see what discussing science in general has anything to do with the discussion of the particular issue of the "Gender Identity".

Having said that, regarding what follows:
Moem wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:07 am
MintBean is completely right when they're saying above that "The concept of free speech does not necessarily extend to a forum."
I wouldn't go as far to call this censorship, but it certainly looks like putting muzzle on anyone uttering anything that are deemed to be uncomfortable by the officials or by some random member.
I suppose that's one of the ironies of life, doing the wrong thing at the right moment -C.C.

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karlchen
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by karlchen » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:20 am

Let me make the statement below a bit more precise:
Mods will usually state the nature and reason of an edit. But they are technically able to edit 'invisibly', like Cosmo. says.
Correct. Yet, even if a moderator edits a post without adding a comment that editing has been done, so normal users will not be able to tell, the "moderator logs" will reveal so nonetheless. Yet, as they are "moderator logs", they are visible to the forum staff only.
Most moderator activities will leave traces in the "moderator logs".
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Flemur » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:11 am

I don't see any missing posts. :D
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
Your data and OS are backed up....right?

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chrisuk
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by chrisuk » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:18 am

Flemur wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:11 am
I don't see any missing posts. :D
I bet Google sees them... they was cached before the Mods deleted them ;)
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Schultz
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Schultz » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:24 am

Marziano wrote:
I am not sure what was being said about the science stepped on some Anti-Scientific toes,
Well, probably confrontation statements like this one. I'll say it again: Scientists aren't infallible. Remember the ice age we were supposedly headed for in the 70s?

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Sir Charles
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Sir Charles » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:32 am

Schultz wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:24 am
Marziano wrote:
I am not sure what was being said about the science stepped on some Anti-Scientific toes,
Well, probably confrontation statements like this one. I'll say it again: Scientists aren't infallible. Remember the ice age we were supposedly headed for in the 70s?
Well, if you go back and read that thread, you wouldn't find any. This was my after-the-fact observation. And I am not going to discuss this matter further here risking this thread to be shutdown.
I suppose that's one of the ironies of life, doing the wrong thing at the right moment -C.C.

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Moem
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Moem » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:54 am

Marziano wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:47 am
I am not sure what was being said about the science stepped on some Anti-Scientific toes
No. That was not why the thread was locked. As explained, the thread was locked to prevent it from becoming a continuation of the gender identity thread. And the question 'why can I not get into that thread anymore?' had been answered.
Marziano wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:47 am
And I still cannot see what discussing science in general has anything to do with the discussion of the particular issue of the "Gender Identity".
In the gender identity thread, people were using their belief (or lack thereof) in science as a means to shore up their beliefs about gender identity. We did not need for that to continue by proxy in a different thread.

If you want to have a discussion about the merits of science, all by itself, I see no reason not to start such a thread.

Sometimes, threads are locked because a moderator simply feels that they have outlived their usefulness and nothing good can be expected from letting them continue. This is something that needs to be decided on a case by case basis, based on our expectations of what will happen next, which in turn is based on our experience in these forums. Sometimes we're a little too early in doing this, other times we're a little too late, and sometimes opinions amongst the mods will differ.
Members will not always understand these decisions, or agree with them. That's just how it goes.
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Sir Charles
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Sir Charles » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:06 pm

Moem wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:54 am
Members will not always understand these decisions, or agree with them.
On this, I totally agree with you :)
I suppose that's one of the ironies of life, doing the wrong thing at the right moment -C.C.

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