Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

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trymeout
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Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by trymeout » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:42 pm

I have a Linux computer where all the apps are native Linux apps except for 7-Zip which is a windows app within Wine and games that run within Wine. All the games are games I own and are trusted window applications. I do not use Java, I do not use Adobe Flash. Could I still get infected by something with this setup? Do I need to worry about antivirus?

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Pjotr
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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by Pjotr » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:57 pm

First of all, there's a Linux native 7-zip application available, which doesn't require Wine:

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install p7zip-full
p7zip is the Unix command-line port of 7-Zip, a file archiver that
handles the 7z format which features very high compression ratios.

p7zip-full provides utilities to pack and unpack 7z archives within
a shell or using a GUI (such as Ark, File Roller or Nautilus).

Installing p7zip-full allows File Roller to use the very efficient 7z
compression format for packing and unpacking files and directories.

Additionally, it provides the 7z and 7za commands.

List of supported formats:
- Packing / unpacking: 7z, ZIP, GZIP, BZIP2, XZ and TAR
- Unpacking only: APM, ARJ, CAB, CHM, CPIO, CramFS, DEB, DMG, FAT,
HFS, ISO, LZH, LZMA, LZMA2, MBR, MSI, MSLZ, NSIS, NTFS, RAR (only
if non-free p7zip-rar package is installed), RPM, SquashFS, UDF,
VHD, WIM, XAR and Z.

The dependent package, p7zip, provides 7zr, a light version of 7za,
and p7zip, a gzip-like wrapper around 7zr.
Secondly, having Wine installed means you're vulnerable for Windows malware executables. This is what the Wine developers warn you about:
https://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#Is_Wine_mal ... patible.3F
(items 7.4 and 7.5)

My advice: get rid of Wine and run those Windows games in a Windows VM within VirtualBox. Much safer. :wink:
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MrGrimm
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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by MrGrimm » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:20 pm

wine or not, linux or windows you should have av and firewall just in case.

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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by Pjotr » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:23 pm

MrGrimm wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:20 pm
wine or not, linux or windows you should have av (....) just in case.
Bollocks. AV makes your desktop Linux less secure:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... html#ID1.1
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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by MrGrimm » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:24 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:23 pm
MrGrimm wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:20 pm
wine or not, linux or windows you should have av (....) just in case.
Bollocks. AV makes your desktop Linux less secure:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... html#ID1.1
try again.

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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by Pjotr » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:25 pm

MrGrimm wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:24 pm
Pjotr wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:23 pm
MrGrimm wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:20 pm
wine or not, linux or windows you should have av (....) just in case.
Bollocks. AV makes your desktop Linux less secure:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... html#ID1.1
try again.
I fail to see the need. Do enlighten me, please.
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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by MrGrimm » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:30 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:25 pm
MrGrimm wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:24 pm
Pjotr wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:23 pm

Bollocks. AV makes your desktop Linux less secure:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... html#ID1.1
try again.
I fail to see the need. Do enlighten me, please.
i;m not explaining jack shat to you.

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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by Pjotr » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:32 pm

MrGrimm wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:30 pm
Pjotr wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:25 pm
MrGrimm wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:24 pm


try again.
I fail to see the need. Do enlighten me, please.
i;m not explaining jack shat to you.
Thanks for your almost convincing in-depth explanation. It was very instructive. :lol:
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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by DAMIEN1307 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:35 pm

pjotr is correct...AV on linux systems WILL make your system less secure, more vulnerable to attack...AV is only recommended for linux SERVERS since they are sharing with windows and mac users through things like email etc....they are useless for home linux users since malware attacks found in the wild are not constructed to invade linux systems because they need password/root permissions in order to launch, they do not have this in a linux system, (unless of course you wish to help them by giving it to them), but do not need it in a windows or mac system in order to execute its payload.

AVs are constructed to "hook" into everything in an operating system including "root" which is where the vulnerability can and will exist if used in a linux system, one only needs to attach and compromise the AV thus bypassing a Linux systems built in securities...DAMIEN
ORDO AB CHAO

trymeout
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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by trymeout » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:18 pm

Wow lots of opinions which is what I wanted. I also created this thread on this forum here and the response I got there was to ensure that EXE files will not self execute and instead set EXE default application to be the file manager such as Nemo.

I opened this thread here to get some other opinions. If all I did was set the EXE files to not self execute by setting the default application for EXEs to be the file manager, I should not need an antivirus right? I understand linux and wine is not 100% secure but for my use case which is trusted software and games I should be fine right?

Also I do not like p7zip on linux since it is missing features and 7zip windows version is more user friendly.

https://www.ezeelinux.com/talk/showthread.php?tid=1016

athi
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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by athi » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:07 pm

You still need to use safe browser and document handling practices. Madly clicking links, use of Java or opening document with macros are still not safe.
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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by pbear » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:33 pm

The funny thing about this issue is that no one knows how to guarantee Wine can't be used as a vector for virus/malware attack because the attacks are so rare there's nothing to patch. The disclosure in the Wine FAQ, for example, is based on a single incident twelve years ago. By contrast, Ubuntu has tracked many attacks over the years, but none involved Wine. (Even so, they mention the issue because, well, one has to disclose everything.) Meanwhile, the problem with ClamAV is that it's notorious for false positives, so not worth having IMHO.

FWIW, I have Wine and don't use AV. OTOH, I have good internet habits, run my browser in Firejail and have good data file backups. What I don't do is ask a bunch of strangers to promise me I'll be "fine." There's a remote but nonzero risk. Only you can decide whether you're okay with that.
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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by Pjotr » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:58 am

pbear wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:33 pm
The funny thing about this issue is that no one knows how to guarantee Wine can't be used as a vector for virus/malware attack because the attacks are so rare there's nothing to patch. The disclosure in the Wine FAQ, for example, is based on a single incident twelve years ago.
But are they so rare? I doubt that, given the theoretical ease of infection. Indeed the incident described in the Wine FAQ is old, but then again that FAQ doesn't strive to keep track of new contaminations....

Anyway: everybody can decide for himself whether he wants to take the risk of installing Wine on his Linux boxes. My decision: no way. And I'll keep warning others against it. :mrgreen:
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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by Sir Charles » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:11 am

Pjotr wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:58 am
Indeed the incident described in the Wine FAQ is old, but then again that FAQ doesn't strive to keep track of new contaminations....
Would you please inform us interested in the issue about new cases not covered by the FAQ?
I suppose that's one of the ironies of life, doing the wrong thing at the right moment -C.C.

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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by Pjotr » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:17 am

Sir Charles wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:11 am
Pjotr wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:58 am
Indeed the incident described in the Wine FAQ is old, but then again that FAQ doesn't strive to keep track of new contaminations....
Would you please inform us interested in the issue about new cases not covered by the FAQ?
Well, it doesn't interest me enough to spend time and energy on that.... But feel free to search the web yourself. :wink:
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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by Sir Charles » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:21 am

Pjotr wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:17 am
Sir Charles wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:11 am
Pjotr wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:58 am
Indeed the incident described in the Wine FAQ is old, but then again that FAQ doesn't strive to keep track of new contaminations....
Would you please inform us interested in the issue about new cases not covered by the FAQ?
Well, it doesn't interest me enough to spend time and energy on that.... But feel free to search the web yourself. :wink:
Ah, I see!
Thanks for the reply anyway!
I suppose that's one of the ironies of life, doing the wrong thing at the right moment -C.C.

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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by Pierre » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:56 am

the General Assumption, is that any ./wine installation, will make your Linux System, less secure.
:?
as some-one who does have several ./wine installations, on a few of my PCs,
& there has never been any issues & never any need to install any A/V on either the Linux Host
or in any of those ./wine environments - - none at all.


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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by Flemur » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:04 am

Pjotr wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:58 am
pbear wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:33 pm
The funny thing about this issue is that no one knows how to guarantee Wine can't be used as a vector for virus/malware attack because the attacks are so rare there's nothing to patch. The disclosure in the Wine FAQ, for example, is based on a single incident twelve years ago.
But are they so rare?
I think they're rare to the point of being almost non-existent, or else you'd hear about them and the wine website would be using a newer examples. One big reason, I think, is that people using wine in linux are not the standard dummies who'll run a .exe file that some stranger emailed to them.
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Re: Do I need antivirus if I use Wine?

Post by pbear » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:19 am

Another reason, I think, is that although it's easy to describe the theoretical attack vector in general terms, maybe it's not so easy to execute. Or maybe the bad guys are lazy and stupid. Or maybe it's not considered a worthy target because ultimately there's only so much you one do with a highjacked Linux system. Regardless, if all that were to change next month and the long feared Wanna Cry for Linux Wine virus erupted, I'd shut down, reinstall, copy in my data files from backup and get on with my life. What I don't do is organize my life around avoiding remote risks, in Linux or otherwise.
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