Please NO mono in Mint
Forum rules
Do not post support questions here. Before you post read the forum rules. Topics in this forum are automatically closed 6 months after creation.
Do not post support questions here. Before you post read the forum rules. Topics in this forum are automatically closed 6 months after creation.
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
I would agree
--if anyone wants to do .net type development with C#, they could find their own way. It is not needed for the regular user
http://osdir.com/Article10300.phtml
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25215/1090/1/0/
http://ubuntulinuxhelp.com/mono-in-ubuntu-yes-or-no/
--maybe we will have to remove the Tomboy app and any other dependent apps to prevent this..
In fact if it is avoidable to prevent Microsoft's .net framework being loaded into windows via some of their updates, I would do that as well
--if anyone wants to do .net type development with C#, they could find their own way. It is not needed for the regular user
http://osdir.com/Article10300.phtml
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25215/1090/1/0/
http://ubuntulinuxhelp.com/mono-in-ubuntu-yes-or-no/
--maybe we will have to remove the Tomboy app and any other dependent apps to prevent this..
In fact if it is avoidable to prevent Microsoft's .net framework being loaded into windows via some of their updates, I would do that as well
Last edited by LockBot on Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Topic automatically closed 6 months after creation. New replies are no longer allowed.
Reason: Topic automatically closed 6 months after creation. New replies are no longer allowed.
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
I see this a lot in a lot of different forums.
I'm not a programmer. Two years into using Linux, I'm only starting to wade into the shallow end of the pool of Bash scripting.
I had to go look up what Mono was. I had to read what the .NET framework was all about.
Beyond the usual, knee-jerk reaction of "zOMMFG mICRO$UCK IZ GONNA B IN MY COMPZ NOW WTFBBQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111" that seems prevalent across the entire spectrum of the Linux world, nobody (including OP of this thread and the lone respondent) ever bother to say one thing: Why.
Why not include Mono? Why not include .NET capability?
I don't like that some distros include Evolution as the default mail client, and the the evolution-common and evolution-data-server are so intertwined with Gnome functionality that if you were to remove those packages, you might just as well remove all of Gnome and run your PC from a TTY. So, I just remove the Evolution mail client, install TBird, and call it good.
I don't like the open Java runtime that was all the rage across a couple versions of Ubuntu. (IcedTea, I think they called it?) It didn't work the way it was supposed to, which in my eyes, makes it worth about as much as a petal of piss in the wind. So, I just removed it and installed the Sun JRE, agreed to the license terms, and called it good.
That's the other thing I notice: Many of the people who are knee-jerking "OMFG MONO OMFG .NET I HATE BILL GATEZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!11" don't have any problem installing other proprietary software, agreeing to those license terms, and using them on a daily basis. Java and Flash are two obvious examples. OpenJDK (or whatever it's called) is garbage, and Gnash, while making progress, still isn't a viable replacement for the proprietary version.
So, to stay on topic, I guess my question is as I stated up there: Why? Why not include mono in a base install if it's just going to be a package that can be removed in Synaptic just like anything else? You're already using a version of Linux that installs proprietary (non-free) software as part of it's base install, anyways... What's one more package?
I'm not a programmer. Two years into using Linux, I'm only starting to wade into the shallow end of the pool of Bash scripting.
I had to go look up what Mono was. I had to read what the .NET framework was all about.
Beyond the usual, knee-jerk reaction of "zOMMFG mICRO$UCK IZ GONNA B IN MY COMPZ NOW WTFBBQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111" that seems prevalent across the entire spectrum of the Linux world, nobody (including OP of this thread and the lone respondent) ever bother to say one thing: Why.
Why not include Mono? Why not include .NET capability?
I don't like that some distros include Evolution as the default mail client, and the the evolution-common and evolution-data-server are so intertwined with Gnome functionality that if you were to remove those packages, you might just as well remove all of Gnome and run your PC from a TTY. So, I just remove the Evolution mail client, install TBird, and call it good.
I don't like the open Java runtime that was all the rage across a couple versions of Ubuntu. (IcedTea, I think they called it?) It didn't work the way it was supposed to, which in my eyes, makes it worth about as much as a petal of piss in the wind. So, I just removed it and installed the Sun JRE, agreed to the license terms, and called it good.
That's the other thing I notice: Many of the people who are knee-jerking "OMFG MONO OMFG .NET I HATE BILL GATEZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!11" don't have any problem installing other proprietary software, agreeing to those license terms, and using them on a daily basis. Java and Flash are two obvious examples. OpenJDK (or whatever it's called) is garbage, and Gnash, while making progress, still isn't a viable replacement for the proprietary version.
So, to stay on topic, I guess my question is as I stated up there: Why? Why not include mono in a base install if it's just going to be a package that can be removed in Synaptic just like anything else? You're already using a version of Linux that installs proprietary (non-free) software as part of it's base install, anyways... What's one more package?
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
Several popular applications use mono, including gnome-do, banshee and tomboy, to name a few.
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
@Optimise-Me:
The problem is that Microsoft has been using "Linux uses proprietary components" as part of their sabre-rattling for quite some time. It's feared that Mono will give them a leg to stand on that the courts, who usually don't know any better and are ignorant (as in unknowing) of Microsoft's history, will believe and award to, possibly paving the way towards restricting Linux development in the U.S. Therefore, there are many who would prefer simply to avoid Mono altogether.
The problem is that Microsoft has been using "Linux uses proprietary components" as part of their sabre-rattling for quite some time. It's feared that Mono will give them a leg to stand on that the courts, who usually don't know any better and are ignorant (as in unknowing) of Microsoft's history, will believe and award to, possibly paving the way towards restricting Linux development in the U.S. Therefore, there are many who would prefer simply to avoid Mono altogether.
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
debian decided to stay with mono. Ubuntu will probably stay with mono. I am sure if that is the case Mint will also. Maybe the CE versions can be mono free? At any rate, a few distros, like Fedora, have gone mono free. Just use them. Or else just remove mono from your distro. I really do not see what the big deal is either. MS is pissing into the wind, they will rattle their sabers no matter what anyone else does. Screw them! Who cares?
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
Because it can't be without affecting applications or gnome or other dependent connectionsoptimize me wrote:So, to stay on topic, I guess my question is as I stated up there: Why? Why not include mono in a base install if it's just going to be a package that can be removed in Synaptic just like anything else?
Gnote is a C++ replacement for tomboy, but not included in Mint repositories, and I am a little worried if I remove tomboy, what is mint meta gnome, mint meta main that will also be removed by the package manager (synaptic)
- mint meta main
All the packages installed by default in the Main Edition of Linux Mint. - mint meta gnome
Set of packages common to all Gnome-based editions of Linux Mint.
--then OMG, we know what happens in a few years, it is entrenched Microsoft makes a move against Linux more than they have so far and demands a co-licensing agreement or some similar bondage, and then the Linux distributor is stuck with something not easily expunged..
Last edited by DrHu on Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
Gnote has been in the Community Repo since 0.1.0 and it's at 0.5.0 now, which is the latest version out.DrHu wrote:Gnote is a C++ replacemet for tomboy, but not included in Mint repositories, and I am a little worried if I remove tomboy, what is mint meta gnome, mint meta main that will also be removed by the package manager (synaptic)
http://packages.linuxmint.com/#7community
The main thing I dislike about mono is the space it needs.
If someone doesn't want it they can remove it.
I see no reason for all the hate.
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
Believe it or not, the very first thing I did when I fired up my Mint laptop for the first time after I installed was purge Tomboy (and several other apps I have no use for that come with Ubuntu).DrHu wrote:Gnote is a C++ replacemet for tomboy, but not included in Mint repositories, and I am a little worried if I remove tomboy, what is mint meta gnome, mint meta main that will also be removed by the package manager (synaptic)
Code: Select all
$ dpkg -l | grep mint
ii compiz-check 0.4.5-4-mint2 Script to check if it's possible to run Compiz on your sy
ii firefox 3.0.11+build2+nobinonly-1mint1-0ubuntu0.9.04.1 meta package for the popular mozilla web browser
ii firefox-3.0 3.0.11+build2+nobinonly-1mint1-0ubuntu0.9.04.1 safe and easy web browser from Mozilla
ii firefox-3.0-branding 3.0.11+build2+nobinonly-1mint1-0ubuntu0.9.04.1 Package that ships the firefox branding
ii firefox-3.0-gnome-support 3.0.11+build2+nobinonly-1mint1-0ubuntu0.9.04.1 Support for Gnome in Mozilla Firefox
ii firefox-gnome-support 3.0.11+build2+nobinonly-1mint1-0ubuntu0.9.04.1 meta package pointing to the latest gnome-support package
ii grub-gfxboot 0.97-29-mintz-15 GRand Unified Bootloader
ii gtk2-engines-aurora 1.5.1~pablo1-1mint1 Aurora engine for GTK+ 2.x
ii linuxmint-keyring 2009.04.29 GnuPG key of the Linux Mint repository
ii mint-artwork-gnome 2.5.3 Default artwork for Linux Mint
ii mint-info-main 7.0.3 Necessary information about the Linux Mint release and ed
ii mint-search-addon 2.0 Enhances the results given by Google CSE
ii mintbackup 1.6.2 Home Directory Backup Tool
ii mintdesktop 3.1.3 Desktop configuration tool
ii mintinstall 6.3.5 Software Manager
ii mintmenu 4.7.8 The Linux Mint Menu for Gnome
ii mintnanny 1.3.3 Domain blocker for Linux Mint
ii mintsystem 7.4.8 Linux Mint System Base Package
ii mintupdate 3.7.7 Linux Mint Update Manager
ii mintupload 3.3.4 Uploads files on the Internet
ii mintwelcome 1.2.5 Welcome screen for Linux Mint
ii mintwifi 1.9 Collection of drivers for you to configure your wireless
ii python-apt 0.7.9-0mint1 Python interface to libapt-pkg
ii usplash-theme-mint 7.0.1 Usplash theme for Linux Mint
ii xchat 2.8.6-2.2mint4.1ubuntu4 IRC client for X similar to AmIRC
ii xchat-common 2.8.6-2.2mint4.1ubuntu4 Common files for X-Chat
ii yelp 2.25.1-1mint1-0ubuntu5 Help browser for GNOME 2
In Ubuntu, the first thing I used to do (after ditching Tomboy) was ditch the metapackage ubuntu-desktop. It says it's going to remove all sorts of things, and it looks like if you remove it it's going to wipe out your system, cause the earth to burn, the sky to fall, etc... but it doesn't. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule that more experienced users can point out, but from my experience, most times you can safely remove metapackages without too many adverse effects. You might have to go back and re-install some things manually, but how big a deal is that?
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
OK, I don't want to join the debate... but here are two facts:
- I don't see anything wrong with Mono. I'm open and interested in hearing valid arguments, but I won't give any attention to FUD regarding this technology. I don't care about software patents, about empty threats or about where great ideas originate from.
- I'm thinking about replacing Tomboy Notes with GNote in Linux Mint 8. The last time I looked into it, it seemed faster, lighter and more suitable.
Clem.
- I don't see anything wrong with Mono. I'm open and interested in hearing valid arguments, but I won't give any attention to FUD regarding this technology. I don't care about software patents, about empty threats or about where great ideas originate from.
- I'm thinking about replacing Tomboy Notes with GNote in Linux Mint 8. The last time I looked into it, it seemed faster, lighter and more suitable.
Clem.
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
Meta-packages are nothing else than meta-packages... if you're scared of them, take some time and learn about APT.
I know it's not trivial, but then again, knowing a Debian-based system means understanding APT, not that much too read, and it's very well documented by the Debian project.
Clem.
Code: Select all
apt remove the-unwanted-meta-package
aptitude unmarkauto ~M
aptitude keep-all
Clem.
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
What about the KDE-distros? It seems to me they are less affected by mono-packages...
Perhaps another reason to choose for KDE, specially after hearing the rumours about Gnome 3.0
Perhaps another reason to choose for KDE, specially after hearing the rumours about Gnome 3.0
Linux Mint 17.3 Cinnamon (64 bits)
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
I agree with Clem. As long as Microsoft doesn't say it is illigal, I don't see any problem with using it. For me I couldn't live without : Gnome-Do, Benshee, F-Spot and Tomboy. And all of these are Mono apps. And I will say it, I LOOOVE MONO ! Because if these Mono apps haven't been invented, I would probably be stucked on Windows, but now Windows is no more for me ! And about threats of patents, well, how people today use Flash player on Linux, how do they play DVDs when they use restricted codecs, and so on Really I don't see any difference ! Why Ubuntu 9.10 will have Benshee as default media player ? Let's face it, because it is the BEST media player outhere for Linux ! So for people who don't like Mono, they can switch to Fedora, who doesn't have Mono, but the distribution itself is a *beep* ! All Mono haters, I have to say that most of your talk, makes Mono evil and patenty affraid ! I think that most of you didn't think about it very good ! And I think that most of you have at least one Mono app on your computer, installed flash player and restricted codecs ! I know I am right 99%
At the end, if you want to remove Mono, then remove flash player, remove video codecs, etc. and what you get ? OS that is not usable, at least for me (and I think for most of users) ! So if I am conserned, Mono is not removing and that's it
P.S. for those who doesn't like or don't wonna use Mono, I think it would be good idea to create distribution without Mono ! You can use Linux Mint as base ! And everyone is happy ! You can call it Monofree Linux I am at the same time joking, but for Mono haters it would be great idea !
P.S.S. I get sooooooo bored when I see these Mono topics
At the end, if you want to remove Mono, then remove flash player, remove video codecs, etc. and what you get ? OS that is not usable, at least for me (and I think for most of users) ! So if I am conserned, Mono is not removing and that's it
P.S. for those who doesn't like or don't wonna use Mono, I think it would be good idea to create distribution without Mono ! You can use Linux Mint as base ! And everyone is happy ! You can call it Monofree Linux I am at the same time joking, but for Mono haters it would be great idea !
P.S.S. I get sooooooo bored when I see these Mono topics
Last edited by johonunu on Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
One of the joys about Mint is that Clem & some of the crew, - Don't live in the U.S. of A.
& so don't have to follow those crazy Software Restrictions that the poor souls in the U.S. have to.
There is already a cut-down version of Mint for those in the U.S. to use,
however for those of us in the RoTW - the main version with Everything Installed is the only way .
& so don't have to follow those crazy Software Restrictions that the poor souls in the U.S. have to.
There is already a cut-down version of Mint for those in the U.S. to use,
however for those of us in the RoTW - the main version with Everything Installed is the only way .
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] - when your problem is solved!
and DO LOOK at those Unanswered Topics - - you may be able to answer some!.
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
I wouldn't mind living in the USA... I visited once and I really liked it. Not to mention I'm a big fan of American football... well anyway..Pierre wrote:One of the joys about Mint is that Clem & some of the crew, - Don't live in the U.S. of A.
& so don't have to follow those crazy Software Restrictions that the poor souls in the U.S. have to.
There is already a cut-down version of Mint for those in the U.S. to use,
however for those of us in the RoTW - the main version with Everything Installed is the only way .
The Universal edition isn't all that bad. It comes with an item in the Sound & Video menu, which when you click on it, installs all the missing packages and brings you back to the equivalent of the Main Edition... you just need to click with the mouse really.
Clem.
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
Thanks, but that isn't all a meta package is, sometimes it is META ...(meaning more is packed into it..)clem wrote:Meta-packages are nothing else than meta-packages... if you're scared of them, take some time and learn about APT. I know it's not trivial, but then again, knowing a Debian-based system means understanding APT, not that much too read, and it's very well documented by the Debian project. Clem.
http://blog.olszowka.de/2009/01/22/sett ... a-package/
So when a user sees that a meta package is being removed when you delete/remove a single application, it gives pause..
--even if most of the time meta packages are dummy or transitional packages within a particular distribution,; but not always explained as is the case for Tomboy..
apt remove the-unwanted-meta-package
aptitude unmarkauto ~M
aptitude keep-all
Not entirely sure of that sequence, if I have time I will check..
http://ascending.wordpress.com/2007/04/ ... nmarkauto/
http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Aptitu ... nd_Apt-get
2.2 Global fix of Aptitude's internal database
Tell Aptitude to "keep-all" installed packages. This cancels all scheduled actions on all packages (including installation, removal, or upgrade).
# aptitude keep-all
- T J Tulley
- Level 5
- Posts: 558
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:18 am
- Location: Hull, England
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
I think Pierre has it in one!Pierre wrote:One of the joys about Mint is that Clem & some of the crew, - Don't live in the U.S. of A.
& so don't have to follow those crazy Software Restrictions that the poor souls in the U.S. have to.
There is already a cut-down version of Mint for those in the U.S. to use,
however for those of us in the RoTW - the main version with Everything Installed is the only way .
I'd hate to be without Tomboy - and Compiz is (apart from Mint!) the best thing since sliced bread.
Yours hopefully -
Theo Tulley.
Using a PC with 2GB RAM, 3 hdds and a 1.7 GHz Celeron cpu.
Theo Tulley.
Using a PC with 2GB RAM, 3 hdds and a 1.7 GHz Celeron cpu.
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
Who says we in the US have to follow all the licensing restrictions? Nobody has gone after anything in Linux Mint yet - if they do, I'll uninstall it.
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
There is an awful lot of hate in this thread towards people who don't want to use Mono. I have to say this is one of the more civil discussions I've read, but that doesn't mean it is civil. (Subtle difference, I know.) The people who have suggested it be removed were all quite civil, as are have of the Mono proponents. Good for you all. Then people started bring up prejoritive terms to refer to people who don't want to use Mono. That confused me.
Mono is very large. So large they were going to remove the GIMP to use it in Ubuntu. I fully and strongly support Mono being in MintInstall since it is a dependency. But there is no need to make it a default. Anyone who installs Gnome-Do would automatically download it with Gnome-Do. That's the great thing about the way we do online installations in Linux.
Someone said developers can find their own way to get Mono. That confused me. Shouldn't it be just another package like any other?
Also, it should be trivial to remove Mono. This is acceptable. Just uninstall Tomboy and Mono and your Mono free. And I assume GNote will be mature soon and can be added to the package manager.
Since there is such division on this subject, I would suggest that Mono bo opt in (i.e., when you install TomBoy, Banshee, or F-Spot installMint will download Mono as a dependency) not opt out (as I indicated above). But in either case it should be easy. (I could even invision an install option. Uncheck yes to Mono.)
I honestly haven't checked my distro--and I'm planning on moving to LinuxMint soon. Is it easy to uninstall Mono right now?
Mono is very large. So large they were going to remove the GIMP to use it in Ubuntu. I fully and strongly support Mono being in MintInstall since it is a dependency. But there is no need to make it a default. Anyone who installs Gnome-Do would automatically download it with Gnome-Do. That's the great thing about the way we do online installations in Linux.
Someone said developers can find their own way to get Mono. That confused me. Shouldn't it be just another package like any other?
Also, it should be trivial to remove Mono. This is acceptable. Just uninstall Tomboy and Mono and your Mono free. And I assume GNote will be mature soon and can be added to the package manager.
Since there is such division on this subject, I would suggest that Mono bo opt in (i.e., when you install TomBoy, Banshee, or F-Spot installMint will download Mono as a dependency) not opt out (as I indicated above). But in either case it should be easy. (I could even invision an install option. Uncheck yes to Mono.)
I honestly haven't checked my distro--and I'm planning on moving to LinuxMint soon. Is it easy to uninstall Mono right now?
Re: Please NO mono in Mint
I find it easier to uninstall mono than to find reasons why I would want it to be removed.
Technically speaking you can remove mono and because of dependencies you'll also have to remove tomboy, and the Linux Mint meta-packages.
For reasons not directly related to this topic, gnote will replace tomboy in Linux Mint 8 Helena as the default note-taking application.
Clem.
Technically speaking you can remove mono and because of dependencies you'll also have to remove tomboy, and the Linux Mint meta-packages.
For reasons not directly related to this topic, gnote will replace tomboy in Linux Mint 8 Helena as the default note-taking application.
Clem.