Configuring Samba

Connection sharing, Firewall, Samba..etc
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hornetster
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Configuring Samba

Post by hornetster » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:58 pm

Not sure if this is the correct forum for BETA queries, but can't find any other..
Have just installed V19 Cinnamon x64, and have attempted to install/configure Samba.
Have installed Samba + system-config-samba, but there is no evidence that anything has been installed...
Nothing in the menus, no way of configuring anything, although smbpasswd exists, and can setup a password.
Is it a completely manual task to configure samba?
Also trying to browse the network using Nemo, and can only see 'some' of my local windows/samba clients.

Is this a mint issue, or a beta issue?
Any help appreciated.
Thanks.

altair4
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Re: Configuring Samba

Post by altair4 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:06 am

Welcome to the wonderful world of Samba on the Linux desktop.
Have installed Samba + system-config-samba, but there is no evidence that anything has been installed...
It wouldn't matter if it did add an entry into the menu since it will not run.

There are a number of internal dependancy issues with it and the launcher isn't set correctly:
mint@mint:~$ cat /usr/share/applications/system-config-samba.desktop | grep Exec
Exec = gksu system-config-samba
There is no gksu in Mint19 and you can't just substitute pkexec for it without creating a polkit "rule" for it. Combine that with the application not having been updated since Version 3 of samba and you have something which should just be removed from the repository: Please remove system-config-samba from Ubuntu

Ubuntu / Mint would apparently prefer you just create shares from Nautilus / Nemo or create your own share definitions in smb.conf manually.
Also trying to browse the network using Nemo, and can only see 'some' of my local windows/samba clients.
You shouldn't be able to see any of your Windows hosts. You can "fix(?)" that if you want: Mint 19 and Samba File Sharing Changes
Please add a [SOLVED] at the end of your original subject header if your question has been answered and solved.

hornetster
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Re: Configuring Samba

Post by hornetster » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:21 am

Thanks for the reply, altair4.
The following is a general query.
Seriously? Isn't networking (particularly Samba) rather important in a real-world operating system, these days? How many people these days use a PC as a standalone device? Sharing files, even in a domestic/Windows dominated situation, these days is rather important.
Will this be updated at any stage?
Do I need to choose a different distro, if I need capable networking?
I was choosing Mint, as I had heard that it is a "simple" and "capable(?)" distribution.
Thanks.

altair4
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Re: Configuring Samba

Post by altair4 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:20 am

Gosh. it's almost like you are begging me to rant about this subject.

** First off for me personally you are preaching to the choir since samba is pretty much all I do in Linux forums these days..

** The system-config-samba problem is an Ubuntu issue not a Mint issue.

It was a utility created by Ubuntu but it's never been updated and Debian never wanted any part of it. The package manager for it who is supposed to make sure that all the dependencies are satisfied and that it runs has apparently moved on to macOS.

** The netbios discovery problem is a Samba issue.

They needed a way for smbclient to connect to Win10 and changing the client protocol did that. But they didn't think this trough to the end user who is using a desktop. Gnome gets in the way as well and Gnome's main mission is to remove function not add it.

** By one name or another Windows does samba and macOS replaced it's own file sharing system with samba years ago. That's 98% ( depending on whose numbers you believe ) of the desktop market. Add to that all of the network appliances who run samba so that they are compatible with Windows and macOS and you have near universality of protocol.

The people who put desktop Linux together are hard core Linux users and someone told them a long time ago that Samba is just for Windows. No amount of facts to the contrary will change their minds so there is no emphasis on it.

There is one irony in all this. The way things have turned out if all of your machines are running Ubuntu 17.10, Ubuntu 18.04, or macOS the whole samba experience is seamless. Install samba, create a share, and the whole network can see it and It does that without any Windows discovery mechanism. It's become the default sharing mechanism for Linux. It's only Windows it has a problem with.

I don't think moving on to another distro will solve the problem. But should you find one let me know.
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j8a
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Re: Configuring Samba

Post by j8a » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:58 pm

Hi, I have been using SAMBA at work for the last 15 years since we decided to use Ubuntu servers and I also used Ubuntu and Mint as a desktop user. I could recommend you to keep trying to setup the right way that SAMBA is installed and configured in each distro. Afterwards, take care because SAMBA was changing the way to connect services since the systemd appearance. I could tell you It became easy to setup printers, share folders with different operating systems as altair4 told you.
Please, consider to read this usefull post.
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=270442

rambo919
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Re: Configuring Samba

Post by rambo919 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:52 am

What struck me about that link was you could either connect to pre-win10 PC's or win10 PC's..... which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.... how blind (for lack of a stronger term I want to use) do you have to be to just assume everyone suddenly uses win10? Myself I'd even use winXP if I needed to but that's just me.

"Hardcore" linux users kinda infuriate and amuse me at the same time... you have to put extra effort into being that (insert strong term).

altair4
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Re: Configuring Samba

Post by altair4 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:18 am

rambo919 wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:52 am
What struck me about that link was you could either connect to pre-win10 PC's or win10 PC's..... which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.... how blind (for lack of a stronger term I want to use) do you have to be to just assume everyone suddenly uses win10? Myself I'd even use winXP if I needed to but that's just me.

"Hardcore" linux users kinda infuriate and amuse me at the same time... you have to put extra effort into being that (insert strong term).
While I agree with your sentiment the problem and it's solution is much more comical.

When a Linux samba client accesses a SMB/Samba server it negotiates with that server the best smb dialect to use between two values set within the default configuration: client min protocol & client max protocol. Historically the min = CORE ( which goes all the way back to the beginning and predates NT1 ) and max = default ( which was set to NT1 which is SMB1 ).

The problem Win10 created was that it disabled SMB1. That made this negotiation impossible. The solution for Samba was easy: Change the max to better fit a server who disabled SMB1 so samba changed the max to SMB3_11. And it works. Access a WinXP machine and you will use SMB1, WinVista SMB2, Win10, macOS, or another Linux server SMB3.

The problem was host discovery - the ability to scan the network for samba servers by its netbios name. There is nothing in this smb dialect negotiation process that should break it but that is exactly what happened. Samba itself fixed it for the smbtree utility which scans the network by temporarily dropping down to SMB1 to do the scan.

But Nautilus, Thunar, Nemo, etc.,, use gvfsd-smb-browse to scan the network not smbtree and that appears to be where the problem is located. The Gnome people either:

[1] Didn't get the memo on all this.
[2] Did get the memo but since it's a samba thing ignored it.
[3] Did get the memo, are OK with it being a Samba thing, but determined that this looked too much like a feature and Gnome never adds features. They only remove them.

I should note that macOS which has its own home grown version of Samba has no problem with this. It can scan the network and access SMB / Samba servers just fine thank you very much.
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rambo919
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Re: Configuring Samba

Post by rambo919 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:37 am

Somehow I just know it was probably #3.... just to prove that not only M$ has lost what was left of its mind we have "instead of solving it ignore it till it goes away".

Last time I tried getting samba to work was on mint 18.2. The linux machines obeyed all rules.... windows machines had full write access no matter what I did... I dropped attempting sharing completely. And this was all win7 machines.

Now if only the "hardcore" people could get their heads out of their behinds and make a new GUI tool that.... actually works for longer than a year. Samba is confusing enough without having to mess with text files and no clue what half the options do because the documentation is ALSO confusing..

Personally my theory is these people dont want the supposed "year of linux" to happen, too many girls in the treehouse and curtains/rugs everywhere.

altair4
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Re: Configuring Samba

Post by altair4 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:53 am

Speaking of Windows ... Win10 found itself in the exact same situation when they decided to do this: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... in-windows
... Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Professional still contain the SMBv1 client by default after a clean installation. If the SMBv1 client is not used for 15 days in total (excluding the computer being turned off), it automatically uninstalls itself.
Well, no SMB1 on the client side and there is no netbios host discovery on the client side. Windows itself uses another method for host discovery so it's not an issue in an all Windows network but you can forget about seeing any Linux samba server or any of the NAS devices that may be attached to the network.
Please add a [SOLVED] at the end of your original subject header if your question has been answered and solved.

rambo919
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Re: Configuring Samba

Post by rambo919 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:03 am

For a more GUI experience configuring samba there is opensuse with yast but I have yet to manage NOT crippling something somewhere somehow (with no clue how I did it) accidentally with that system.... think last time I killed my internet access when trying to figure out the firewall and could not get it back even though I undid all changes.

rambo919
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Re: Configuring Samba

Post by rambo919 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:05 am

"it automatically uninstalls itself.".... great minds making those type of big brother decisions arnt they?

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