Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

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Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

I'm trying to clone Linux Mint Cinnamon 19.3 64 bit installed on a Samsung 4TB 860 Pro to a Samsung 4TB 860 EVO using Clonezilla. The Pro formats to 3.73TB and the EVO formats to 3.64TB. I can clone from a Pro to a Pro. The first attempt to go from a Pro to an EVO failed because, according to Clonezilla, the target disk was too small. OK, I think, I'll just shrink the data partition (sda4) to make the Pro around 100GB smaller than the EVO. After shrinking (I used Gparted from my live USB stick), I tried again. Nope, Clonezilla stills says the EVO is too small, ignoring that the total partition size of the Pro is now smaller than the EVO.

Any suggestions on how to clone the Pro to the slight smaller EVO? There is way, way more than enough room to fit everything on the Pro onto the EVO. I would just use another Pro but those things are freaking expensive and overkill to use as a backup drive that won't see the use the Pro will.
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by pbear »

This is one of the reasons I prefer file-based backup to image. The semi-official workaround is this one. See also here and here.
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

pbear wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:30 pm
This is one of the reasons I prefer file-based backup to image. The semi-official workaround is this one. See also here and here.
That workaround won't work. It requires reducing partition size on the source disk to make it the same size of smaller than the target disk. I tried that already and it did not work. Also, those directions are for Windows system. Linux does not play by those rules.
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by pbear »

Any problem is insoluble if you try hard enough. Anyhoo, you're grumpy every time I try to help, so I'm going to stop trying. Good luck.
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:33 pm
That workaround won't work. It requires reducing partition size on the source disk to make it the same size of smaller than the target disk. I tried that already and it did not work. Also, those directions are for Windows system. Linux does not play by those rules.
If you are 199.99% certain that size of the partitions in the source image will not extend beyond the end of the destination disk then you can turn off checking sizes in Clonezilla's advanced options. To translate that into plain English, you must have left enough space free at the end of the source disk so that the partitions will fit onto the destination disk. If you haven't done that then, as @pbear said, good luck.

To put it another way, the total size of the source partitions must be less than or equal to the size of the destination disk. This you would only do if you knew about Clonezilla's limitation on restoring partitions. I do it and it works. I have various sized SSDs but always partition them to the same size just for this eventuality.
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by bjmh46 »

I've been using Clonezilla for about 10 years (or more) and I've managed to do what you want to do maybe twice sucessfully, and failed a dozen or more times. For what you want to do (mint 19.3 to mint 19.3 on a slightly smaller drive) I can give you my strategy that has worked for me every time I've done it. First use your mint 19.3 usb stick to install mint 19.3 to the new, smaller drive. Don't allow it to update (you can disable network connection). This takes 5-15 minutes, depending on the computer. Now, clone the boot partition of the larger drive (local part. to part.) to the smaller drive. Now it's just an exercise in resizing partitions to make the sizes compatible with cloning, and going ahead with the cloning. One caution: any time you've resized a partition, be sure to select the fsck option (check) before cloning. Hopefully this gives you a rough outline of a workable solution. There may be other pitfalls due to your particular drive situation, but it's the best I can do with the info I've got.

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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

pbear wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:54 pm
Any problem is insoluble if you try hard enough. Anyhoo, you're grumpy every time I try to help, so I'm going to stop trying. Good luck.
I actually do appreciate you trying to help me and I'm sorry if I came across as grumpy (actually, I am but it's because of my frustration trying and not succeeding to do what should be a simple operation like it was back in Win 7, not you (yes, I know Linux is NOT Windows but I still can't believe there isn't a simple way to do something as simple and basic as cloning a drive, especially since I haven't had this much trouble learning how to do everything else I've tried so far). Keep in mind I started using Linux back in mid December and didn't transition to using it full time until a month ago.

Your first link in your previous post took me to a downloadable PDF (which I did download and read) that I found to be very confusing. It also used Windows systems for examples which was worrisome. I also observed a conflict in that the directions says Clonezilla can clone only one partition at a time yet I was able to clone all partitions at once when I was cloning to an identical drive. I've already spent many hours (over 30 hours total actual cloning time trying to make what I feel should be a much simpler task due to how basic it is so a conflict like that makes me very nervous (keep in mind these are 4TB drives with rougly 1.2TB written to them already).

The second link contained directions involving imaging. Again, 1.2TB of data on a 4TB drive? That would involve twice the time as cloning (which is already long) and would require a third drive. Since I have only two USB 3.0 ports available, that just isn't an option. If I used a USB hub on one of the ports, assuming it passed through enough power to both ports (I do not have any powered USB hubs right now), it would probably double the amount to of time to complete the "clone" which is already going to be twice as long as actual cloning due to the extra step.

The third link describes how to do it for a Windows system.

All, of them require adjusting partition sizes, which I already tried without success.
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

Kadaitcha Man wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:14 am
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:33 pm
That workaround won't work. It requires reducing partition size on the source disk to make it the same size of smaller than the target disk. I tried that already and it did not work. Also, those directions are for Windows system. Linux does not play by those rules.
If you are 199.99% certain that size of the partitions in the source image will not extend beyond the end of the destination disk then you can turn off checking sizes in Clonezilla's advanced options..
Could you please tell me specifically how to do that? The one time I looked in the advanced options, I couldn't make sense of what to check or uncheck (too many options which my mind just blurred into one incomprehensible mess).

There is only a 3% difference between the two sizes (around 90GB) so permanently sizing the slightly large ones down to the size of the smaller ones looks attractive even though, in the future, I'll probably be cloning like this only after setting up Linux on a new-to-Linux portable computer and I need backup drives that are clones (otherwise, imaging would be just fine) and when replacing a drive that has died.
Last edited by Lady Fitzgerald on Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by JerryF »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:01 am
...
Any suggestions on how to clone the Pro to the slight smaller EVO? There is way, way more than enough room to fit everything on the Pro onto the EVO. I would just use another Pro but those things are freaking expensive and overkill to use as a backup drive that won't see the use the Pro will.
Aptik can do what you want. It's a great tool for migrating your settings, data, etc. from one disk to another.

The latest version is 20.02 and is a paid version, but well worth the $25. There is a free version (I think version 18), but it is no longer supported.
  • To use Aptik, you would install the program, then do a complete "backup".
  • Do a fresh install of the same version of Mint onto the EVO.
  • Restore the "backup" onto the EVO.
All your settings, etc. will be in place.

https://teejeetech.in/aptik-3/
IF your problem has been solved, please edit your ORIGINAL post and add [SOLVED] to the beginning of the Subject Line. It helps other members when browsing posts.

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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

bjmh46 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:33 am
I've been using Clonezilla for about 10 years (or more) and I've managed to do what you want to do maybe twice sucessfully, and failed a dozen or more times. For what you want to do (mint 19.3 to mint 19.3 on a slightly smaller drive) I can give you my strategy that has worked for me every time I've done it.
I've actually considered doing something like that but hadn't tried to work out the details. Obviously, a one step procedure would be nice so I could just set it, then sleep on it while it's chugging away but, at this point, I don't care as long as it works and isn't too complicated to wrap my mind around.
bjmh46 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:33 am
...First use your mint 19.3 usb stick to install mint 19.3 to the new, smaller drive. Don't allow it to update (you can disable network connection). This takes 5-15 minutes, depending on the computer...
Is it possible to install Linux from the USB stick to an external USB drive? Or would I need to temporarily swap the drive already in the computer with the smaller one to install Linux from the USB stick, then swap the drives again?
bjmh46 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:33 am
...Now, clone the boot partition of the larger drive (local part. to part.) to the smaller drive. Now it's just an exercise in resizing partitions to make the sizes compatible with cloning, and going ahead with the cloning...
What should I use for cloning? Disks or Gparted from the live Linux USB I used to install Linux (I've read articles or watched videos for using both)? Clonezilla? Something else?
bjmh46 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:33 am
...One caution: any time you've resized a partition, be sure to select the fsck option (check) before cloning...
Hunh? Where do I find that?

If you have read this far, thanks for your patience!
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:57 pm
Could you please tell me specifically how to do that?
... I couldn't make since of what to check or uncheck (too many options which my mind just blurred into one incomprehensible mess).
You are going to make a total mess of all this. Find another option to move your data.
It's pronounced kad-eye-cha, not kada-itcha.

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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

JerryF wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:13 pm
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:01 am
...
Any suggestions on how to clone the Pro to the slight smaller EVO? There is way, way more than enough room to fit everything on the Pro onto the EVO. I would just use another Pro but those things are freaking expensive and overkill to use as a backup drive that won't see the use the Pro will.
Aptik can do what you want. It's a great tool for migrating your settings, data, etc. from one disk to another.

The latest version is 20.02 and is a paid version, but well worth the $25. There is a free version (I think version 18), but it is no longer supported.
  • To use Aptik, you would install the program, then do a complete "backup".
  • Do a fresh install of the same version of Mint onto the EVO.
  • Restore the "backup" onto the EVO.
All your settings, etc. will be in place.

https://teejeetech.in/aptik-3/
I looked at the website because it was mentioned (here, I think) as a way to backup program installations but I found it confusing because of all the settings. I don't mind paying for it but only if I can use it. By do a "complete 'backup'", do you mean "Backup All Items"? Would that include data? If it includes data, how could I exclude that? I prefer to do my data backups using FreeFileSync in Mirror mode (faster with fewer writes since it acts like an incremental backup). This actually looks promising.
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

Kadaitcha Man wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:37 pm
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:57 pm
Could you please tell me specifically how to do that?
... I couldn't make since of what to check or uncheck (too many options which my mind just blurred into one incomprehensible mess).
You are going to make a total mess of all this...
I'm from Missouri (look it up if you don't know what I mean by that). Why?
Kadaitcha Man wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:37 pm
...Find another option to move your data.
Any suggestions, then?
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by JerryF »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:00 pm
...

I looked at the website because it was mentioned (here, I think) as a way to backup program installations but I found it confusing because of all the settings. I don't mind paying for it but only if I can use it. By do a "complete 'backup'", do you mean "Backup All Items"? Would that include data? If it includes data, how could I exclude that? I prefer to do my data backups using FreeFileSync in Mirror mode (faster with fewer writes since it acts like an incremental backup). This actually looks promising.
There is a one-button choice to backup everything, including data. You can also just backup each section using its button.
Click to enlarge
Click to enlarge
You can then restore everything, or if you want, everything except the Home Data.

I would restore everything, then use your FreeFileSync to restore your data if it's more current than what's on the Pro.
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

JerryF wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:10 pm
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:00 pm
...

I looked at the website because it was mentioned (here, I think) as a way to backup program installations but I found it confusing because of all the settings. I don't mind paying for it but only if I can use it. By do a "complete 'backup'", do you mean "Backup All Items"? Would that include data? If it includes data, how could I exclude that? I prefer to do my data backups using FreeFileSync in Mirror mode (faster with fewer writes since it acts like an incremental backup). This actually looks promising.
There is a one-button choice to backup everything, including data. You can also just backup each section using its button.
Shutter_004.jpg

You can then restore everything, or if you want, everything except the Home Data.

I would restore everything, then use your FreeFileSync to restore your data if it's more current than what's on the Pro.
Thanks for the explanation. This keeps looking better and better. I have another question I asked earlier (inquisitive old broad, aren't I?). Is it possible to install Linux to an external drive (the EVO, in this case) from a live USB stick plugged into my computer or would I need to remove the Pro currently in the computer, install the EVO, install Linux, then uninstall the EVO and replace it with the original Pro before using Aptik to backup all but /home data on the Pro and "restore" to the EVO plugged in as an external drive?

Also, is Aptik partition size sensitive like Clonezilla?
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by JerryF »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:05 pm
...

Thanks for the explanation. This keeps looking better and better. I have another question I asked earlier (inquisitive old broad, aren't I?). Is it possible to install Linux to an external drive (the EVO, in this case) from a live USB stick plugged into my computer or would I need to remove the Pro currently in the computer, install the EVO, install Linux, then uninstall the EVO and replace it with the original Pro before using Aptik to backup all but /home data on the Pro and "restore" to the EVO plugged in as an external drive?

Also, is Aptik partition size sensitive like Clonezilla?
Yes, you can install to an external drive (the EVO) without needing to remove the Pro, just making sure the bootloader is put on that drive, instead of another.

To further illustrate:

Do a fresh install of the same version of Mint onto the EVO.
Boot using the Pro and install Aptik, then do a complete "backup".
Boot from the EVO and install Aptik.
Restore the "backup" by selecting the Pro as the backup/restore path, then restore each section separately (sans Home Data) onto the EVO.

No, Aptik doesn't "clone", it stores everything as files, and has different compression levels to choose from in the options.
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

JerryF wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:34 pm
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:05 pm
...

Thanks for the explanation. This keeps looking better and better. I have another question I asked earlier (inquisitive old broad, aren't I?). Is it possible to install Linux to an external drive (the EVO, in this case) from a live USB stick plugged into my computer or would I need to remove the Pro currently in the computer, install the EVO, install Linux, then uninstall the EVO and replace it with the original Pro before using Aptik to backup all but /home data on the Pro and "restore" to the EVO plugged in as an external drive?

Also, is Aptik partition size sensitive like Clonezilla?
Yes, you can install to an external drive (the EVO) without needing to remove the Pro, just making sure the bootloader is put on that drive, instead of another.

To further illustrate:

Do a fresh install of the same version of Mint onto the EVO.
Boot using the Pro and install Aptik, then do a complete "backup".
Boot from the EVO and install Aptik.
Restore the "backup" by selecting the Pro as the backup/restore path, then restore each section separately (sans Home Data) onto the EVO.

No, Aptik doesn't "clone", it stores everything as files, and has different compression levels to choose from in the options.
Thanks for the response! I spent time this evening after my TV shows were over to redoing my original, not so good, cheat sheet on how to install Mint (I had found only one video on how to do it and even that was a bit of a pain to follow because it didn't have any narration). I've successfully installed Mint on UEFI only twice before and my memory isn't all that great.

I'll be trying to do the install onto the EVO tomorrow when I'm wider awake. Also, since I have back trouble--a yellow streak running down it (another way of saying I'm a coward)---I'm going to pull the SSD currently in the computer and replace it with the EVO for the new installation (it takes only 5-10 minutes to do the swap, depending on how good my concentration is and how bad my hands are shaking; old age sucks; it will also make it easier to check to see if I installed it correctly). Then, after swapping the disks again, I'll pony up for Aptik, download it, and see if I can use it correctly.

Methinks I was not clear when I asked if Aptik was partition sized like Clonezilla. I did not mean to imply Aptik was cloning. I'm guessing it is more like imaging in function except it's (probably) proprietary. Clonezilla is extremely sensitive to partition and disk size whether you are cloning or imaging. I was just wondering if Aptik needed for partitions to be the exact size when "restoring" to a partition on a different disk or if allows a bit of leeway (as long as the data will still fit). I'm asking just to see how religiously I need to size the partitions.
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by cliffcoggin »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:13 am

Thanks for the response! I spent time this evening after my TV shows were over to redoing my original, not so good, cheat sheet on how to install Mint (I had found only one video on how to do it and even that was a bit of a pain to follow because it didn't have any narration). I've successfully installed Mint on UEFI only twice before and my memory isn't all that great.
If it's Youtube guidance on installation that you want try Joe Collins. Clear diction, detailed pictures, and just the right amount of explanation for newcomers. I relied almost solely on his advice when I changed to Linux.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTfabO ... sDF4POBVqA
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Re: Cloning to a Slightly Smaller Drive with Clonzilla

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

cliffcoggin wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:29 am
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:13 am

Thanks for the response! I spent time this evening after my TV shows were over to redoing my original, not so good, cheat sheet on how to install Mint (I had found only one video on how to do it and even that was a bit of a pain to follow because it didn't have any narration). I've successfully installed Mint on UEFI only twice before and my memory isn't all that great.
If it's Youtube guidance on installation that you want try Joe Collins. Clear diction, detailed pictures, and just the right amount of explanation for newcomers. I relied almost solely on his advice when I changed to Linux.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTfabO ... sDF4POBVqA
Thanks! I'm already familiar with Joe Collins and often recommend him and his forum (in addition to this one). However, the only video I found of his for installing Linux Mint 10 was for a legacy installation (an excellent one, btw!), not for UEFI installations. I first started out with a 2TB SSD using his video (which made that first time far less daunting than it would have been otherwise) but I needed more capacity than 2TB so I searched high and low for a usable video or written directions for UEFI installations and, at the time, only this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaK1Birq0xM), which I had downloaded and hung onto, was useable on a 15" screen (and that was just barely).
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