What sends noobs running back to Windows?

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mediclaser
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by mediclaser » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:22 pm

MurphCID wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:19 am
So Blu-Ray players are NOT supported under Linux? That is good to know.
Why would it be good?
If you're looking for a greener Linux pasture, you won't find any that is greener than Linux Mint. ;)

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MurphCID
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by MurphCID » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:46 pm

mediclaser wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:22 pm
MurphCID wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:19 am
So Blu-Ray players are NOT supported under Linux? That is good to know.
Why would it be good?
SO that I can tweak it, or get the proper codecs.

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MurphCID
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by MurphCID » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:46 pm

First real hard look review, and it is NOT good. https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/lin ... tessa.html

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David Chiang
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by David Chiang » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:07 pm

MurphCID wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:46 pm
First real hard look review, and it is NOT good.
Thanks for the link, it's a very good one!
Apparently a lot has been overlooked here by the developers or not verified critical enough. The half-heartedness with which Tessa was assembled is visible to everyone today. In the current state, the operating system (Mint) is hardly pleasing, rather disappointing! Anyway, at DistroWatch right now is Mint still in the top five, but that may change relatively quickly also. Not always this leads to a flight back to Windows, but at least one then tries to get one or the other distribution to work. :roll:
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by carum carvi » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:23 pm

David Chiang wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:07 pm
Not always this leads to a flight back to Windows, but at least one then tries to get one or the other distribution to work. :roll:
That was true for me as well. I first tried LinuxMint 17 some years back. Then back to Windows7. Then Ubuntu. Then Ubuntu Studio. Then back to Windows 7 again.
And finally I was delighted to discover the existence of LinuxMint Cinnamon 18. It did everything I could wish for.

Now the grass always seems to be greener on the other side, so after hearing several positive experiences from forummembers about MXLinux and Peppermint I tried those as well. MXLinux has got the usual deadboring Xfce design and just is not user friendly. Peppermint really pleased me though, but it couldnt do one thing straight out of the box, that I really needed: enlarge all the different font sizes to the exact size I preferred. Maybe I will search for a solution for that later on, because Peppermint did steal my heart. Pepermint to me is a perfect compromise between Cinnamon and Xfce.

Cinnamon still pleases me the most though. I love it. But I am being off topic now and I should leave this thread because I noticed I have gotten so fond of LinuxMint Cinnamon that I just have more and more difficulty remembering WHY Windows was ever an option to turn back to. Well there were a few small reasons, consisting of Windows software which I didnt know an immediate substitute for in Mint18, but I have found those as well now.... :D
Last edited by carum carvi on Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by ronkz » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:16 pm

Well, I've been trying to escape Windows for years. Now it's happened hopefully for good after going to a Dell laptop, having to upgrade from w8 to w10 which upgraded 3-4 times and finally corrupted itself to death. That was IT! Now I'm back to Cinnamon and was happy to find it now can provide a side taskbar. I started way back with MSDOS 2 and DOS always got my work done, which became no longer true with any windows; where I have paid a TON for software!
I'll not be running back anymore! It's still hard for me to learn the terminal stuff, after having learned DOS quite well.
Ditching WinDoze tough but necessary

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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by David Chiang » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:45 am

ronkz wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:16 pm
I'll not be running back anymore! It's still hard for me to learn the terminal stuff, after having learned DOS quite well.
I can understand that very well, it was exactly the same with me! Luckily, there are a lot of books for UNIX, if you understand this stuff reasonably well, then Linux is not that difficult. Most users, spoiled by Windows, try to use the terminal as rarely as possible, but that does not make working with Linux much easier. The conclusion is that if all operating systems in the world worked like a giant salad bar, then everyone would immediately have a perfect system without the slightest mistake! :lol:
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by MurphCID » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:37 am

I think that in the end it is games and gaming that ruins the linux experience for many. Mint is a complete, functional, easy to install, run, and use operating system, comes with everything someone needs (or in many cases wants), and is stable as all get out. But gaming is still a MS fiefdom. Linux gaming is still vaguely unsatisfying. Even Apple has given up on gaming. Gaming seems to be the driving force behind much of our innovation with faster, more frame rates, and THE POWAH! being what people want. Open GL/VULKAN vs DX 11/12+ is not a contest at this point. I would love to have more and better VULKAN game titles, but the sad fact is game companies code for Direct X.

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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by Pierre » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:47 am

ronkz wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:16 pm
Well, I've been trying to escape Windows for years.
~
I'll not be running back anymore! It's still hard for me to learn the terminal stuff, after having learned DOS quite well.
Nah - - you don't need the Terminal, that much anyway.
8)
it's an handy area, to know a bit about, but, you can easily avoid it - if you wish to do that.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by Schallaven » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:39 pm

MurphCID wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:37 am
I think that in the end it is games and gaming that ruins the linux experience for many. Mint is a complete, functional, easy to install, run, and use operating system, comes with everything someone needs (or in many cases wants), and is stable as all get out. But gaming is still a MS fiefdom. Linux gaming is still vaguely unsatisfying. Even Apple has given up on gaming. Gaming seems to be the driving force behind much of our innovation with faster, more frame rates, and THE POWAH! being what people want. Open GL/VULKAN vs DX 11/12+ is not a contest at this point. I would love to have more and better VULKAN game titles, but the sad fact is game companies code for Direct X.
The situation changed dramatically in the last decade. Yes, there are titles which have no native Linux binary and I know already that you, dear reader of this sentence, have already reflex-copied a list of 100 non-Linux games just to tell me off.

However, the truth is that a little more than 1/3 of Steam and GoG games (not counting the Dosbox/Emulation games) have Linux binaries officially (some games have them "hidden", i.e. not officially supported, so often you have to download a client from their website then; good to read the forums before buying/trying). And the trend is going up _not_ down. We should celebrate this more often!

Btw: No one nowadays "code for DirectX". Companies use game/graphic engines (that can be house made or commercially available such as Unity), which provide now support for so many platforms (not only PC but consoles) that it is often just a change of output to generate a Linux binary. You can see this, when companies switch from the last generation to a newer one (Firaxis Games is a good example) or exchange engines altogether; in contrast, companies that try to use their old engine(s) as long as possible (Bethesda is a good example here) are more likely to have no Linux version of their game.

As said, we should celebrate this more often by saying "Linux is doing good on gaming". It actually does (put away your copied list!). Instead, people keep saying "Linux != Gaming". I feel that by saying/praying "Linux != Gaming" over and over again, you might simply discourage people from trying. Things can work, now or in future. And people have simply to _accept_ that switching an operating system is like switching your XBox for a PS or a Switch or the like: there might be some exclusives you need to sacrifice.

By sacrificing (=paying), you might gain a lot more in the end. I sacrificed about half of my steam library, which is ok. Now, I only buy games (or get Humble Bundles) with Linux binaries. Simple. Yes, I can not play <titleA>, but I have still thousands of wonderful, modern, very good games (Civilization, Hollow Knight, War of the Overlord, etc) to enjoy. (And for the absolutely best games I have a Switch/3DS anyway :wink: )

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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by SuperBoby » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:10 pm

MurphCID wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:37 am
Open GL/VULKAN vs DX 11/12+ is not a contest at this point. I would love to have more and better VULKAN game titles, but the sad fact is game companies code for Direct X.
I'm convinced that Steam is going to change that in favor of Linux. They already have done a lot of work in this direction, and I'm pretty sure that in the years to come, this will steal Windows' throne for gaming. Let's hope for it !
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by MurphCID » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:44 pm

SuperBoby wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:10 pm
MurphCID wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:37 am
Open GL/VULKAN vs DX 11/12+ is not a contest at this point. I would love to have more and better VULKAN game titles, but the sad fact is game companies code for Direct X.
I'm convinced that Steam is going to change that in favor of Linux. They already have done a lot of work in this direction, and I'm pretty sure that in the years to come, this will steal Windows' throne for gaming. Let's hope for it !
I agree and have hopes, but still AAA titles such as Ghost Recon, Assassins Creed series, and such are not available, and it appears there are no plans to convert them.

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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by SuperBoby » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:12 am

MurphCID wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:44 pm
AAA titles such as Ghost Recon, Assassins Creed series, and such are not available, and it appears there are no plans to convert them.
I disagree :

https://www.protondb.com/search?q=assassin%27s%20creed
https://www.protondb.com/search?q=grand%20theft%20auto
https://www.protondb.com/search?q=the%20witcher

And it is only going to improve !
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by MurphCID » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:26 am

Ok, that is great, and I appreciate their hard work. But we need these games dropped to players close to the windows release in order to garner encourage adoption to Linux. Now another issue is programs that people depend on to run as I have stated previously such as Turbo Tax, iTunes, Photoshop (I know GIMP, it is almost as good, but it cannot import .NEF or other RAW files and convert them). Linux programs have a reputation as being: "Almost as good, but just not really there yet..." Which is what keeps me from 100% Linux adoption, I must have iTunes for my music library, Photoshop to process my photos from RAW files, and Turbo Tax to pay the yearly scot to the government.

But that being said, I have HOPE, and will continue to evangelize Linux at work, and I am astounded at what the good people at Mint Linux have done to make an absolutely outstanding operating system, and to pull all the parts together.

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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by MurphCID » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:24 am

Could it be that we have TOO MANY choices? Could there be too many distros, and none are demonstrably better than others (except for Mint)?

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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by lsemmens » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:36 pm

Gamers have always driven the desire for bigger, better, hardware. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but has the flow on effect that, the developers of said hardware follow the money. The software vendors follow suit. Games were developed for DOS, then Windows because of the large user base. Until we can convince enough game devs to work towards a native Linux variant of the more popular games we are unlikely to see any significant improvement in the uptake of Linux on the desktop market.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by michael louwe » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:51 am

Due to circumstances, I am now on a Cellular 4G/LTE Mobile Broadband Internet plan using a mid-range Android 8.0 device, instead of my former Immobile or Fixed Broadband using a dual-booted Linux/Win 7 laptop/desktop. Mobile Broadband often requires a Windows computer, eg to create an offline Android Factory Reset System Recovery backup on a microSD card from an OEM Stock Firmware iso file. Eg .......
https://www.cyanogenmods.org/forums/top ... re-finder/
https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-tether- ... et-2378228

Fyi, nowadays Cellular 4G/LTE Mobile Broadband can be quite affordable, may offer unlimited cellular data(on 4G/LTE) and voice-calls/SMS(still on 3G usually) but limited Hotspot, has a latency/ping of about 50 milliseconds = can play online games with little lag, download/upload speed of up to 100Mbps(average is up to 15Mbps by telcos).
....... There is also Cellular 4G/LTE Mobile Broadband for pure cellular data via a USB modem/router that has the SIM card inserted into it = cannot make cellular voice calls/SMS. Such modem/routers usually require Windows.

The old Cellular 3G Mobile Broadband was much slower, eg Edge = download speed 1.4Mbps maximum, HSPDA+ = 4.7Mbps max, miserable upload speed of 1.0Mbps max, and high ping = could not play online games. So, ensure that the Android/iOS device supports 4G/LTE and area coverage by 4G/LTE is present, eg rural areas are usually not covered by 4G/LTE cell-towers or even 3G. .......
https://www.pcmag.com/news/293905/3g-vs ... difference

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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by VinceC » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:06 pm

I wanted to play the devils advocate for a minute regarding games on Linux. Flight Gear specifically. In my efforts to get to learn Linux, I downloaded a bunch of games and most played great. Getting Flight Gear to work presents a situation that I believe would definitely make a noob run back to Windows. The game comes on, loads the scenery then just sits there with no ability to make any inputs. I did some searches. After 30 minutes or so of searching on the net, I found a site with instructions on how to attempt to fix the issue along with modifications one can make and/or download a customized upgraded version from someone...REALLY?

I wish to add that issue with Flight Gear happened on two separate computers, one (dual core w/4Gb Ram/SSD) running Ubuntu-Mate 64 bit and the second a Toshiba M45 w/ 2GB ram on an SSD running Mint Serena.
I believe It's situations such as these that frustrate new users so they just throw their hands up and run back to Windows.
As I said folks, no disrespect intended to anyone, I am a donating user of Linux.
I just wanted to throw this out there.
Cheers!

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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by Arch_Enemy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:38 am

MurphCID wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:46 pm
First real hard look review, and it is NOT good. https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/lin ... tessa.html
That guy hates Linux anyway...People who don't know what they're doing should stick with Windows.
(From another of his "Reviews"...)
Attachments
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I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by Arch_Enemy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:40 am

(I think that was his review of Arch...)
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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