A Sad Day for Mint

FargerLake · Post by **FargerLake** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:46 am

I love Mint, I have always loved Mint, and, I appreciate all of the hours that have been spent in the development of Mint. I have been building computers, installing operating systems, and, fixing technical issues for decades. But, now the time has come, where, Mint will not boot after install, on countless computers, and, that is too bad. Normally, I meet an unhappy Windows user, (and we all know that there are plenty of those), and, I hand them a Mint thumb drive. They load up their PC at home, and, they are happy Mint users. Not any more, it seems that those days are over, and I am not blaming Mint. It seems that I either have to perform a BIOS update for their computer, fight with UEFI, trading Legacy/Secure Boot/Etc. settings, over and over again, and, most times, the customer, ends up more frustrated with installing Mint, than they ever were with Windows. This is probably the work of some Microsoft employee, happy to make millions of potential Linux users, stay with Windows. Well, after my thousands of Linux installs, I am personally so fed up, that, not only am I going to stop installing Linux for others. I am going to put Windows back on my personal computers. Linux has become far too much of a hassle. It's a sad day, but, it was nice while it lasted, and, I thank you all for that. Dave

Website · Post by **Moem** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:03 am

Mod note:
Moved out of the Support section since there is no question in this post.

Pjotr · Post by **Pjotr** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:25 am

Weird. Personally, I have no problems at all when installing Linux Mint, even on very new hardware.

Sure, it has become somewhat more difficult with UEFI, but once you know the tricks (main trick: move Windows Boot Loader down on the boot priority list in the UEFI settings), it's still a cinch.

The title of this thread strikes me as a bit precocious, by the way.

catweazel · Post by **catweazel** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:28 am

Pjotr wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:25 am The title of this thread strikes me as a bit precocious, by the way.

I think the whole thing is, given he's never posted and asked for assistance.

Pjotr · Post by **Pjotr** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:35 am

catweazel wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:28 am
Pjotr wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:25 am The title of this thread strikes me as a bit precocious, by the way.
I think the whole thing is, given he's never posted and asked for assistance.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's just an "alter ego" of this guy:
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=277686

First post, no assistance asked, just one big rant. That's always suspicious.

Website · Post by **Moem** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:47 am

It's not a sad day for Mint just because it's a sad day for Dave.

catweazel · Post by **catweazel** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:03 am

Pjotr wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:35 am I wouldn't be surprised if he's just an "alter ego" of this guy:
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=277686

First post, no assistance asked, just one big rant. That's always suspicious.

That crossed my mind but I couldn't be bothered looking for the post. I think you're right.

Edit: I did a little digging. The proprietor of Irwin Electronics is named David

deepakdeshp · Post by **deepakdeshp** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:11 am

FargerLake wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:46 am I love Mint, I have always loved Mint, and, I appreciate all of the hours that have been spent in the development of Mint. I have been building computers, installing operating systems, and, fixing technical issues for decades. But, now the time has come, where, Mint will not boot after install, on countless computers, and, that is too bad. Normally, I meet an unhappy Windows user, (and we all know that there are plenty of those), and, I hand them a Mint thumb drive. They load up their PC at home, and, they are happy Mint users. Not any more, it seems that those days are over, and I am not blaming Mint. It seems that I either have to perform a BIOS update for their computer, fight with UEFI, trading Legacy/Secure Boot/Etc. settings, over and over again, and, most times, the customer, ends up more frustrated with installing Mint, than they ever were with Windows. This is probably the work of some Microsoft employee, happy to make millions of potential Linux users, stay with Windows. Well, after my thousands of Linux installs, I am personally so fed up, that, not only am I going to stop installing Linux for others. I am going to put Windows back on my personal computers. Linux has become far too much of a hassle. It's a sad day, but, it was nice while it lasted, and, I thank you all for that. Dave

As indicated by others you could have asked for assistance and the excellent members would have provided it. Its a pity that you moved back to Windows even on your own computers which are already running Linux.
I am running Mint on a computer for 4 years now, without a single hitch.

Pjotr · Post by **Pjotr** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:14 am

catweazel wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:03 am
Pjotr wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:35 am I wouldn't be surprised if he's just an "alter ego" of this guy:
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=277686

First post, no assistance asked, just one big rant. That's always suspicious.
That crossed my mind but I couldn't be bothered looking for the post. I think you're right.

Edit: I did a little digging. The proprietor of Irwin Electronics is named David

Looks like we may have caught someone with a multiple personality.

DAMIEN1307 · Post by **DAMIEN1307** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:17 am

the op stated "I have been building computers, installing operating systems, and, fixing technical issues for decades." and also " after my thousands of Linux installs, I am personally so fed up, that, not only am I going to stop installing Linux for others. I am going to put Windows back on my personal computers. Linux has become far too much of a hassle."...what we have here is nothing more than an ego/pride situation with the op who may well be the other alter ego op on the other thread...they post "one post wonders" never asking for help but express their indignation against either mint in particular or linux in general, not understanding the fact that they have been "fixing technical issues for decades." but have not been advancing their own personal knowledge to stay up to date...i wonder if this is what TV repairmen also said when tvs no longer had vacuum tubes and were frustrated in not being able to service newer integrated circuit, tubeless tvs that now have computerisation built into them...in the automotive business, ive heard mechanics say they are giving up because they cannot troubleshoot motor vehicles any longer because they are so computerised now...the same with computer hardware, software, firmware, etc....time marches on and with it comes changes in how to do things...personally im happy not using dos, fortran, etc. or using 56k modems connecting to aol, juno etc...those who do not keep up with changes get left behind...likewise, those who are too proud or egotistical in there "old school" knowledge who never ask for help and instead "wax nostalgic" for the "good old days" are also left behind and unfortunately will never be happy because what ever they thinki is going to be easier or better, seldom is because guess what?...their modernising as well...so i am truly sad for the op but no...it is not a sad day for mint or linux...DAMIEN

MurphCID · Post by **MurphCID** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:49 am

DAMIEN1307 wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:17 am the op stated "I have been building computers, installing operating systems, and, fixing technical issues for decades." and also " after my thousands of Linux installs, I am personally so fed up, that, not only am I going to stop installing Linux for others. I am going to put Windows back on my personal computers. Linux has become far too much of a hassle."...what we have here is nothing more than an ego/pride situation with the op who may well be the other alter ego op on the other thread...they post "one post wonders" never asking for help but express their indignation against either mint in particular or linux in general, not understanding the fact that they have been "fixing technical issues for decades." but have not been advancing their own personal knowledge to stay up to date...i wonder if this is what TV repairmen also said when tvs no longer had vacuum tubes and were frustrated in not being able to service newer integrated circuit, tubeless tvs that now have computerisation built into them...in the automotive business, ive heard mechanics say they are giving up because they cannot troubleshoot motor vehicles any longer because they are so computerised now...the same with computer hardware, software, firmware, etc....time marches on and with it comes changes in how to do things...personally im happy not using dos, fortran, etc. or using 56k modems connecting to aol, juno etc...those who do not keep up with changes get left behind...likewise, those who are too proud or egotistical in there "old school" knowledge who never ask for help and instead "wax nostalgic" for the "good old days" are also left behind and unfortunately will never be happy because what ever they thinki is going to be easier or better, seldom is because guess what?...their modernising as well...so i am truly sad for the op but no...it is not a sad day for mint or linux...DAMIEN

Well it is a little annoying to discover that there are "secret: settings in BIOS that you have to tweak to get Linux to load. I had fits with my little HP Spectre x360, and it was annoying. I hope that those smarter and better at code can fix this little issue with UEFI and Secure Boot. I grant he went about it the wrong way, but there is still a problem to some degree.

DAMIEN1307 · Post by **DAMIEN1307** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:19 am

keep in mind that those "secret" settings in bios has nothing to do with the developers at all...in your case, you can thank HP for that because microsoft told them that things like fastboot for enabling windows hybrid shutdown, secure boot which is for windows boot up manager etc are required for windows operating systems...microsoft dominates the desktop market and the computer makers kowtow to microsofts demands...and none of the different makers bios/uefi are alike...what would you like developers to do of a situation that is not in their control other than tell you in the plainly written install instructions that these things need to be disabled in order to install?...you cannot alter the manufacturers built in bios/uefi coding...there is no magic "one size fits all" code to be able to do this in varying makers systems...these are the things that computer users need to learn about in order to truly take ownership of their own systems...DAMIEN

Website · Post by **Moem** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:25 am

DAMIEN1307 wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:19 am keep in mind that those "secret" settings in bios has nothing to do with the developers at all...in your case, you can thank HP for that

Note that the OP explicitly says he doesn't blame Mint.

DAMIEN1307 · Post by **DAMIEN1307** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:29 am

hi moem...that was for murphcid where he mentioned what i was replying to...

Well it is a little annoying to discover that there are "secret: settings in BIOS that you have to tweak to get Linux to load. I had fits with my little HP Spectre x360, and it was annoying. I hope that those smarter and better at code can fix this little issue with UEFI and Secure Boot. I grant he went about it the wrong way, but there is still a problem to some degree.

note that he mentioned coders and I construed that to mean developers

I hope that those smarter and better at code can fix this little issue with UEFI and Secure Boot

altair4 · Post by **altair4** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:15 am

It is also a sad day for the Paragraph. May it rest in peace.

catweazel · Post by **catweazel** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:16 am

altair4 wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:15 am It is also a sad day for the Paragraph. May it rest in peace.

And... the... full... stop... not... to... mention... the... ellipsis...

sdibaja · Post by **sdibaja** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:40 am

FargerLake wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:46 am I love Mint, I have always loved Mint, and, I appreciate all of the hours that have been spent in the development of Mint. I have been building computers, installing operating systems, and, fixing technical issues for decades. But, now the time has come, where, Mint will not boot after install, on countless computers, and, that is too bad. Normally, I meet an unhappy Windows user, (and we all know that there are plenty of those), and, I hand them a Mint thumb drive. They load up their PC at home, and, they are happy Mint users. Not any more, it seems that those days are over, and I am not blaming Mint. It seems that I either have to perform a BIOS update for their computer, fight with UEFI, trading Legacy/Secure Boot/Etc. settings, over and over again, and, most times, the customer, ends up more frustrated with installing Mint, than they ever were with Windows. This is probably the work of some Microsoft employee, happy to make millions of potential Linux users, stay with Windows. Well, after my thousands of Linux installs, I am personally so fed up, that, not only am I going to stop installing Linux for others. I am going to put Windows back on my personal computers. Linux has become far too much of a hassle. It's a sad day, but, it was nice while it lasted, and, I thank you all for that. Dave

well, you have triggered a bunch of people... now let's get back on topic.

I feel your pain. Yes, UEFI has made simple installation a nightmare.
I have several HP computers, and all of them have Different UEFI options in the BIOS, the menus are a mess and not consistent.
Other manufactures have not done much better.

BTW: I was recently informed and corrected... UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) was not invented by Microsoft, google it...
the Wikipedia article is informative. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_E ... _Interface

Linux Mint could further their cause by making some better instructions on how to get started.

BTW: There are many many other distros out there. Start looking and doing some test installs.
installers range from super simple (can be invasive) to complex (powerful and provide options to fit most any use case)
the Linux Mint installer is not the easiest by far.

in closing, don't give up on all of Linux because of your frustration with the Linux Mint installer.

PS: paragraphs would sure help!

DAMIEN1307 · Post by **DAMIEN1307** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:54 am

hi altair4, hi catweazel...massacred those punctuations, paragraphs and ellipses didnt i...just doing my bit to "disambiguate", (pun intended), proper english sentence structure ...lol...DAMIEN

BG405 · Post by **BG405** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:49 am

DAMIEN1307 wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:17 am i wonder if this is what TV repairmen also said when tvs no longer had vacuum tubes and were frustrated in not being able to service newer integrated circuit, tubeless tvs that now have computerisation built into them

Some did indeed use it as an opportunity to retire. What really killed off most of the TV service trade, though, was when TVs started to become disposable items.

DAMIEN1307 wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:17 am one post wonders

Not sure if "activity" includes logging in to look at replies (and in any case, if the OP visits without logging in, we won't see them) but I see quite a lot of stats like this:

Code: Select all

Joined:
    17 Sep 2018, 05:32
Last active:
    17 Sep 2018, 05:46
Total posts:
    1

More like a "hit and run", this one!

JerryF · Post by **JerryF** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:50 am

catweazel wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:16 am
altair4 wrote: ⤴Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:15 am It is also a sad day for the Paragraph. May it rest in peace.
And... the... full... stop... not... to... mention... the... ellipsis...

altair4 and catweazel, now the "only one space after a sentence" is creeping in too. I'm an administrative assistant and create documents for others. I've been told that one space is now "ok".

Even here in the forum, when two spaces are put in after a period, the two spaces are changed to one space.

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