Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

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Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by JoeFootball » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:05 am

After quite some time of toying with this, it looks like the Lubuntu team is finally making the switch from LXDE to LXQt official...
Lubuntu wrote:This is the first Lubuntu milestone to be released with LXQt as the main desktop environment. The Lubuntu project, in 18.10 and successive releases, will no longer support the LXDE desktop environment or tools, and will instead focus on the LXQt desktop environment.
https://lubuntu.me/cosmic-beta-released/

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by Hoser Rob » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:16 am

I guess LXQt is finally finished ... tried it once and it seemed nice but was obviously a work in progress so to speak. Still don't quite see the point of porting LXDE to Qt unless the developer was just bored. That seems to happen a lot with FOSS projects. But I think it'd be worth a spin.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by smurphos » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:48 am

Hoser Rob wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:16 am
porting LXDE to Qt unless the developer was just bored.
I believe he decided it was easier to port it from GTK2 to QT than from GTK2 to GTK3
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by Pjotr » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:54 am

Main disadvantage: I've heard that LXQt isn't as lightweight as LXDE....
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 19.2 Tina
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by Hoser Rob » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:10 am

Pjotr wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:54 am
Main disadvantage: I've heard that LXQt isn't as lightweight as LXDE....
Actually from my brief encounter with LXQt I'd have to agree.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by aes2011 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:02 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:54 am
Main disadvantage: I've heard that LXQt isn't as lightweight as LXDE....
Yes, but ... https://lubuntu.me/taking-a-new-direction/

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by Pjotr » Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:55 pm

aes2011 wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:02 pm
Pjotr wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:54 am
Main disadvantage: I've heard that LXQt isn't as lightweight as LXDE....
Yes, but ... https://lubuntu.me/taking-a-new-direction/
Yes, that's what I recall having read earlier. Which led me to make my previous remark. Thanks for the link.

Anyway, I'd have to test it for myself in order to be more specific. Hoser Rob's remark is interesting, and doesn't bode much good....
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 19.2 Tina
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by az2008 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:12 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:54 am
Main disadvantage: I've heard that LXQt isn't as lightweight as LXDE....
Hoser Rob wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:10 am
Actually from my brief encounter with LXQt I'd have to agree.
I've used Lubuntu LXDE for a few years. I didn't upgrade to the LXQt version until a few days ago. I liked LXDE very much. I don't need eye candy. But, as @smurphos suggested, apparently GTK2 is increasingly a problem. LXDE was becoming unstable for me. The desktop would crash, freeze. (GIMP was doing the same thing. It seemed related.).

Lubuntu LXQt is nice. More colorful. There's some things I don't care for. I don't know enough about these things to know how much is Lubuntu-specific themeing vs LXQt itself.

It's definitely not as lightweight. After boot (nothing running except the installed OS & desktop): 306,628 bytes memory used. (If I recall, it was about 120,000 when I last checked 2-3 years ago when using LXDE.).
  • EDIT: In a later post I mention that the above memory use was after install and customizing. Measured from booting the install media, it's 342,604. Also, I'm pretty sure I mispoke about 120,000 in the past. It was probably 220,000. In a later post I summarize the different distros I booted from install media.

There was a Lubuntu communication about a year ago saying Lubuntu's emphasis would no longer be on being lightweight (ex., now it includes LibreOffice). That's a valid direction, a larger community who wants it, etc. But, it seems odd to retain the name "L" (for lightweight). :) I suggested at that time they rename it to Qubuntu and leave the "L" domain for anyone who might want to pick up that flag.

Now I'm downloading Cinnamon & Mate just to look at them again (since lightweight isn't what it used to be), I want to re-think my choices (see how things compare again). I haven't looked at that for 3 years.

One thing I'm finding a potential roadblock: LXQt's PCManFM file manager has some kind of "juice" added to how it treats the mouse scrollwheel. It adds levity or enertia in it's gesture-like "spin." (You know how some websites use javascript to make your mouse scrollwheel do that? I think it's generally believed to be an unwanted incursion into your basic accessibility? That's my reaction to this QT version of PCManFM.).

There is a setting for how many lines the mouse should scroll. But, that applies to everything. If you dial that down to make the filemanager behave normally, then everything else (Featherpad, Firefox, Chrome) scroll too grudgingly. So, there's something baked into the file manager to behave differently. It's not configurable.

I'm finding that to be difficult to learn to live with. Hopefully things like that are just part of LXQt's youthfulness, still developing.

Or, maybe I'm looking at it wrong and need to just use it longer, get used it. I don't know. My initial impression is that LXQt doesn't have a concrete direction like DE had. It seems nebulous (to me). Kind of lightweight, but kind of popular, kind of feature-rich, kind of heavy, kind of... It seems like the target is not clear (the priorities). It will be what it will be. Maybe "mission creep" is the term I'm looking for. It's probably popular. I read that Lubuntu's usage went up *a lot* after LXQt was implemented. So... if the direction is subject to seeing where it goes... I suspect it's going to become large. The natural tendency of all desktops to compete that way (features, eye candy). If that results in a larger, happier user base, that's fine. It's great that people will be happy.

But, I wish there was something in between Puppy and LXQt (in terms of conservative features, size.) the way LXDE has been. (I know there's Xfce. It's never appealed to me.). I think I've read that LXDE development will continue. Maybe that will have life (and not be prone to breaking as GTK2 is increasingly outdated.).
Last edited by az2008 on Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by 8 ball » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:20 pm

I don't think they said LUbuntu was no longer focused on being lightweight- they said they're no longer targeting it at the oldest hardware (i.e. 32 bit machines.) Whilst it is no doubt heavier than LXDE it's still a lightweight desktop. I saw a comparison that showed it right on par with XFCE in terms of both memory and CPU... so that's pretty light.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by az2008 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:09 pm

8 ball wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:20 pm
I don't think they said LUbuntu was no longer focused on being lightweight- they said they're no longer targeting it at the oldest hardware (i.e. 32 bit machines.) Whilst it is no doubt heavier than LXDE it's still a lightweight desktop.
This was the communication: https://lubuntu.me/taking-a-new-direction/

It seemed like mixed priorities. I.e., "... Lubuntu will stay light, and for users with old systems, should still be usable. But we will no longer provide minimum system requirements and we will no longer primarily focus on older hardware."

"Light" ddidn't seem quantifiable in the new direction. I know min sys requirements are subjective. But, having none seemed to add to the change in direction (getting substantially larger).
8 ball wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:20 pm
I saw a comparison that showed it right on par with XFCE in terms of both memory and CPU... so that's pretty light.
I don't know what X is today. But, when I looked at Xubuntu 3 years ago (and compared it to Lubuntu then), it wasn't much larger than Lubuntu. 200k? If that's the same today then it would be more lightweight than the L flavor of Ubuntu (which was my point about how I think Qubuntu would be a more appropriate distro name these days.).

I'll download Xubutu too, since I'm comparing things again. My immediate motive isn't so much the weight as much as it not feeling as usable as it was. Mainly the mouse scrollwheel issue with the file manager. I don't think I'm going to get used to that (but, it's only been 2-3 days). The lightweight topic is more of a long-term thing I'd like to support. It appears to have been deprioritied enough that, although still light by comparison to other desktops... no telling where it's going. With memory usage up 200%(?), and Libreoffice added to the distro, clearly it's on a different track. The new direction was worded in a way that leaves that wide open to go where the community wishes. (Which isn't bad. But, it's increasingly appearing the community is going toward large. I wish there was something that minimalism more -- the way Lubuntu was more clearly prioritized upon that.).

Maybe there's not much demand for such a distro. I don't know. Lubuntu's direction might reflect that.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by KBD47 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:11 pm

Interesting that in the future Kubuntu may be the lightest Ubuntu version. I think Lubuntu made a big mistake leaving that title on the table. I can't count how many times over the years people pointed new users toward Lubuntu when they needed a lighter OS. If it is as heavy or heavier than Xfce or MATE I'm picking the more mature DE every time. Even Cinnamon won't be much heavier with effects turned off.
KDE lightweight now:
https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/9 ... at_kde_is/

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by 151tom » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:11 pm

I've found Linux Peppermint to be an excellent lightweight on my 2010 computers.

https://peppermintos.com/

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t

Post by az2008 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:30 pm

KBD47 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:11 pm
Interesting that in the future Kubuntu may be the lightest Ubuntu version. I think Lubuntu made a big mistake leaving that title on the table.
The vibe I got last year (the "new direction") was that they wanted to leave things open to see where it went. Not a commitment to lightweight, but some subjective boundaries about it not going too far either. A "wait and see" position.

I don't think that's wrong. But, retaining the "Lightweight" moniker seemed wrong to me. (I actually posted a comment to that "new directions" back then, suggesting naming the distro Qubuntu. Leave the "L" distro for anyone who might want to renew that lightweight emphasis. I don't see that comment now. Apparently it was deleted. Maybe it sounded snarky then. But, it does seem like a legitimate concern. MATE's priority is to be more minimal than what they could be with GTK3. At some point "lightweight" doesn't mean anything. I'm curious to see if Xubuntu is lighter weight now. It wasn't that much heavier back when I looked 3 years ago. Maybe 20%.).

It's a nice distro. I believe I saw something posted on the mailing list about installations increasing since they implemented LXQt desktop. That's good. I may stick with it. I'm just reviewing what's available, what feels right today. From what I remember 3 years ago, the new Lubuntu might be about as large as Mint's Cinnamon and Mate. But, maybe those have grown too. (I don't know how much of this is a moving target for *everyone*.). I'm looking forward to test driving them all again. I'm far from rigid on this topic. My main motivation to revisit distros is the file manager's "decorating" my mouse with "whee!" velocity. That bothers me because it bothers when web sites do that. But, that could just be me too. People have been using LXQt for awhile. I assume everyone else is fine with that. (Maybe I should examine installing a different file manager. Maybe that's the proper reaction.).
KBD47 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:11 pm
I can't count how many times over the years people pointed new users toward Lubuntu when they needed a lighter OS. If it is as heavy or heavier than Xfce or MATE I'm picking the more mature DE every time. Even Cinnamon won't be much heavier with effects turned off.
KDE lightweight now:
https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/9 ... at_kde_is/
Thanks, I'll look at Kubuntu too. I wouldn't have looked at it. I'm among the people who have come to believe KDE is large.

I'm definitely a minimalist and would like to support something that is more like what [L]Qubuntu was. Not as far as Puppy. I'll look at Peppermint. I've heard good things about it. SparkyLinux too. (I see @151Tom likes Peppermint!).

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Re: t

Post by KBD47 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:01 pm

az2008 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:30 pm

Thanks, I'll look at Kubuntu too. I wouldn't have looked at it. I'm among the people who have come to believe KDE is large.

I'm definitely a minimalist and would like to support something that is more like what [L]Qubuntu was. Not as far as Puppy. I'll look at Peppermint. I've heard good things about it. SparkyLinux too. (I see @151Tom likes Peppermint!).
KDE used to be a hog that you could tweak to be half-way decent. But they have tightened it up since Plasma 5? and it has been shocking how much lighter it is now. Plus most of the other DE's seemed to run a bit heavier gtk3? I've got the ram on my machines to run anything, but I like a lightweight system that runs cooler.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by 8 ball » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:10 pm

I'll second that comment on KDE/plasma desktop - they've really optimised it in the last couple of years. I actually moved from Mint Cinnamon to KDE Neon because Mint 19 was regularly spinning my laptop fans up even at idle - no such problem with Neon and it's showing considerably lower CPU usage.

I still love Mint but I think it suffers from the Gnome shell base - although I understand both Gnome and Cinnamon are having a lot of optimisation work put in on them. It's just that KDE's already there.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by az2008 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:20 pm

az2008 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:12 pm
Lubuntu 19.04 LXQT: 306,628 bytes memory used.
FYI: I just booted Cinnamon 19.1 & Mate 19.1. Using the "free" command:

Code: Select all

Cinnamon 19.1: 515,888
Mate 19.1:     391,800
When I disabled the background in Mate, the mem dropped to: 378,328.
  • EDIT: I mention later that I believe I left the desktop/background panel open when used the "free" command. A subsequent boot produced that same memory usage with the panel open. When I closed it: 367,068. Next I disabled some animation in the desktop settings. When I closed that dialog: 348,588.
I didn't think of doing that in Cinnamon. I did disable Cinn.'s "effects." One of them required reboot (which I couldn't think of how to do from the install media without losing the config change I just made).

But, this reminded me that the Lubuntu LXQt memory usage (quoted above) was after I installed and modified things (turned off the background). I just booted Lubuntu 19.4 from install media: memory usage was 342,604.

=====

I'm going to look at some other distros and will report back what I see.

If I were to switch to Mint, I like Mate better. Cinnamon is very attractive, but more than I need. Mate seems simpler, more my style.

Does anyone know if MATE is vulnerable to GTK-2 getting old? I mentioned previously that it seemed LXDE (based upon GTK-2) was becoming unstable (desktop would freeze, crash). I think MATE was created by people who liked GTK-2 better than 3? So, I'm wondering if it has any risks with GTK-2 being old?
Last edited by az2008 on Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by az2008 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:43 pm

8 ball wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:10 pm
I'll second that comment on KDE/plasma desktop - they've really optimised it in the last couple of years. I actually moved from Mint Cinnamon to KDE Neon...
I never heard of Neon. That looks interesting. I'll boot that one too.

Many years ago I liked the appearance of KDE because it reminded me of OS/2. I was a big fan of OS/2. But, then it seemed to have a reputation for being heavy. I think there was some controversy back then with licensing. I got in the habit of steering away from it. I looked at Kubuntu about 3 years ago. I don't recall much about it. It seemed too esoteric somehow (like the Unity desktop seemed to me). Too different. But, looking at screenshots of Neon... it doesn't look like what I thought I saw then.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by az2008 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:21 am

151tom wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:11 pm
I've found Linux Peppermint to be an excellent lightweight on my 2010 computers.
I just booted it (334,528 bytes. Disabling the background image didn't change that. Probably would if configured that way and rebooted.). I like the look/feel. They have a good philosophy.
  • EDIT: In a later post I booted Peppermint again. It was 314,108. When I booted it in this post I had trouble finding the terminal. I explored some menus which might have inflated the memory use. (Also, it was clarified to me that Peppermint doesn't use LXDE, just a couple components from it.).
It uses LXDE. I was having some desktop freezing/crashing which I believe ended up being attributable to LXDE's use of GTK-2. I'm nervous about that resuming, or things getting worse over time. I don't know much about it, but I thought I read the future of LXDE was uncertain. If that's true, then I might bypass what could be a short stay with Peppermint. (I posted to their forum asking for thoughts. I don't recall this being discussed on the Lubuntu mailing list. Probably because the plan was to replace it. Therefore, its future wasn't a concern for Lubuntu.).

I'd like to do it. It's familiar to me. Intuitive. Unless there's a risk of it being a dead end, I'll probably go that way. Otherwise I'd probably do KDE or MATE.
8 ball wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:10 pm
I'll second that comment on KDE/plasma desktop - they've really optimised it in the last couple of years.
I booted Neon Plasma KDE. (383,356. Removing the background image didn't change that, but it probably would rebooted that way.).

I like how configurable it is. It was snappy on my laptop (a budget model).

It would take some time getting used to. It might fall into the same category (for me) as Cinnamon. More than I need. I think Mate would be more comfortable. But... I'm concerned about it being GTK-2 (and maybe that having an expiration date?).
Last edited by az2008 on Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by smurphos » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:45 am

az2008 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:21 am
I think Mate would be more comfortable. But... I'm concerned about it being GTK-2 (and maybe that having an expiration date?).
MATE is fully migrated to GTK3 since version 1.18.
For custom Nemo actions, useful scripts for the Cinnamon desktop, and Cinnamox themes visit my Github pages.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by catweazel » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:37 am

smurphos wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:48 am
I believe he decided it was easier to port it from GTK2 to QT than from GTK2 to GTK3
GTK3 appears to be very unstable in terms of constant change. What counts, I think, is that LXQt supports the Bouncing Cow screensaver :)
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

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